Sahm and finances..

[Namechange452]

Been with dh 7 years, married for 2 and have 2 preschool aged children, been sahm since eldest was born. Prior to this I never had a ‘career’ as such but always worked full time and it was a joint decision for me to not return to work until the children were school age.
School age is approaching and have been thinking of starting to look at part time positions but having discussed this with dh he has made it clear that is fine as long as
A. It doesn’t affect him in anyway
B. I pay for any childcare necessary to make the hours work (breakfast club, childminder etc)

Alongside this, I really resent the way our finances are regarded at present (and is part of the reason for returning to work) dh earns approx 70k a year, no joint finances or bank account and I have to ask for money as and when I need it. I’m not really allowed any input or insight into our (his!!) incomings and outgoings and he sees this as his money and not ‘family’ money as he earns it and everything is paid for.

I really hate this setup and feel very undervalued and naive. We have zero savings although a decent income and I would love to know where and how all his money is spent! He is completely against a joint account, even if I was working as in his words ‘why should I benefit from his hard work..’ given I would earn a lot less. He does work hard, and very long hours, but I just never expected a marriage to be like this..tell me if I’m wrong!!
I hate asking for money like a child, and I feel like i am poor whilst he is quite well off, although mortgage and bills are paid for obviously.
He cannot see my point of view at all and returning to work to have some financial independence seems pointless when at least half will be paid on childcare (out of my sole earnings)
What does everyone else do? Is this normal?

I don’t want to leave him, just for things to be different.

I really am not saying LTB, OP, but honestly this is why people end up divorcing. It isn't a big thing it is just they want things to be different and they aren't and they can't live with it.

This is your one life. Do you want to live it like a particularly constrained teenager with no access to money? Your children have already subliminally taken in the message that daddy can buy things if he wants to but mummy can't. And so it goes on ....

Is this a dealbreaker for you? if so you need to tell your husband. Is this something that will make you respect him less and like him less - if so you need to tell him.

What exactly is he laid-back about? toys on the carpet? What is for dinner? This is more important than anything. It is about how he sees you within the marriage - how he sees marriage itself ("why should you benefit from my hard work" is the absolute antithesis of marital love ime - my dh - and I - think that everything we do is for the benefit of each other because we love each other)

OP, I would go to counselling by myself first if I were you. See how that goes and take it from there. He is not being good or nice or easy going or laid back - know that.

I just can't understand why women in the 21st century put up with this shit. He's supposed to be your partner, not your dad giving you pocket money! Why doesn't he think he should contribute to paid child care for his own kids? He is valuing your contribution at zero., no wonder you are unhappy! I wouldn't be able to put up with such a tight fisted 1950s controlling arsehole, but your mileage my vary. How can you love someone who clearly doesn't value or respect you? And didn't you discuss this before getting married?

with regard to the 1950s references ..

My mum and dad married in the 1950s. My mum had to give up her job (civil service marriage bar). First paycheck my dad got he handed it to her. She said she kind of knew he would do it but was relieved nonetheless that he was just like her dad - who had married her mum in the 1900s and did the same - treated his wife as an equal partner in their life's endeavours - and possibly better than him at budgeting.

This isn't about being old-fashioned. It is about deeply held beliefs about women, their worth, and how you value work. So OP either out-earns him or equals him earnings (and I suspect he may have other issues with that scenario) or accept he will never see her contribution to the family as equal to his.

To be fair though pallisers, while some people have always had equal marriages, this kind of thing was far more common in the 50s. There are always exceptions to every rule, but I am always surprised that anyone puts up with this nonsense now.

Op, he DOES get it. It’s not a problem with his brain.

He knows full well that you don’t like it and that he’s being controlling. It’s just HE DOESNT CARE what you think or feel. He enjoys controlling you and that’s all that matters.

And no, it wouldn’t be different if you earned the same as him.

And yes, when you go back to work he will refuse to accommodate your work while expecting you to 100% accommodate his. He won’t share the school runs or pick up the kids or take time off when they are sick.

And when you are stressed by working part time and doing 100% of the childcare AND housework AND wife work, he will smile smugly and say

“ well this is what you wanted isn’t it ? I knew you wouldn’t cope. I work 45 hours a week and you can’t even cope with 25 “.

I couldn't live like this.

At the very least he should be giving you an allowance so that you can manage your own budget and small savings. Even then id want to know the ins and outs of our finances.

I am currently a SAHP due to an international move. My DH doesn't want me have a paid job that will impact on family life. BUT. He has never expected me to pay for after school, breakfast club, just to organise it ! I have a credit card, I tell DH how much money I need each month to pay it off. We sit down together and discuss life finances. Your DH is behaving this badly because you are letting him, you would be better off divorced, does he realise this? I would tell him this the next time he refused to treat you like an adult he is in a partnership with.

I'm trying to imagine a life in which my dh has to ask me every time he needs extra money for a haircut and I would like that he has to do that. It actually makes me kind of sick to think of that.

OP, this is awful.

I am 25 years married and have 3 children and frankly when I had 2 preschoolers, we hadn't even begun to plumb the depths to which life would lead us - deaths of parents, estrangement from family members, issues with kids, the teen years. There are difficult times ahead and your husband does NOT regard you as a team rowing together for the family good.

We could not have survived what we did if we weren't on the same side. If we didn't like, love and respect each other more than anyone else. Because we did these years weren't impossible but instead while they were hard at times they were basically joyful and funny and loving. How will it work for you when he is clearly on one team and you and your children are on another?

This is such a red flag. The best advice my mother gave me is never marry a mean man or a jealous man. You have married a mean man.

