How can I have been so stupid

[Fuzzywig1]

I am in a terrible terrible mess and it is all my own fault.

This is long sorry.

Before I post please can I say that anything nasty or mean you say to me I have said to myself and it is not why I am here

I have been married for 21 years to a kind and gentle but emotionally distant man. I know he loves me but he does not find it easy to be vulnerable and show it in some ways. I am very warm and physically affectionate and he is not or not consistently meaning I often would feel lonely. Sex was also always on his terms and less than I wanted.

30 years ago I had an 18 month relationship with who I thought was ‘the one’ . Yes I was very young 22 and he was even younger (19). Anyway after a very very passionate relationship he went off to drama school and decided to leave me. I was heartbroken and never forgot him and never trusted that sort of passion again.

2 years ago and out of the blue an email arrived saying he had seen me at my sons football training. We started emailing agreed to meet ( I told my husband about this first meeting) blah blah yes we started an affair.

From the beginning he told me he always loved me but buried the feelings deep he wants us to be together we are twin souls. He left his wife and now lives on his own.

I did not ask him to do this by the way

I feel somehow enchanted by him and that I lose my reason ....

I have told my husband I want to get divorced but he cannot believe it and says we have always had a lovely and sweet relationship

Eventually he found out and now I am in an awful impasse.

The om said he does not want to put pressure on me but his moving out made its own guilt and pressure. His constant emailing showering of love and gifts etc have made me stupid.

My husband seems to just want to carry on as if nothing has happened and that I’m the end I will ‘cone Back to him’.

Over and over every day I change my mind about what to do. What will cause the least harm.

I have two lovely children aged 13 and 9 and I cannot bear the thought of hurting them. I have already hurt them by being distant from their father and sleeping separately from him.

I think I have now got to the point of knowing that I cannot do this. It is wrong, I have been deluded Abd stupid.

But I am now scared to tell the om who has changed his life for me and will be devastated

This email sounds so stupid.

I don’t think people would believe this of me.

I didn’t mean that last but I meant a lot better than a counsellor, my mind was wandering.

You need to put a stop to having sex for the time being if it feels clinical. I can see why your DH is keen – it's one way of him eradicating the OM. But without any other physical affection it could be really damaging in the long run and you don't want to feel like you're going through the motions. However hard a conversation it is, I think you need to raise this via the marriage coach.

There is a lot of other physical affection and that is fine but intimate kissing and sex don’t. I feel awful about it but don’t want it to become a ‘thing’

Well done Fuzzy. I’ve just read the whole thread and the progress you have made from your first post is really striking. You will have your good days and your bad, but I absolutely think you have made the right decision and am cheering you on from my living room. The OM sounded totally manipulative and would never have brought you long term happiness. Keep on working with your DH to get back to where you were. It won’t happen overnight but it sounds like you are both committed to making the relationship work now. Baby steps.

Again, well done and stay strong

ps and just keep on ignoring OM’s messages. I wouldn’t engage at all ever again if I were you. Just don’t give him the headspace. Happily over the course of this thread you seem to be seeing him much more clearly now you have created a bit of space. He is bad news. Your husband in the other hand sounds like a good man, don’t let OM weasel his way back in with his unwelcome messages and head games

Im having a bad day today. Dont know why. I was fine at home. Actually i do know - he sent me this song right at the beginning , a very romantic Scott Walker song and it popped into my head unbidden. Its like being under some sort of intoxication.... I know he wouldnt have brought me long term happiness. Everybody i know says my DH is good for me. And he is most certainly a good man. OM is a charmer. My Mum really really did not like him in the first place as she said he was flighty. I just need to keep remembering this and forgetting the sunshine and flowers. Thats what she said about him 'Everything's lovely and the birds and singing and the sun is shining until a big black rain cloud comes along and dumps on you'.

When he left me in the first instance it was basically because he wanted to sleep with lots of girls on his acting course. He was one of the only straight people. He told me 'you are the only person i have ever been faithful to'. Well that is hardly reassuring is it (especially as it was for 18 months 30 years ago).

it wasnt about him to be honest. It was about me. At the very beginning before anything sexual had happened i felt amazing . I am just writing this to remind myself of the truth rather than my brain chemistry tricks.

I felt amazing in a different way when i married my dh and we were very very happy. The kids and their challenges meant we always put their needs above our own and above ours as a couple and i was certainly at the bottom of the pile in the family when it came to my needs being met......

Well done Whizbang for reading the whole thing....

OP - it’s the same over and over, isn’t it....
I don’t know if the OM is the man for you or not.

But I certainly know that you are trying really hard to convince yourself that you love your husband. And it works, some of the time. And other times (often) you post these sort of posts.

I also know - that if it were me - i’d Not want my other half stay with me because ‘everyone says I am a good person’, or ‘they say he is the best for me’, or because my parents didn’t like someone else.
Call me crazy. If we are talking about being loved - i want to be loved without any convincing being necessary. Or because I have children with the other person.
Then it’s not love but duty they are staying for.

