Sahm and finances..

[Namechange452]

Been with dh 7 years, married for 2 and have 2 preschool aged children, been sahm since eldest was born. Prior to this I never had a ‘career’ as such but always worked full time and it was a joint decision for me to not return to work until the children were school age.
School age is approaching and have been thinking of starting to look at part time positions but having discussed this with dh he has made it clear that is fine as long as
A. It doesn’t affect him in anyway
B. I pay for any childcare necessary to make the hours work (breakfast club, childminder etc)

Alongside this, I really resent the way our finances are regarded at present (and is part of the reason for returning to work) dh earns approx 70k a year, no joint finances or bank account and I have to ask for money as and when I need it. I’m not really allowed any input or insight into our (his!!) incomings and outgoings and he sees this as his money and not ‘family’ money as he earns it and everything is paid for.

I really hate this setup and feel very undervalued and naive. We have zero savings although a decent income and I would love to know where and how all his money is spent! He is completely against a joint account, even if I was working as in his words ‘why should I benefit from his hard work..’ given I would earn a lot less. He does work hard, and very long hours, but I just never expected a marriage to be like this..tell me if I’m wrong!!
I hate asking for money like a child, and I feel like i am poor whilst he is quite well off, although mortgage and bills are paid for obviously.
He cannot see my point of view at all and returning to work to have some financial independence seems pointless when at least half will be paid on childcare (out of my sole earnings)
What does everyone else do? Is this normal?

Similar situation - DH is a very high earner. I took 5 years to look after DC. In that time, I had to ask for money (I’d get 400 quid every 5-6 weeks). I kid you not. It’s not that he wouldn’t give me more money if I asked but it was desperately humiliating. We are now getting divorced. I was never his equal. Now that I earn my own money, it is so liberating that I can buy whatever I want without rationing until the next handout.

"He thinks I am lucky as everything is paid for and he gives me money as and when I ask for it"

"Great! I need you to set up a standing order into my personal bank account then of £1500 per month."

No? Then you're not getting unlimited money as and when, are you?
If hes not going to give you that then you may as well go for working full-time and splitting the childcare responsibilities 50/50. No, he doesn't like that either? So, what DOES he propose to get you out of this unworkable asking-for-pocket-money situation? If his answer is "no changes, everything carries on as it is" then take that as equal to "you must get your own full-time job".

Honestly, the fact you don't know where any of it goes and you have no family savings is really concerning to me - its clearly going somewhere and quite possibly funding another woman or building a lovely huge hidden divorce cushion for him for later.

Its no surprise to me that hes generally laid-back - hes got everything exactly as he wants it and all to his own advantage, and thinks there's nothing you can do to change it, of COURSE hes laid back!

It’s not normal and it’s financial abuse!

So I presume you’ll now be looking at how much 24x7 365 childcare costs, and you’ll be providing him with an invoice each month! Then you can split the monthly bills - job done

There's probably a reason why he doesn't want you to have access to the account op. Either it's because he's hoarding money or he's spending it somehow. Either way, it doesn't look good. I would demand to be added to his bank account and if he refuses make sure that you tell family and friends if you can. It's not normal op, being a sahm is a hard job and you should be respected by your other half for doing that role for your family.

24x7 365 childcare costs, and you’ll be providing him with an invoice

That invoice would be incorrect as it omits compensation for lack of earnings.

Joys,

Umm, no, that is far from correct. It would have to be either childcare or loss of earnings. In addition, I am sure that the OP does not care for them 24/7. Her husband does some child care and they do sleep.

‘Wife work’ can be undervalued but it can also be overvalued. Which is why (IMO) both partners should do some paid work and some childcare.

Clearly, if you have given up a stellar career to look after children, then your loss of earnings is considerable. If you never wanted to work and just had ‘a job’ then it is far less.

Wow. You need a joint account now.
He puts in a % and you put in a % (when you are working)

And no matter what that percentage, anything family related comes out of that account. Anything personal like getting your hair or nails done comes from your personal account.

(I appreciate you are not currently working. So my idea is rather simplistic) can you work school hours (perhaps as a TA?)

Earning a little money will give you freedom. But your husband needs to change his attitude

@larrygrylls loss of earnings is accumulative if you're out of the work place. Also 'Wifework' is not just childcare. IMO it is far more often undervalued than overvalued both in a societal way and in a practical, monetary way.

You are clear that you don't think people should SAH but the idea that because you can't put numbers on its advantages each partner should work in and out of the home is not logical. What if eg one person's job is child care?

Mook,

The problem, again as I see it, is that both partners often seem to feel undervalued in the 'traditional' arrangement. The WOHP feels that their (often substantial) monetary contribution buys them no say over their home and family, whilst the SAHP feels that they are not 'equally' valued as a decision maker over finances.