This is financial abuse, he may not think so as he provides but it is in his terms. You don't appear to see this as financial abuse either. If you left him you would be in a better financial position. You need to sit down together and write out all the out goings and have him pay money into your account for you. You should access to the money left over for incidentals. If you did work and paid for the childcare the remaining money, who would benefit from this. Him is my bet !

Do you receive Child Benefit so you are covered for NI contributions whilst you are out of work op ?

My dh has always been quite tight. He’s an accountant but I have access to our joint account, I spend what I need to. We’ve had issues with any left over money going into his isa and not mine but I have access to money. I also don’t think he truly realises I facilitate his career. He earns similar to your dh. I work at home part time and two of our children have special needs so I needed to be at home. But what he’s doing is very controlling.

You need to be equally firm and say it cannot continue like this. You need to mean it! At present you’re letting him dictates the terms and conditions. He’s only doing it because you let him.

OP - this is not on at all. Please listen to all the good advice. This is financial abuse.

that's really controlling. You must feel so stressed and upset.
I don't understand how he cant see the children HAVE to be looked after and the 'cost' of that is 50% his.

I work part-time around the children, but my DH pays for ALL the childcare we do need as he says i've already paid by doing most of it.

There are two sides to this.

You should have reasonable access to spending money (e.g new clothes) without having to ask.

However, if he is working for the good of the family, then he should also have some say over decisions regarding his children and his home. You say he feels he has no control over that area. Why?

There are really two ways of doing things: everything is a joint decision or a couple split responsibility over different areas of life. How people do this is personal and what works for one couple does not necessarily work for another.

The important thing is both parties have enough autonomy over all areas of their life. It creeps into control or, in extreme cases abuse, if one party lives a completely different lifestyle to the other.

In your case, it sounds like you want to work, and your husband should facilitate this. Childcare costs should be shared to give you both enough spending money. You also need to allow your husband more input into the home and children, if this is a genuine desire of his (and not just an excuse).

M0rven your comments really do ring true with me, it’s a given if I worked he would not help with school pick ups, cooking, kids etc during the week as he’s simply not here. Although I have to say he is very hands on with children on the weekend and adores them.
I feel abit trapped in the situation until the children are older as I don’t want a high flying career particularly as he works so much, someone has to be here and it makes sense that’s me. He has said if I want to work then do it but it’s the logistics of it all I would have to sort alone for very little financial gain right now.
When I put the potential wage I could earn part time to him and suggested it all going into one account, he said he didn’t want half of my money which obviously really isn’t what I meant. It’s just very much that would be yours, and his is his

This is a joke right?
He earns more than me and my OH put together and he is taking you for a fool.
Of course he should pay childcare! He's living the life of Riley here! Do you ever get time away from the children for yourself?
Yes where is his your money going!
I bet you have his tea ready and kids all sorted when he gets home from his long day earning himself money too.

What an arse!

Why do you want to go back to work OP?

Might just be worthwhile writing all this down for him, op and emailing it to him. Ill give him the benefit of the doubt for a moment and say that maybe he just hasn't thought this through.

First explain to him that your financial future (as well as your present) is being very seriously compromised by his behaviour. If and when you do go back to work you could find yourself pretty low on the career ladder. If anything happened to him or you split up at some point in the future, you may well find yourself with limited opportunities and stuck in a low earning job, while he - on the back of your support - will be flying.
He also needs to think about your pension situation. He will have built up a good amount of money in his, but - if you continue like this - you may not even qualify for the basic state pension.

I would definitely think about going back to work, even if it means working for little money at the moment. Might also be worth taking a bit of a longer view and starting to retrain for something that will provide you with a good income in the future.

Whatever you decide, you need to get him to realise that his selfishness and lack of concern for you could make your life exceptionally difficult in the future.

I’m not really sure what he means by having little control in other aspects of life, I presume Home and children because what else is there? I will bring this up though. I do tend to make the decisions about the children I guess, but that’s because he’s not here and they aren’t big things just everyday things like routines, bedtimes, rules etc but maybe I’m missing something so I will discuss this again with him.
Although just because that’s my role within our family which isn’t unusual I don’t think, it shouldn’t mean I have zero control over finances should it

What a horrible, entitled and selfish man. Divorce him - at least he will have to cough up then.

If you want to stay with him them you need a joint account for household and other joint expenses NOW. Any childcare costs would come out of that .

You also need complete openness about his income , savings and pension

You need equality on this . If he won’t do a joint Account for saving then then you need the same amount in yours. If he has a pension then you need to start putting money into yours.

You need to tackle this issues head on now . Getting a job in itself won’t fix his bad attitudes.

All that will happen is that he will live confortably on his one job paid £70k with free childcare and domestic staff. And you and the kids will struggle on £15k plus childcare costs and you will be exhausted doing 3 part time jobs - paid work , parent and housekeeper .

Are you prepared for this to be a deal breaker ? I sueoct that if you do nothing now you will end up hating him and leave anyway .

Good post, Morven.

Think seriously about retraining op, or trying to get your foot back on a professional ladder in some way. I think, unfortunately, that you need to prepare yourself for the worst possible scenario here, as you just can't trust this man to have your back.

I feel I should add that he is great in all other aspects, he’s not lazy with the children, is very hands on and does take them out on the weekends sometimes gives me a break but regarding finances he is very adamant that there is just no need for me to be involved or have any control as he works, he pays and I do not. And even if I did, if it’s not to a point where it’s an equal ish figure and I would start splitting bills etc then there is no point in anything being joint.