Sahm and finances..

[Namechange452]

Been with dh 7 years, married for 2 and have 2 preschool aged children, been sahm since eldest was born. Prior to this I never had a ‘career’ as such but always worked full time and it was a joint decision for me to not return to work until the children were school age.
School age is approaching and have been thinking of starting to look at part time positions but having discussed this with dh he has made it clear that is fine as long as
A. It doesn’t affect him in anyway
B. I pay for any childcare necessary to make the hours work (breakfast club, childminder etc)

Alongside this, I really resent the way our finances are regarded at present (and is part of the reason for returning to work) dh earns approx 70k a year, no joint finances or bank account and I have to ask for money as and when I need it. I’m not really allowed any input or insight into our (his!!) incomings and outgoings and he sees this as his money and not ‘family’ money as he earns it and everything is paid for.

I really hate this setup and feel very undervalued and naive. We have zero savings although a decent income and I would love to know where and how all his money is spent! He is completely against a joint account, even if I was working as in his words ‘why should I benefit from his hard work..’ given I would earn a lot less. He does work hard, and very long hours, but I just never expected a marriage to be like this..tell me if I’m wrong!!
I hate asking for money like a child, and I feel like i am poor whilst he is quite well off, although mortgage and bills are paid for obviously.
He cannot see my point of view at all and returning to work to have some financial independence seems pointless when at least half will be paid on childcare (out of my sole earnings)
What does everyone else do? Is this normal?

I don't get it. What do you do if you want something for you... A new book or clothes or haircut etc. Do you have to ask him if it's ok for you to have it and he gives you the cash?

Yes pretty much

Sod that, id leave him. He's a wanker.

My ex was similar, told me he should take control of the finances because I wouldn't be working and contributing so why should I get free reign of the money. He also said "why should I go to work, pay all the bills and be skint just so you can sit on your ass all day with our son and have it easy"

Thank fuck he's now my ex!

I would find that really difficult OP so getting a job would be better as you could choose what to do with your own money. When he says you would have to pay for childcare is that because he doesn't expect you to contribute any money to the bills etc?

So the only access to money you have is cash your dh decides to give you. God you must be so frustrated to be living like this as an adult.

Seriously OP, I know you think it is important to have a parent at home with your children but it is probably more important for them to have a mother who is happy and a mother and father who have a decent relationship. You will seethe with resentment if this continues. He may change his mind - but you can't change it for him. The only thing you can change is your own role in this. You can go back to work. you can earn. You can take opportunities to increase your earnings. You can insist that he pay for childcare (simply refuse to contribute to other things if he doesn't).

Yes pretty much

I don't mean to sound horrible, but how on earth can you feel sexually attracted to someone who would treat you like this? My libido would be dead in the water if I had to ask dh for money for a haircut while running about all day minding our children (I went back to work because being home with small children was the hardest work I have ever done).

Tell him you are so unhappy with the set up, that if things don’t change you will divorce him. It’s the only way and be prepared to see it through.

Because of this mentality he sees no reason whatsoever for us to have a joint bank account

Well I assume you do things for him? Cooking shopping cleaning etc?

These things add up!

Cleaning £10 per hour
Ironing £2 a shirt
Cooking £10 per meal
Child care £8 per hour /2
Shopping £8 per hour
Admin £15 per hour

DD it up and present him with the bill

Would he be able to hold down a 70k job and have two kids without you and without paying for childcare? No.

Would he get meals cooked, his house cleaned and his washing done (presumably) without paying for it if it wasn't his wife doing it? No.

Are you entitled to be treated as an adult who is contributing to the financial unit of your family? Yes. Yes!!

What about your pension? What do you do if he dies suddenly? What if you just fancy a fucking hair cut without requesting permission?

In our house I was a sahm until recently and everything went in the same pot. We each get personal money a month and the rest is spent together.

And as for 'nothing changes' and he will permit you to work part time and pay for child care? Fuck that!! If you left him he would be legally obliged to pay you more.

He may not realise he's being a selfish, controlling dinosaur but he is, I'm afraid.

I was the same for years op. I hated it. It made me ill in the long term and my confidence was down to nothing. I found finding part time work to cover childcare impossible. For the last 4 months I've been working full-time and I completely love it!I feel like a new women. Ive got a social life. My wardrobe is being renewed. I feel smarter, independent and more myself. My hair gets cut every 8 weeks instead of once a year. Were still sorting finances out but I've dug my heels in this time and told him if were both working full-time we share all costs equally based on earning %. He earns twice what I do so he will pay 2 thirds of everything. My dh has had a huge shock but it's doing him good and he's realising how undermining my life has been.

I would do things very differently if I had my time again.

