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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Friend turned on me - really hurt me and I don't know why.

239 replies

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 08:59

I have a friend, lives in another city. I was travelling nearby last week so arranged to go and stay with her for a couple of days.

We went out the first night and had some drinks, sat up chatting until quite late. Everything was going ok, she started telling me how she had not got any confidence as she'd not worked for a few years (due to a physical disability). I was trying to be supportive, giving her advice like maybe try some voluntary work, look at the things she'd done with her hobbies (she does puppetry), just trying to help. Everything was met with a no, the conversation was getting circular to everything I said she just replied she did not have the confidence. Then she started saying she didn't want to talk about it. So I changed the subject but she kept coming back to it. And then things got nasty, every time I opened my mouth she shouted at me to shut up. Said that I was going on about it - even though I had no stake in going on about it -it was not my issue - she was the one who kept bringing it up.

By now she was really shouting at me and this woke up her husband and school age daughter, her husband then started shouting at me that I'd woken him up, and told me to go to bed. I never even raised my voice! She started crying on his shoulder like I'm the bad guy.

So I went to bed all the time thinking 'I need to get out of here' but at 2 in the morning your options are limited.

Come the morning I thought I don't want to stay here and it's not fair on her daughter who by now was giving me a really bad vibe that she wanted me out. So I told her husband I'd go to a hotel that night, but we could still hang out if she wanted to see me and talk, just I didn't want to sleep there.

He tried to downplay it a bit, but I'd made my mind up. Anyway I told my friend, who was still in bed, that this is what I was planning and then all hell broke loose. She came out of the room and shouted at me- first to stop making a fuss over nothing, then when it became clear I wasn't going to back down, shouted at me repeatedly to fuck off and that I was selfish and to get the fuck out.

So I packed up my stuff and then she physically shoved me out the door all the time shouting fuck off fuck off at me. I've never seen rage like it.

I really don't understand what happened here. I sent her a message saying no one talks to me like that and we are not friends any more, she followed up with abusive replies and said I'd driven her to it. I said she'd passed the point of no return now.

We've been friends around 3 years and something like this (but not as bad) happened a couple of years ago, and I gave her a second chance then.

I guess I am still reeling a bit and feeling a bit shell shocked that she could turn on me like this. It's like -she could say whatever she liked but when I said anything she told me to shut up/fuck off and then blamed me for everything and made herself out to be the victim. And that's emotionally abusive isn't it.

But I can't help wondering why she's done this to me... I know I need to move on but it's left me feeling really strange.

OP posts:
MrsJoshDun · 23/02/2018 10:11

It is fine to fall out with someone but not to repeatedly shout “fuck off, fuck off” while shoving them out the door. That does suggest some sort of mental health issues, even if it’s just being unable to cope with stress/pressure/feeling depressed. It’s not a normal reaction.

I think you’re well shot of her.

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 10:11

I don't think I have anything to apologise for, and I have cut contact.

I really don't think I did anything wrong except maybe cut the conversation off sooner and just go to bed but I kept hoping things would get back into a better place and didn't want to just bale...

I guess I am quite solution focused and like to be in control of my life so for someone with a very different outlook it's never gonna be that compatible as we'll always brush up against each other.

OP posts:
bluecashmere · 23/02/2018 10:12

I think the solution is to offer an ear and sympathy and if you get a negative response to the first suggestion, don't proceed to offer all kinds of other suggestions. At my lowest points the greatest help I have received has been someone simply saying something along the lines of "That sounds terrible. I really feel for you".

TalkinBoutWhat · 23/02/2018 10:13

Just read your last message - your a Ms Fix-it. Do her a favour and stay away from her. She's not in the right place to fix things right now. Maybe later.

If you want to have the option of saving your friendship then send her a message along the lines of 'sorry, I was only trying to help but I can see that you're finding it really difficult right now and just needed to vent and I didn't do a great job of just listening'.

Davespecifico · 23/02/2018 10:13

No need to keep going over it in your head. She was a terrible host, she was abusive to you. Let her husband deal with her.
Move on and forget her.

Butterymuffin · 23/02/2018 10:18

The physical and verbal aggression isn't justified, regardless of how she feels. If this was a male partner behaving that way to you, it would be clearly abusive. I think you've dodged a bullet in ending the friendship now.

