Feel terrible. Am I an awful person?

[Oldsunset1]

Been with my partner for ten years. On many levels he is a great person - kind generous, same interests as me, hoodsith my friends and family.

But the bad side is I feel all major life decisions have been put off or stalled because of him refusing to be upfront - not buying a house, not getting engaged. I gave him an ultimatum a few years ago and regularly bring it up but he just says soonsnd it's really got to me. I feel so upset. In addition his family have openly said they hope he stays single, I've been excluded from events and he makes no effort to stick up for me. In actual fact he still goes out of his way to keep in touch and have a good relationship with them knowing how they've behaved and continue to behave to me. I feel this is so disloyal to me.

Last weekend my best friend got engaged. Her partner put some thought and effort into it. They've been going out for 18 months. It's brought it home to me how shit things are with my DP. I think he's finally realised I've had enough and has said he is going to get a ring. I just don't see the point. If you have to convince and beg someone to marry you what's the point anymore. He said he was going to go with his friend today to find one. He doesn't even know what I like despite telling him in the past. Last night I wrote his friend and him a long email. I was so angry, I told them not to bother and said some awful things about him and his family.

I've woken up today and I feel terrible. I don't recognise who I am anymore and I feel so sad. I don't know what I'm asking for really. I just feel frightened and alone.

Yes what you said really resonated with me. He is a conflict avoider. Oh just wish we hadn't got along so well. But in the end we weren't I suppose.

"I know it sounds stupid but I don't believe he is fundamentally cruel or bad. I think he is weak and unable to deal with conflict and a people pleaser but not to the extent that he then carries through what he promises. He's a nice person but very much a by stander in life"

I think it's important to recognise that cruelty isn't only a vice of the strong and the powerful and the angry. There is a cruelty to inaction and vacillation as well. What he did to you in terms of lying about the house is absolutely shocking.

A crucial part of growing up is learning to deal with difficult people, situations, and conversations in an open and honest way. It isn't optional - it's an absolute basic necessity when it comes to being a responsible, moral being in the world. It sounds as though he's never done this bit of adulthood, and is still operating like a child in a state where he simply throws up his hands and refuses to engage when life gets too difficult.

And part of the reason he has been able to continue in this child-like state so long is that everyone around him has enabled it, including you. The trouble is that you have done that growing up, you are behaving like an adult. But you've been placed in a situation by him where you had no control, no ability to self-determine about your future. I think almost anyone would become depressed in such a situation, because it is intensely stressful. Michael Marmot did a famous piece of medical research on stress, where he found that the most stressed people in the civil service weren't those with the top jobs or those at the bottom of the payscale, but those in middle management. Do you know why? Because they were caught between responsibility for delivering things, and a lack of control over the conditions under which they had to work. Not being able to determine really important things in life is really bad for your mental health! Things will be difficult for a while in this break-up, because it's really painful to leave a long term relationship, but if you just stick to it, I think you will find your horizons widen and your MH improves.

You weren't getting along well, he was fobbing you off on every turn and you were carrying him as a passenger. The sneaky thing about conflict avoiders is that it often LOOKS like you're doing well because, well, there's no conflict. But a bit of conflict is both healthy and necessary.

You have absolutely done the right thing.

Oldsunset, I was married to a conflict avoider. After 20 years he had an affair. I snooped, read the emails he was sending her, and he was telling her that he had never wanted to marry me and have children - basically that I had made him do it. This was the first I heard of any such idea. I hadn't put any pressure on him; it was my idea, in that I suggested that I could stop taking the pill, but he went along with it apparently happily.

I'm not so convinced by the whole idea that someone is a great guy but "just" a conflict avoider.

Just read your thread Oldsunset and wanted to pop by to say GOOD ON YOU!! You've done the hardest bit, now take it slowly and above all take care of yourself.
You've started to love yourself by the brave actions you've taken. Now continue that by taking really good care of yourself. Long hot luxurious baths, delicious healthy food, whatever you fancy on TV, take yourself to see a film, a long walk in a lovely place...whatever you fancy. Oh and kick the cigs...you don't need them now.
Once you love yourself, you'll be able to meet someone that loves YOU...not that uses you. You sound lovely by the way, and I wish you every happiness for the future. You're free to do WHATEVER YOU want! You're young, grab life by the whatsits and go live! Life is short, squeeze every last drop out of it.

Well done!

I think you've got the most important asset that your ex is missing, OP....you know what you want and you are brave enough to do what's necessary to make it possible.

He's not a people pleaser, though, he's a conflict avoider and that's a very different thing. And when conflict is forced on him, as it has rightly been these last few days, he runs around like a headless chicken, babbling crap endlessly and trying to cover every base at once to...avoid conflict.

A crucial part of growing up is learning to deal with difficult people, situations, and conversations in an open and honest way. It isn't optional - it's an absolute basic necessity when it comes to being a responsible, moral being in the world. It sounds as though he's never done this bit of adulthood, and is still operating like a child in a state where he simply throws up his hands and refuses to engage when life gets too difficult.

poor and whisky I think you have really captured what I realise was so fundamentally wrong. I've also felt that in many ways he was a Peter Pan figure and I had to do a lot of the adult running around and it was exhausting. And whisky you are very right, the lack of control over what was going on was more than demoralising. I look at friends and their partners and see how they work towards goals together and it's fun and exciting even when it's stressful and challenging and I also felt alone, that if I wanted things to happen I would have to sort it all myself.

