Family rift - how to heal?

[Swiftswallows]

NC'd for this.

I am recently retired, happily married for many years and 3 adult DC, the youngest are still at uni and the eldest, DD1, graduated a few years ago. DD1 fell in love with one of her housemates in her 2nd year and he came to stay several times and they seemed happy.

DD1 said that she and BF wanted to buy a house together and would I give her some money. He had money from grandparents (about £35k) and she wanted me to give her a similar sum so that they could buy a house mortgage free in a part of the country where it is possible. Otherwise, BF had been thinking of buying jointly with his DP.

I wanted to help if I could so said I would let her have the money but it had to be expressed to be a loan as, if they split up or anything happened to her, then I would want the money to come back to the family and, if anything happened to me the money would have to come back into the estate, so that it could be taken account of and it would be fair to her siblings on distribution. She was happy with that and they found a house, a fixer upper, at a good price. I didn't see it, but saw the particulars. The offer was accepted and I withdrew money from my pension to help fund the purchase.

I then began to see a different side to BF. He wasn't keen on a Deed of Trust, was reluctant to have a structural survey (even though the agent had said there was a problem with the roof), and flatly refused to have any searches done. This and other incidents caused me to have concerns that DD1 might become trapped in a controlling relationship (I did have a thread on MN at the time and most posters thought there were a lot of 'red flags'). He and DD1 were also quarrelling a lot, the house purchase was causing a lot of tension, at a time when DD1 was about to take her Finals,, and things came to a head when she had been sobbing in her room for a long time and I effectively threw him out. First I asked nicely and then I said I would call the police if he did not leave, that I didn't like him, thought that he was controlling and not good enough for my daughter. So he left, giving me a horrible glare on the way out.

I was shaking, DD1 came out of the bathroom, where she had been sobbing for about half an hour and, after receiving a few texts from him, she went after him. They went to his DP who agreed to lend them the half of the purchase price that I was going to lend, the purchase completed and that was that.

I felt wretched afterwards, that I had let DD down by insulting the one she loved. I tried to ring him and sent various emails saying I was sorry, but he said he was too busy to reply. DD1 wanted us to make up and I thought we had, as best we could. I met him for a drink and said sorry and gave him a hug, this was just before DD1's graduation, and we attended the graduation together and a celebratory meal. I also offered DD1 the money to buy BF's DPs' share of the house and she asked BF but he said no.

They then came to stay with us a few times and I said to BF a few times I was very sorry again about asking him to leave, that I had just been overprotective, but I hoped we were ok and he said that we were. During one of these visits he looked at me and said his DPs wanted their money out of the house. DD1 also mentioned to me about buying the DPs out. However, I didn't have the money at that stage as I had put it towards our retirement home. I said to DD1 that I was worried about getting involved in another transaction because of the trouble it caused but, if I ever did, it would have to be on the same basis, but she shook her head. At that stage we still had, I thought, a close relationship, she said I was her 'best friend and role model', and she took me on a European city break for a couple of days for a Mother's Day' gift.

It was then DD2's graduation a year after DD1's (she is now a postgraduate). I had booked a hotel and a celebratory meal, all agreed with DD1, all everyone had to do was turn up and enjoy the occasion. But tensions began to arise. DD2 could only obtain 2 tickets for the graduation which she wanted me and DH to have so her BF and sister watched on the big screen in the bar. DD1 had acquired 2 dogs and had previously said they could no longer stay over but would come for the ceremony and the meal. They arrived just after the ceremony (DD1 said she was watching it on her mobile phone) and left half way through the meal. There was a bit of an atmosphere although DD1 had posed for photos happily. DD2 had asked DD1 to be there for her before the ceremony for moral support, she was very anxious, and felt a bit let down. DD1 said she and BF only wanted to come together and had rejected DH's suggestion that BF maybe catch a later train so the dogs would not be left alone too long. A few days later DH and I received emails from DD1 saying we didn't make BF welcome and also one from him saying how he would never forget being made to leave my house and my insults, and criticising DD2. DD2 has not spoken to DD1 since, she was so hurt that DD1 wouldn't be there for her, but said that would have probably blown over, but couldn't understand how DD1 would let BF send the email.

DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us. When DD1 visited, she didn't seem to want to discuss anything, but when I opened the conversation she said I had let her down over the house and nobody welcomed her life partner. She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.