Josuk i understand what you are saying but

I dont really come on here and write stuff when I am feeling OK
I know i have that 'i love you but i am not in love with you' feeling but it is largely because i still have limerent feelings for OM whilst KNOWING that

I didnt actually think he was a nice person in fact sometimes Ifound him despicable
I didnt trust him
I knew that at the very least he would be serially unfaithful to me and probably leave me
I didnt want to have to play the role of full time sex goddess that he had lined up for me
I didnt feel safe with him

DH is the only person i have been with where i have felt fully accepted for the whole of me. And looked after and safe.

I do love him. But it is a different sort of love after 30 years together than it is in a 2 year affair...

I dont think it is duty i am staying for. I know i didnt want to leave him. The fact is that once i have decided not to contact OM i havent. Whereas once i 'decided' to leave my DH i really did very little towards making that happen. And i dont miss him as such i miss 'it' the excitement of the affair.

And i dont have that excitement with ny dh. Of course i dont. I've never had it before in fact - with OM in the first place i never felt like that - it was created by the affair.

It is possible to fall back in love with him and if you had asked me before i started this affair if i loved him I would have said yes. No convincing necessary.

I actually have got mild depression symptoms /anhedonia and i know they are caused by chemical withdrawal.

Also this anhedonia is not only linked to my DH. I used to say I loved my job. Since this ending a lot of the time i am sitting here thinking 'oh what's the point'. And a bit the same with the kids (not them but their stuff eg book day being less interested). It is all linked to my brain chemistry being altered and is a known effect of sudden withdrawal of a stimulant.

And its not all the time.

In the end with OM it just started to not 'feel' right e.g when he would hug me or i would put my head on his shoulder. Or anything resembling domesticity...

OP - it’s not a binary choice.
It’s not OM or your H....
You seem to be making it this way - OM isn’t right, isn’t a nice person - hence it’s the H....
So - if the OM was a nicer person and made you feel safe? Then what?

There is a version of the future - where it’s not a choice between these two. Where you do what’s right for YOU.
Not your children, family and circumstances.

And as to your depression - again - you try to look at it and use it as a supporting argument in your logical chain that leads you to ‘falling in love with your H’....
No one knows why people get depressed really. And your attempts to force your feelings to return may (or may not) have something to do with your depression just as well.

If I were you - i’d try to spend time on your own - to really soul search and figure out what you need/want/feel. Actually feel, rather than ‘should’ or ‘want’ to feel.

All I am saying.

I can't see how you could spend some time alone when you have very dependant kids. How would that work?

Josuk makes a good point, even if I don't entirely agree with it. You say you were 'very happy' in your marriage until OM came along. imo he targeted you and emotionally seduced you. Everyone has vulnerable spots, especially in long marriages of 30 years, and he exploited your vulnerabilities. He is thoroughly bad news imo.

I think I am saying you were a victim. Of course we have to take responsibility for our behaviour, and all that goes into our behaviour and choices. But I think you were specifically targeted by a disordered and malevolent personality.

Now you have pulled back from the brink and, not surprisingly, you are feeling disorientated, even perhaps a little traumatised. I am reminded of the film Brief Encounter (where imo she was, indeed, seduced by Trevor Howard!) and her tears at the end: she is grieving and will take a while to recover.

You don't have to convince yourself to love your husband - you loved him before and I think you will love him again, once you thaw from your brush with an individual who has no interest in your wellbeing, only his own.

Springydaff everything you say sounds right. Josuk i know there is that possibility. It isnt one i want to entertain to be honest but i know there is that possibility.

I definitely have had trauma symptoms - they are very common post an affair for both the betrayed spouse and the betrayer. I went into shock for a while at a realisation of what i had nearly done.

And i am grieving over a number of things. the person i thought i was, the image i had of my marriage, the loss of the excitement etc. I do love my husband.

I wasnt totally happy in every single way - there had been a diminution of affection and sex and i wasnt happy about it. But i knew i loved my dh and had no intention of leaving him.

Spending some time alone, apart from DH is often offered as a solution but it rarely works. I spent a lot of time 'alone' in some senses this last year - i slept on my own and would spend hours thinking it all through.

The way i look at it is. If i had made the decision to leave DH and had left him i would be feeling WAY WORSE than i do now. When i am happy a lot of the time but not all the time

As per normal life, surely.

Well it isnt the same as my normal life before this. Before this i would have said that on the whole i was a happy thriving confident person with some gripes about my DH. Some big some small.

Now i feel like i am in recovery.

The depression after the ending of limerence is very common. there are initial physical symptoms, similar to panic, all of which i had and then a more lingering depressed feeling. It isnt the same as a normal grieving process. Ive read loads about it online and all the symptoms are pretty normal. Some therapists recommend anti depressants for the first weeks or months after going NC. Not that i want to do that.

I find it not uninteresting that OM really enjoyed the film Les Liaisons Dangereuses where he set out to prove he could seduce a 'virtuous woman' and then dropped her. In fact he used that line on me when he dropped me the first time: 'it's beyond my control'.