I've felt really down today but reading everyone's messages has really helped. Thank you.

I've also listened to thorn in my side by the eurythmics on repeat which has been very useful ha!

Feel quite shocked it has ended but I know it is for the best.

OP there's a big wide world out there. Now you can go and enjoy it. Good luck 😊

Just an update there's been no direct contact. But I've had a couple of emails where he's written to someone and needlessly cc'ed me in. I've not responded to anything.

I’ve thought of you a couple of times OP. Try to focus your thoughts on your future. Cc’ing You on pointless emails is sad and designed to prevent you moving on by reminding you of him. Your smarter than that though now you understand him.
If you like to read I can recommend Hold me Tight by Sue Johnson, it really helps you to understand healthy relationships and what love is. It’s enlightening.
Thanks for letting us know how you’re getting on

op, 31 is so young - you have truly dodged a bullet with this dickhead. I had a horrible breakup myself aged 26 and do truly sympathise. I spent two years alone feeling awful. The positive is that I met someone lovely aged 28, married him at 29 and had two babies by the time I was 31. We're still together and relatively happy a fair number of years later.

I am so, so glad I dumped the utter twat I was heartbroken over before. It'll be the same for you

But I've had a couple of emails where he's written to someone and needlessly cc'ed me in.

LOOK AT MEEEEE
LOOK AT MEEEE

DO YOU REMEMBER MEEEEEEEEE

DON'T MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO BE AN ADULT MAN

THINK ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Am really tempted to message him and ask if he is returning my stuff and give him s piece of my mind. Am sitting on my fingers and eating ice cream to stop myself in case this is a bad idea.

I do have some stuff there that I would like to get back though.

I don't want to get dragged back in though

Do you have anyone that would collect for you? He is laughable with his email ccing 😂

No, not really. It could wait but I don't want to just leave it there indefinitely

Just be very matter of fact and say you will be coming to collect your things at so and so time and date and will be returning his things.

Yes...just treat it like a business matter and communicate what needs to be communicated. No more. This guy has one of the worst cases of verbal diarrhoea I think I've ever seen, but you can ignore all that.

I feel really depressed. I spoke to him just now. Turns out he has dropped my stuff off at my mums. He's now gone to stay with his sister. He said he's apologised umpteen times and unless I'm willing to forgive him there's no point. I see the arrogance in it all. But I feel so sad.

Alright that’s good. Now you have no need to contact him unless it’s to ask him to stop ccing you in emails. You’ll be better off without this man child

Do you know what gaslighting is, OP?

Please look it up and have a think about the last couple of times you have spoken to him.

He is behaving really badly but trying to cast you as the one in the wrong who has to apologise and get back into compliance. Do you want to spend your life being 'managed' so that you feel you have to put up with a half life instead of the things you quite naturally want.

Speaking as someone who lived with really bad man in her 20's...then met DH and TTC at 35 and had the most awful time imaginable trying to have a baby and I despair of every month and every good egg I wasted on that man.

You wouldn't be normal if you didn't feel sad, OP. Breakups are like bereavement and you need to grieve. But don't you dare let him pin his cowardice and stagnation on you. He had years and years to make things happen or man up, admit he didn't want what you wanted and set you free to stop wasting your time and love.

He didn't. He lied and lied, about the house, about proposing, anything but just be a man and make a decision, shit or get off the pot. Cowardice and selfishness. And now you've finally had enough and walked away to find the life you deserve, he's blaming you? It's all your fault for not "forgiving" him?

If you "forgave" him, he would still not marry you and he would still be a passenger in his own life. Nothing would change. You've done the right thing. He's a complete wimp. He can't take responsibility for anything.

"unless I'm willing to forgive him there's no point."

Ahahahaha, love the way he's making this your problem!! He's not going to change. I know it hurts like hell, but you're making the right choice.

The thing about apologising for something this big is that it is completely meaningless unless there is an intent behind it to change and make reparation. You've spent years waiting for this to happen, and nothing has shifted. In fact, his behaviour now is of a piece with his whole problem - passing the buck, putting the blame on someone, anyone, other than him.

What you say about working together towards goals is vital. Like you, I was in a relationship with a man-child for a long time. He was all kinds of fun as a friend, but when it came to building a life together, he was comprehensively useless. And this problem got worse the more 'adult' steps we took - it was kind of disguised while we were younged by our comparative lack of responsibilities, but it became more and more evident as time goes on. The crunch came when we bought a house together, and he was just useless at getting anything done. He just wanted to play, all the time. Having a marriage, a child, a home with a man like that is a nightmare.

It was absolutely terrifying to end things after so long, but it cleared a path for me to meet the man who is now my DH - who is the complete opposite: responsible, kind, practical and able to handle just about anything (he actually enjoys getting stuff done to such an extent that I'm the one reminding him he needs to relax and have some fun too!).

I am sure something similar will happen for you. And maybe in the long run, you can be friends with this ex. But not now. Right now, keep up the no contact, stay strong. Weekends can be the hardest time when you are newly single, so do try to keep busy. Sending love.

He proposes then you're engaged but no wedding date set - round 2 - trying to get a date set. You get married - round 3 - persuading him to have kids.

If a man wants marriage and kids they'll put things in motion to get it. Sorry to be harsh but does he not want those things or not want them with you?

My cousin was engaged for years. Not date set. Partner met someone at work then within 6 months he'd married the new person. Worked out for my cousin as she is married with a child to someone amazing who makes her incredibly happy