I saw her with DD3 for a meal in February last year and DH and I went up to visit her for 2 days last April (we stayed in a hotel nearby), and all seemed fine. We invited BF to join us for dinner etc but he declined, but DD1 seemed fine and happy. She had drawn a lovely picture for me as a birthday present, which must have taken her hours, drove us to the station, hugged us and told us how much she loved us etc. She texted Happy Birthday a few days later, and then silence, for 6 whole months, did not reply to texts, phone calls, emails from anyone in the family. I had to ring the mobile 'phone company (I still have the contract) to see if she was ok. I was frantic, I went through a whole bereavement scenario, but also hated seeing other family members such as DH so hurt and bewildered.

Since she got back in touch, there have been a number of very long calls with everyone except DD2. BF and DP sold house which made a good profit and DD1 and BF have bought a house. DD1 did a lot of the work doing up the house and driving BF to DIY shops, as well as all cooking, cleaning etc. DD1 has a tiny share of the house to reflect small inheritance she put towards it, but the rest is owned by BF.

I have said to her in the conversations we want to try to get to know BF and suggested family counselling, said what can we do. Suggested we all went away somewhere and talk things through. She said BF might see us if we treat her right and she has also said to DH and me that she effectively wants money, that we let her down over the house etc. We have said that we don't have it at the moment (we have moved into the retirement home, but not sold house yet, that we want to help all of the DC when we can.

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'. They live simply and are planning to grow their own produce, but they still struggle to get by on JSA. I feel disappointed that they won't get jobs and are living off the taxes paid by nurses and teachers, and they know that we don't approve , but we have never rowed about this as such. DH and I are not interfering parents, we want DCs to be happy and fulfilled.

DD1 has not told us of her new address although she has said that she and BF are happy to update each other on our lives by email, as that is the level of contact they feel comfortable with. He doesn't want to see us and she doesn't see anyone without him as they 'come as a package'.

I don't know where we go from here. I suppose emails are better than the silence, and hopefully things will improve, but I struggle with it all. There have been several significant family occasions which DD1 has not attended. The family is incomplete but it has become the new normal. And I worry so much about DD1. She has no friends in the area they have moved to, no job, no security. On the other hand, she has somewhere to live and does seem happy.

So sorry this is so long. I know that in many ways there is nothing I can do, she must lead her own life, but I would be grateful for any words of wisdom, especially from anyone who has been in a similar position.

Maybe try to think of her, the daughter you know, as being lost deep inside this situation. You are trying to talk to her, just to let her know that when the time comes you will welcome her back and help her find herself again.

Then there is this current version of her, that you don't recognise, that speaks his words, that appears to make choices that your daughter wouldn't. Maybe try to disregard much of what she says (things about being happy, about DH being head of the household, about if you loved her you'd give her money). This isn't really your daughter, you can't reason with her. The things she is saying don't make sense, try not to get involved with the content too much. Don't antagonist her or try to justify anything with her, just make agreeable noises.

I really do think therapy or counselling is a good idea, but do find one with experience in this area. This situation may last years or decades, sadly. There may be children in due course, and you may have little contact with them. It is a heartbreaking situation and you may feel very helpless. Thinking if it is something like a bereavement might be helpful. You do need to protect the rest of your family unit and yes adjust to this maybe taking place over a longer time period.

I think other posters who have suggested keeping communication breezy and light are onto a good idea. A weekly email from you with chat about what you have been up to (trips, holidays, meeting up with friends for coffee, cinema, exercise classes, meeting with her sisters etc) will eventually perhaps make her see what she is missing without actively spelling it out. Nothing emotional about the situation, nothing about her relationship or lifestyle, nothing about him.

I don't think sending any more apologies to him is a good idea either - it will strengthen his idea position of control and power.

You don't have him wrong. He wants money. And he wants her completely isolated. You have to think of ways to avoid giving him either.

If she wasn't with him you'd very probably naturally give her money and gifts eg a freezer. Yes her approach may be offensive - propelled by him - but try to ignore that. Certainly don't bite or, god forbid, lecture.

horrible situation to be in. I remember your graduation thread. You are not to blame here. He has cut her off from everyone preventing her to work following university. He has excately where he wants her. I second keeping the conversation going positive things and don’t meantion him.

Springy is speaking sense here. You do right by listening, I think it's good advice. Best of luck.

Thank you so much everybody for your support and for helping me deal with the anguish and guilt. I have today sent her a friendly but low key message saying we are delighted to buy them the freezer as a house warming present and that we know they will both make good use of it.

I agree that I shouldn't grovel, because I think they want me to make amends in a financial way and it will make him feel more powerful, but perhaps he could be won over if I try to make him feel more included. It is very reassuring that so many have said not to self blame but I do still think that I have let her down and handled everything very badly.