The type of jobs I was potentially looking at that might work would only have me earning around £800 a month part time, anything up to half that could go on childminder for youngest depending on how hours worked so obviously he wouldn’t expect me to contribute to anything he already pays for but in paying all childcare I’m not sure it’s worth it.
Someone asked before, yes I would still do all cooking, cleaning, child related things as before regardless as he is simply not really here during the week

No he's really mean and controlling I take that back
I would want money in my account
And I wouldn't ask permission for normal stuff like nails.
I do nails every 2 weeks same with eyebrows and lip
Subbed whenever I want
Hair whenever I want and whatever I want
Eat out a few times a week

Don't ever ever ever ask for permission.
I thought he was popping money in your account.
He's tight

And I know it has to make financial sense for a sahp to go back to work unless it’s for social/sanity reason but we would still be a couple hundred better off each month as a ‘family’ but not really if HIS income remains unchanged whether I work or not and I work, juggle, ferry kids, cook, clean, etc etc for £100 a week
Is this unreasonable thinking?

Nobody has said it's unreasonable for a sahp to go to work.

No, OP. It's not fair.

You would have access to more money if you were a single parent. I'm not telling you to ltb, I'm just stating a fact.

HE needs to listen to you.

No

You need to make a list of out goings - everything - include childcare and one odd payments like car tax or unexpected bills and holidays kids shoes etc

Then see what's left over % goes into savings and the rest is split equally

He then steps up for childcare and house work also split equally over the weekend

Totally completely unacceptable. Did you ever formally agree to be the unpaid skivvy in your relationship? Childcare costs are shared, anything else would honestly end my relationship. He doesn’t value you working and he doesn’t value you staying at home but it does suit him. A bit like a washing machine , you rely on it, pay for it but certainly don’t respect it. I would tell him I can’t make you either care about my happiness or pay for your children’s childcare but I can’t promise our marriage will survive your lack of caring and respect.

I would go back to work op and start building your career. You're going to need it as I can't see his mindset changing and your love for him will completely die.

Have you thought about splitting and if so, how much you'd be entitled to from him and from the estate?

@Mookatron said everything I was about to say!

You are not in a healthy situation. The present setup means that you can never be spontaneous or take advantage of a bargain.
What about internet shopping?....presumably you can’t buy anything from amazon or eBay either? It all sounds very last century.
Does he have any siblings or friends who he might compare with to see that your setup is not right.
You are a team. It’s not his money, it is the family’s money.if you divorce, he will have to give you half!
If I was in your shoes, as a starting point I would insist on an account that would have a certain amount of money put into it every month to run the home and pay for whatever you need. I would also insist on access to an amazon account to buy whatever you need. He would easily be able to see that you aren’t going mad with either.
If he refuses I can’t really see how you can stay in such a controlling relationship for anything more than the short term.
Do you have parents who can help you?

I don’t want to leave him, just for things to be different. I wasn’t sure whether I was being abit ridiculous tbh and I just don’t know how to get him to see things differently. Is counselling for this sort of thing? Would an independent person take my point of view or are they always neutral in things like this?
He is normally very laid back and for him to firmly put his foot down on no joint account or finances worries me..all he can say is there is just no point and it’s not happening!

“where he should be able to support us financially“ but he’s not supporting you in any other way and doesn’t plan to support you financially if you return to work. Show him this, although it’s out of date so your worth will be more now

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11164040/How-much-is-a-housewife-worth.html

Could you talk to a family ‘elder’ who he would listen to? Does he realise it’s not normal?

No can never just buy something really if I see it, and it particularly annoys me if I’m with the children and they see something they like as a treat, book dvd etc I have to check I have enough cash on me for random purchases like that and often can’t buy it but daddy buys them things on the weekend all the time without thinking. Drives me mad.
I do have an amazon account with his card saved but would never just buy something without checking first, although he would say yes.

I think most of it has already been said, but YANBU.

I was SAHM for 7 years before returning to a part-time, flexible job three years ago. Basically, because I needed to do something else. I cover childcare + £200 (or would do if just I paid it) but also see it as making me more employable, enabling me to contribute to a pension scheme and just to do something different.

We have the arrangement whereby we worked out running costs and these are in a joint account (which I run because DH doesn't really have time/know what goes out for DC). The remainder is divided between us and into our own separate accounts so we both have some privacy. This is basically what we did pre-dc when we both worked but just using one salary. Savings are held in a mix of our names but mainly in mine. I think DH is fairly aware that his hours would require him to hire two nannies if he wasn't here and he has looked after the Dc enough to know what it entails.

I think you need a pretty frank chat with your DH.

You still refuse to recognise this as financial abuse, OP, which is worrying.

Do you want to give some figures (monthly mortgage, bills, debt, shopping) so posters can work out if the £70k is being reasonably spent or whether he has secret savings? (Totally understand you may not want to).