DatingLife · 23/02/2018 10:22

She sounds a nut. Interesting she exploded when you were under her roof and had nowhere to go in the middle of the night. Classic time for abusive behaviour to assert itself. Really, you're well rid. Sorry you had to deal with this, its really shit Flowers.

DatingLife · 23/02/2018 10:23

And agree ... try and move on

WellThisIsShit · 23/02/2018 10:26

Wow, that is really strange - And also, it’s not that strange either!

I can offer insight into what probably led to the point of no return, if you want to hear it?

I’m not sure from your OP whether you just want to vent or whether you’re open to understanding some ideas of why thus could have happened, so I guess I’m posting just in case.

I’ve taken ages to write this in between other tasks so sorry if the thread has moved on.

I also don’t think what happened was acceptable.

I think you should drop this ‘friendship’ ASAP, but there are lessons you could learn about how to behave towards others in the future with physical illnesses and disabilities. Should you want to.

Tbh when you first started recounting the way you were ‘helpfully’ suggesting your solutions for her physical disability, I was 100% on your friends side! And to keep doing this over and over again, well, you certainly have persistence don’t you?!

But then the reaction after was so disproportionate and shocking for you, and to spill over into the next day?! So of course I feel for you lots having to go through that, especially as you don’t seem to have seen it coming at all, so utterly blindsided by it.

But back to the beginning of your evening, where you’ll find the answers to what happened I think... As a disabled person, I can tell you that there’s nothing more alienating than being forced to parry people’s spontaneous and thoughtless solutions to your complex and multifaceted situation. Like you’ve never had those same ideas yourself in the weeks, months and years of your disability? There’s an all too familiar pattern to these ‘helpful’ problem-solvers. First the obvious questions. Then, I’ve noticed that people tend to get very fond of their bar-side ideas, and decide their uninformed ignorant pet theory is ‘The Answer’ to your problems. And then of course they get upset when you point out the essential flaws in their plan. The core issues that mean the idea isn’t practical, or has barriers that mean that although it’s a nice idea, in reality, it’s not practical. Honestly, if this simple idea was all it took, don’t you think your disabled friend (and all the other disabled people in the country?), would have jumped at the chance? But, and this is the predictable final stage in these types of conversations, to polish it off, it’s always the disabled persons fault for being ‘negative’. The person gets annoyed when the disabled person continues to be a party pooper and either explains why their lovely shiny new idea doesn’t work out, or how they’ve already tried it and X happened. Then it’s convenitently all the disabled persons fault. Now they don’t realky want to get back into work, they’re just being awkward, or they have a bad attitude, or they should try harder... I know it’s super annoying when disabled people keep pointing out how disabling being disabled is, but just imagine trying to live like that?!

Over the last 7 years, what I’ve found is that people Really Don’t Understand How Disabling Being Disabled Really Is. and I get it, I really do, as I once had that luxury too, of not understanding disability, of thinking I got it, but being able to walk away from my thoughtfulness and get on with my own life whenever I wanted to.

It’s incredibly hard when you can’t turn off the awkwardness of your condition, ever. Not just to get the essentials done, or to prioritise X task now and forget about the disability until it’s done, or to go be disabled on someone else’s time because X’s time is too important.

It’s utterly miserable and an evening of that type of behaviour from you would have been very upsetting for your friend. She would have felt belittled and also probably increasingly isolated, with your lack of insight demonstrating the yawning chasm between her as a physically disabled person, and you as a healthy person, and n’er the twain shall meet, as it were. If you persisted in this mode of interaction with her, it would have felt like an inquisition, a kangaroo court where she had to defend herself about why she was still inconveniently acting disabled to everyone, why hadn’t she just got up and battled it out and why, in effect, was she failing?

Even if you didn’t mean to make her feel like that, when someone is very low and unconfident, can’t you see that pushing her to justify why she hasn’t / won’t do X idea, isn’t going to be a terribly positive thing to do? It’s certainly no way to spend an evening out with a friend!