Do you really think this can be healed in time, if I am cautious and loving and patient?

Pannacott and ultra, thank you so much for your time and support, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Some days I am ok, others less so.

You sound like a lovely mum, you're desperately trying to do the right thing and you want the best for your daughter. The ball is in her court now and may be for some time, you're playing the long game but I think you're playing it right. I'll have everything crossed for you.

Swiftswallows. He wants her isolated and that's why she cancelled the meeting with dd3 and friends. He realises that if she gets the chance to spend time with normal people that she'll see him for what he is.

Every now and then also write about her friends. If they've gone travelling or started a new job etc. Not too often but to let her see that she should also be doing that instead of being holed up with this loser.

Also every letter should say how much you love her and miss her and that she will always be welcome.

I think you're still seeing this situation all wrong. You need to stop seeing this as a problem between you and him, its not personal. He's isolated her from everyone, friends and family, not just you.
He doesn't want you to make amends financially or in any way, he's using that to emotionally blackmail you into handing over money. Whatever you give will never be enough for him and once he realises he won't get any more he'll withdraw access altogether and isolate her completely.
He won't ever be won over by being included, that's not what he wants, he wants your DD isolated.
The situation will not be healed while he is in her life. Counselling won't help, he's an abuser and it's never a good idea to go into counselling with an abuser, they use it to turn on you and make themselves look blameless.
Keep emailing her, let her know you are there for her and love her. Don't send large amounts of cash all you will be doing is enabling this abuser.
You have done nothing wrong, this would gave happened anyway, chances are he targeted your DD from the start because he knew you had money.

Cric and Parlour, I think you are both right, that he does want her to be isolated, but why? They are together 24/7 and don't seem to go anywhere or do anything, and I worry that she must be losing her sense of identity and perspective, as well as her confidence, that she is trapped.

Even before the rift, when he stayed at our house, he was like a gaoler, always there, sitting in the room, when she was revising for her exams, for hours at a time. He tried to stop her from going on a holiday with friends, but that was early on in the relationship, so she went anyway. He sent a message on FB to her fellow tenants telling them what to do, in a house in which my daughter was a legal tenant but he wasn't.

I struggle with all of this. He has told DD1 that he think that he is on the spectrum, which would explain some things, but not his motives. His DP have described him to my daughter as 'difficult'. My best friend is in a long term relationship with someone whom she strongly suspects has Aspergers. Many times she has wanted to leave but didn't in the end, partly because she has no financial independence. She explained to me that she stayed because he was someone to love and because the relationship gave her mental stability.

DD1 has had some MH problems with anxiety and OCD. She has an extremely high IQ, but doesn't seem to have any focus or ambition; nothing wrong with that in itself but I strongly feel that BF has become the only thing in her life, her raison d'etre, which makes her vulnerable.

He has previously said that he wanted an 'open relationship', which she has apparently gone along with, again it's up to them , they are adults, none of my business, but I do feel that DD is not in a good position. Of course, we will be there for her and yes, it's not just about me, it's her relationships with everybody. I wondered if I should contact her best friend, who is absolutely lovely, but maybe this would be unfair on the friend whose first loyalty should be to my daughter. But I would expect that she is worried too. It is such a shame that DD1 and DD" have severed ties, as they used to be so close.

Also, DD1 told me BF split with his last GF because she was threatening to kill herself, which makes me think he might target vulnerable individuals.

How sure are you that your DD is actually reading your emails and replying, even with him vetting them? Is there a chance that she's not getting them at all and you are actually communicating with him alone?

I’m sorry your DD1 is still with Lobster boy.

Maybe contact the ex GF for advice - or maybe there is someone in your DD friendship group who knows her and can do a little subtle digging?
I doubt she was the crazy suicidal loon he depicts - I suspect she is strong and smart as she managed to get free of her gaoler. You might find out what his mind game methods are. I think the Aspergers is irrelevant - he is abusive - does matter what else he is. He is probably just the same as every other abusive man - there are various types - all cliches - would be good to get informed so you will know and anticipate his behaviours. But you will need support for you and your family to get through this.

Thanks everyone. Ghost, I love your name, I am afraid that it is Lobster Boy, but I had the other threads deleted as I was worried that they were too identifying or might fall into the hands of the DM looking for a cheap story.

I am sure that the emails are from her, but equally sure that he controls what is sent and when and certainly reads everything. The last email but one was addressed to Mum and Dad and also our Christian names, and signed on behalf of both of them with him being copied in.