I think Josuk is asking what if none of the red flags had been there would i have left DH. I dont know. I doubt it though. Because i have a deep bond with DH that is not duty.

Was the sex better with the OM and now you're struggling to go back to a sex life with your DH (a 30 year old sex life cannot compete with a one that's much newer)! Or is it that you feel like your betraying OM by sleeping with your DH? Or that you feel too ashamed to sleep with DH? If you can answer those questions to yourself truthfully then you stand more chance of mending your marriage - or deciding not to...

Well its a bit the first (except it wasnt by the end, i sort of felt like it was a performance with no real emotional connection). I do feel too ashamed yes. No i dont feel like i am betraying OM. At least i dont think so. Maybe my subconscious does.

I doubt you feel you're betraying OM.

Your body and mind, emotions, have been walkabout. It's going to take a while to settle down.

You are right Springydaff. It is settling down but it isn’t linear.

Remembering how I was a month ago I am much much calmer now

I think one of the things to remember is that one of the best ways to 'get rid' of a feeling one doesn't want to have is to accept one has the feeling in the first place. It seems to me that you're fighting what you feel for him and that's making the guilt stronger and the 'hold' tighter. It doesn't mean 'giving in' to the feeling, quite the opposite. It means saying "Here I am, now how do I get out of this".

So, I think you need to first accept the feelings that you still have for OM. They are what they are. It doesn't mean you like them, or want to act on them. It just means you say "OK, I feel XXX for OM. Now I will work on ways to overcome these feelings and get on with the life I have chosen". If you deny the feelings or punish yourself for them, you aren't acting in a positive way. And I do think you are punishing yourself. I think part of your feeling of 'distance' between you and DH may have to do with the fact that you feel you don't 'deserve' him or that you must punish yourself by not allowing yourself to feel the love he is offering or the love you feel for him.

It's rather like shit on the floor. If you walk in a room and there's shit on the floor, what is accomplished by saying "There is NO shit on that floor! I deny its very existence. I will not clean it up because ^it is not there!!"? Much better to say "Oh dear, there's shit on the floor! I'm not going to concern myself with how it got there, it's there now so I'm just going to clean it up because who wants shit on the floor?".

Ok across the pond I get what you are saying but I am not sure the feelings are FOR the other man. They are AROUND the other man. If you see what I mean.

They are associated with him and the fantasy life he offered me.

I am finding the reality of daily life hard to adjust to.

I don’t feel like I am punishing myself but it is very hard with DH as he wants me to go back immediately to acting very affectionately to him when he wants. And I don’t always want to and my subconscious reaction shows this. And then he gets upset and says I am rejecting him.

In some ways it would be better to be apart till this Limerence and depressed feeling goes but because of kids and work etc that isn’t possible.

I have tried to get him to read things but he gets upset/annoyed and says it’s not all about ny feelings. I get that but I do think if people don’t want a hug or kiss it is their prerogative. And if it feels forced it won’t help things.

Oh what a mess.

No, I really don't understand what the difference is between 'for' and 'around', I think that's you trying to distance yourself from them rather than accept them and deal with them. But they are your feelings to deal with, not mine.

I do agree that your DH needs to back off the physical affection bit, though. I understand his apparent 'need' for it, it's his way of proving to himself that you really are 'back'. Rather like a small child who clings to his mummy for reassurance after being scolded.

It's rather like you and he are working at cross purposes towards the same goal. You need space to clear your head, he needs excessive closeness to prove the marriage is back on track. This is where a counselor can help. A coach merely touches the surface behaviours and tries to change those. A counselor digs down into motives and emotional history to help you truly change from the inside out.

I do think you need some time alone, without either of them hanging on to your sleeve and demanding things of you. I think even a week or two by yourself would help you, especially if you could combine it with counseling sessions.

What I mean is that the feelings are real in a way but they were about a fantasy version of who he is. And it does help me to recognise that.

Before we do any counselling we both need to be feeling stronger I think especially dh. He doesn’t want to be made to feel it is his ‘fault’ right now which is what the counsellor told him. And to be honest I haven’t found my own counselling that insightful really.

He has backed off now and in fact it has made it easier. I don’t know how I can get time away. I’m going to Istanbul on Monday but only for a couple of days. I actually don’t like being on my own though right now. Maybe it will clear my head a bit but I don’t know.

All the advice around getting over Limerence is about distraction and not indulging in the fantasy.

He had this marvellous future painted for us with this glamorous life. It was that I was partly attracted to.

I’ve also realised that lots of my behaviour was trying to recreate happy times in my life with dh.

I get exactly what you mean about 'around'. You were sold a fantasy lifestyle - heady stuff. Now you know he's a dog you don't pine for him but for the life and lifestyle and promise. Ultimate escape eh.

Hi Op,
I'm sorry your going through this. It sounds like you've been in horrible spot. Right or wrong nobody deserves this. I'm sorry I have no advise to give only that I wish you well and hope you find your happy ending