When an illness or accident suddenly takes away your health, it’s awful. It’s so much more than ‘just’ having a bad back, or being tired all the time or whatever. It stops you being able to do all the things you enjoy in life, all the things that you need to do, and most destructively, it stops you from being the person you used to be. It does hammer your confidence and you’re self esteem. It can take a long time and a hell of a lot of courage to rebuild the pieces again. And some people never do. That’s not because they are weak, or annoying, or because they want to have changed. It’s because it’s really really hard, and really really unfair. I suspect a lot of people who never have to even think about disability, who go through life blithe and happy and strong in their confidence and self belief, they may well simply crumble under the reality of the daily struggle of what it actually means to be disabled.

But, none of that excuses the swearing and pushing and general escalation of behaviour that happened after.

It probably does set the scene for it though.

This is probably one of the key reasons she completely lost it. And this is probably the reason she acted like you were the aggressor though you couldn’t see why she would have felt ‘got at’ at the time.

Once you’d hammered on those sensitive spots over the course of an evening, added in drink and / or tiredness, then it sounds like it was a highly fraught situation just waiting to explode.

They both handled it extremely badly, and it sounds horrible for you. You were actually in a somewhat ‘vulnerable’ position in that you were staying with them and reliant on their hospitality. Which sounds completely lacking as the stay just broke down.

I think it sounds like it got to such a high level of fraughtness that your friend completely lost control, and she should have been able to either head that off herself, or her husband should have been able to step in and get you, as the source of the upset, away from her ASAP. All terribly awkward.

No screaming and swearing and shoving ever acceptable though. It’s just not. Sounds like your friend just flipped, as a disproportionate response. That says to me that she has a lot of stuff to deal with.

As you don’t seem to have picked up on any of the signs before hand that anything you said could be upsetting, or that your friend was getting distressed, then to have this massive disproportionate response, it must have seemed really shocking to you.

I also wonder about how nice she is normally, the illness and the upset aside? You said she freaked out at you like this before? Was it in similar circumstances or before she became physically disabled? Do you think she’s a nice person in general? Or is this a factor?!

I’d walk away from this ‘friendship’ / situation and chalk it up to experience.

Of course she behaved terribly.
Honestly, it sounded like a tinder box situation to spark and unfold in this way.
You were just the spark. She obviously has a huge amount of highly flammable ‘baggage’ that she needs to sort out. That’s not your fault. Your spark would have just been a spark in an empty box.
But if you do want to learn anything from this, you could try and understand how to be a little gentler and more empathetic towards people with disabilities.

user1471453601 · 23/02/2018 10:26

You may benefit from reading a book called Games People Play, particularly the chapter called Yes,But. I found it quite illuminating. Like you, by nature I'm a problem solver, this chapter helped me understand why my approach sometimes backfired.

But your friend was out of order anyway

SandAndSea · 23/02/2018 10:29

Yes, but why should I accept what she's telling me.

Because it's her story and her life, not yours.
Because it's not your business.
Because you're not the expert in that situation and you don't know what's best for her.
Because your help wasn't asked for and wasn't helping and was apparently upsetting her more.
Because listening works.

Just some ideas.

RubberJohnny · 23/02/2018 10:35

You don't need enemies in your life like this, let alone friends! I cannot see what you've done wrong.
And @sallyandherarmy...totally normal reaction 😕
*Chicken

Mental health issues?

Why?

It is perfectly fine to fall out with someone!

Why the fuck does everything have to come down to MH issues?

I have NOT got MH 'issues' and never have had them.

How about just accepting that shit happens?*

RubberJohnny · 23/02/2018 10:36

Bold fail but you can see the stars!

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 10:49

But my help was asked for! I get that sometimes people don't want advice but why should I have to have a ringside seat at someone else's pity party- repeatedly?

If someone wants to have a moan and not actually have any advice then they need to let me know that, why do I have to be the one to work that out? Or if the convo isn't working for them again they can take so.w responsibility for that and move it on.

I am a 'fix it' person both in my professional role and in my life myself, always searching for answers, solutions, very analytical and task focused. So I understand maybe not everyone is like that and maybe those people are not compatible with me in this kind of situation.

Well this.. what makes you so sure I am physically healthy? I have my fair share of health issues too. What I don't do is use it as an excuse for poor behaviour.
But thank you for your long post it reads a bit victim blamey but I think you meant well.