In addition, when people get divorced (as 40% do) the need for both partners to have enough skills to become employed and earn a wage is very important.

In the old days, the SAHP partner took pride in making a beautiful home and that was their domain and finances etc and providing was the WOHP domain, including all decisions about that. Nowadays, lines are blurred, maybe rightly so. However, that can lead to exploitation in either direction.

My own experiences (thanks to a wealthy demographic) is women willingly giving up careers in return for a few years hard work (the preschool years) followed by many years of following hobbies and making their personal fitness into a life goal, aided by plenty of paid help around the home. The WOHP parent, on the other hand, is expected to just provide for this increasingly expensive lifestyle and also to do equal child/house care when actually at home.

Reading these boards, I understand that this is far from typical (though I am convinced it is within a certain demographic) and there are many lazy men who feel that bringing in even a relatively small wage is the be all and end all of what they need to do.

As I said upthread, each relationship is unique and, if both parties feel it works, then that is great. No one can tell someone else what will make them happy. However, I think many SAHP sleepwalk into their middle age when the children will have long flown then nest. Then what are they going to do, having failed to maintain workplace skills?

"I don’t want to leave him, just for things to be different".

You are basiucally now unequal, trapped and controlled. He won't want to change that. He gets what he wants out of this but what about you here?.

The above scenario will not ever happen. I would also think he is not solely financially abusive either. Does he put you down in other more subtle ways too, e.g verbal put downs?. He holds all the cards here and your power and control in this relationship has been surrendered to him. He knows this and uses money to control you further.

I would also think he will actively sabotage any attempts you make to resume paid work, this is par for the course with such men.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What is in this for you?

Would you want your children to have a relationship like this?. No you would not. So stop showing them that this treatment from your so called H is acceptable to you on any level. After all they are also learning about relationships from you as well as their dad.

This link could be helpful to you as well:-

www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/support-for-women/financial-abuse/

You need to plan your exit from this relationship and I never ever write such things lightly.

Larry I think traditionally a wife would have been in charge of managing the household finances. I'm not saying that to disagree with you but because I think the model the OP is living in is not even based on the traditional sahp model.

I do see the logic of your latest argument. I know the type of sahp you're talking about but I don't think it's universal or even common. Additionally I tend to think that people present the lifestyle image they want to and you are most likely not seeing the whole picture.

I also think that a SAHP is useful once the kids are at school for a few reasons. The school day is short and the holidays are long. There are things to be involved with at school. Parenting older kids is in a large part being around IMO. Unfortunately, being available can look like not doing anything much.

I'm not really arguing that people should become SAHP and I agree with you that sahp do need to keep skills current etc. But I am saying it has value even if the casual observer can't see it - value that you would be paying some of if there wasn't a SAHP and some of which is actually unpurchasable but still of value.

I used to be a sahm and was in a similar position.
I earned a good wage before children and it was a joint decision that I would stay home.

I knew my husband was on a decent wage but never really knew how much. Before kids we both contributed to bills and after kids he transferred an amount into the joint account every month for bills plus an amount each week for groceries and my fuel etc, which I withdrew and managed.
My husband is a nice guy but he didn’t want to be controlled financially. He saw it that he provided and the rest was none of my business.

I didn’t like this arrangement but I did consider myself lucky that I was able to stay at home with my children and I did have a hard- working husband.
It all got turned upside down however when I accidentally opened a credit card statement showing he owed thousands.
I totally lost my shit and demanded he give me access to all his financial affairs.
He was overdrawn on 2 accounts to the tune of a further few thousand.
I told him he either handed over all financial affairs to me there and then or I was off.
I made him sell a classic car which was financed, paid off half the debt and arranged a loan to cover the rest.

Now his wages get paid into a joint account and I leave enough in there to cover the bills plus money to cover his fuel and any small grocery runs he might need to pay for.
He gets cash pocket money to spend as he wishes. I think he is relieved that I manage it all now as frankly, he was shit at it.

I now have a part time job, my kids are high school age, I save money, we have foreign holidays etc

Put your foot down x

My own experiences (thanks to a wealthy demographic) is women willingly giving up careers in return for a few years hard work (the preschool years) followed by many years of following hobbies and making their personal fitness into a life goal, aided by plenty of paid help around the home. The WOHP parent, on the other hand, is expected to just provide for this increasingly expensive lifestyle and also to do equal child/house care when actually at home.

That is not what's happening here. Keep it relevant and leave your own issues and projections at the door. Why aren't you capable of reading a story about a woman who is being exploited and financially abused without bringing up utterly irrelevant alternative situations?

If you didn't like being the sole earner, you shouldn't have agreed for your wife to stay home.

So, the OP appears to have gone quiet. I hope she's ok.

What if there is an emergency? Say you need to go the hospital and pay expensive car parking? He is away and you have no cards and not enough cash. This isnt goid for you and the kids.