OP posts:
onalongsabbatical · 23/02/2018 10:55

Honestly, if you were really interested in understanding the effects of your behaviour, you'd read some of these posts very, very carefully. Wellthis's is extremely insightful. But it sounds like you don't really want our help but just want to vent. Oh, hang on.. exactly what you're accusing your friend of.
We are all each others' mirrors, you know. The people we learn most from are the ones we think we can never possibly understand.
You sound very unbalanced towards the rational and not empathic. It's curable.

shouldaknownbetter · 23/02/2018 11:00

I am interested but it does feel like I'm being blamed for my friends reaction which I didn't expect to happen on the relationships board where there is usually a big no no on victim blaming

OP posts:
SandAndSea · 23/02/2018 11:04

OP, I'm a fixit person too and I know I've done what I think you might have done here. I've also been your friend - hooked by certain issues, wanting to talk about them, feeling bad, going round and round etc.

I think sometimes we just have to be there for our friends and accept that we can't fix them and even if we think we can, that's not our job in the situation.

It is also the case though that some people are incredibly difficult and unreasonable. I'm not ruling that out here.

Angelf1sh · 23/02/2018 11:08

You said you couldn’t understand why she acted like this OP. People are explaining to you reasons why she might have done so (whilst all acknowledging that she was behaving unacceptably), but you are now just getting defensive and not listening. This again could be an explanation as to why she did this. If you got defensive and didn’t listen when she told you to stop trying to “fix it” then maybe that’s why she snapped.

onalongsabbatical · 23/02/2018 11:09

I have no idea about victim blaming being a no-no here - and yet, again, it's what you're doing isn't it? I mean pity party - really? Imagine if you're really suffering, being around someone who has that attitude? How belittled and unsupported you'd feel? And the attitude comes across whatever your words are.

Jellyheadbang · 23/02/2018 11:13

Her reaction was extreme and unreasonable especially with a child in the house.
I have an incurable condition. Extensive research has come up with zilch. I’ve lost my confidence, my figure, my professional standing and my quality of life.
I hear many many well meaning suggestions from friends who sometimes don’t accept the documented research and think they know better. It’s annoying. Depending on who it is I’ll correct them, argue/discuss//inform or if I find it unbearable I’ll avoid them.
I guess she’s down and maybe heard it all before but that’s no excuse to turn on a house guest like that. Don’t waste time analysing. Be grateful you never have to see her again. Her poor daughter.

Jellyheadbang · 23/02/2018 11:15

Oh and reading a post above, I too am ‘a problem solver’. It’s lost me friends and family!

IntoTheFloodAgain · 23/02/2018 11:23

OP I’m the same as you, I really don’t like people moaning about how hard everything is but then refusing to do anything about it, especially over and over.

Fair enough if she’d said it once or twice but to keep going in circles and to keep bringing it up after you’d changed the conversation- why did the conversation have to centre on her completely anyway?

Honestly there’s no reason for her reaction, I wouldn’t accept it and I’d feel very uncomfortable and embarrassed staying in a house where all of the occupants had a problem with me and reacted that way.

She probably doesn’t see the issue and I guarantee she’ll contact you at some point like nothing has happened and make out you’re being precious for being bothered about it.

JustGettingStarted · 23/02/2018 11:34

I have a fixit friend. I recognise it and when I'm really just in the mood to moan I either change the subject or I say "yeah I know. I just wanna moan."

And when I'm being the Fixit friend and I see that they're not keen on it, I stop.

Emotionally mature people generally understand what's going on. She should have left it. And it doesn't sound like you were giving her advice - if someone said they have low confidence, it's nice to point out things they're good at.

Davespecifico · 23/02/2018 11:34

Are you going to try and contact her again, or leave it?

bluecashmere · 23/02/2018 11:43

I think there are two parts to this though. The friend was out of order shouting in the evening, but this is likely to have been a result of stress brought on by the unsolicited advice which made her feel worse rather than better. She then went to bed expecting it all to calm down.

In the morning, OP could have asked whether it would be appropriate to leave but instead gave her own 'fuck you' by saying she refused stay a second night. That was never going to end well. I don't think OP should have been shoved out the door, but I can't believe she thought everyone would be happy that she was rejecting their hospitality. That is rude. Yes, the friend was rude the night before but likely due to a depressed or anxious state. It feels to me that OP needs to have more empathy and understanding of people who aren't just like her.

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