I have felt her drifting further and further away from me over the period since I first posted here, coming up for three years, and I am impressed that so many of you remember those posts. It sometimes seems like watching a car crash in slow motion and being powerless to prevent it.

I rember you posting about your daughter before, I'm so sorry this is still ongoing for you. Keep emailing her, tell her about yourself and her dad and sisters, keep all of you in her thoughts.
Personally on the money side of things I would massivly reduce the amount I was giving her, give her token amounts, keep the rest in a bank acc in the fir her to have when she gets out of this abusive relationship as that's when she'll really need it to help rebuild her life
counselling for you would be a good idea, look for somebody who deals with toxic relationships.
Also have you looked at the stately homes thread on here, it's a good insight into how manipulative people can be and although you're dealing with it second hand through your daughter there's some good information on there which might help.

Really sorry you are going through this and also agree aspergers is irrelevant - this is just an abusive controlling man who targets vulnerable people.

I would also only give the smallest token amounts of money. If they are short of money it could drive him to allow /get her to work so that she would have outside contact which could be important - I have read of several situations where co worker support enabled someone to leave an abusive relationship. And also being with others could be an eye opener.

You have had some great advice and sadly I would also say you need to be prepared for several years more of this. And yes quality counselling for your family would be invaluable

You talk about your daughter as the victim but bottom line she has chosen him over you.Keep in contact if possible but don't give them any money -they have treated you like dirt .If it carries on much longer I would rewrite my will and make sure she never got a penny .
Its her life she can do what she wants but it's your life you can do what you want.
What does your husband want to do?

I'd also not give them any money to further enable this set up. Am I right in understanding you pay her mobile phone contract too? If so, stop that. Writing out of will perfectly reasonable to if you're not even permitted to know where she lives.

He sounds like a nasty piece of work and her judgement has been very seriously clouded...but ultimately she is responsible for her relationship with you.

And if she doesn't want to be trapped as a mortgage slave (or whatever term you used earlier) she can earn her own damn money instead of expecting you to finance her and treating you like crap when you don't hand over the cash.

Shocking attitude and one she alone is responsible for manifesting itself as your current sad situation. Sure, be there to pick up the pieces, but please put your foot down regarding this grabby emotionally manipulative behaviour

I agree with other posters that when you keep in touch keep it light and breezy, and not to give into demands for big chunks of money apart from that I can’t offer any advice.

Hi OP,

Like other posters I remember your previous thread. I'm sorry to hear the situation has escalated further.

It's a very common tactic for abusers to separate individuals from their family and friends. It enables them to have more control over the narrative of the relationship and "normalise" abusive behaviour because there is no-one close to the partner to offer a counterpoint and reality check on how toxic the relationship is.

In your case I think there's also an additional dimension. The isolation of your daughter also enables him to demonstrate his control of her to you. He's effectively blackmailing you and your DH by using money as the motivation for contact (as minimal as it is).

He doesn't want you to have access to your DD because it undermines his leverage on both keeping your DD bought into his narrative and his ability to blackmail you.

What can you do? Sadly very little whilst your DD is so invested in the relationship.

As pp's have said you need to tread a fine line to keep communication lines open whilst not giving into demands for money. Doing so would just reinforce the fact that isolating her from you is beneficial as it provides the financial benefits he's been trying to manipulate you into providing for years.

Send gifts for Christmas/Birthday (smallish amounts) but don't fund their lifestyle by buying freezers etc. Keep emails "warm" and non critical. Talk about what her siblings are doing - keep reminding her that she has a family who love and miss her.

Good luck

Thank you everybody for your advice.

I will be honest and say that, at the lowest ebb, when she cut off contact for no apparent reason ie no quarrel or anything, it did cross my mind to change my will. DH and I discussed it briefly, but felt we couldn't do that to her, DH thought she would feel rejected. Ironically, a few weeks later we had a close brush with death, but luckily escaped unscathed. However, it has changed my approach to life in some respects.

BF is all about telling DD1 to stand up for her rights. Her grandfather left dome money to DH to buy them all driving lessons/first car/ something for them. The girls knew about it and that they can have it whenever they want, but they have preferred us to look after it, keep it for a rainy day, and we have provided for them anyway.

DD1 suddenly demanded the money about a year ago, which of course we paid, and then she kept cross examining me and DH, asking why it wasn't in a separate account, how much interest were we paying her etc. Eventually, after we answered her questions, she said she was grateful. But it just wasn't what she would have said before, IYKWIM, like she no longer trusts us. She also told DD2 before they fell out that she has trust issues with me.

On a more positive note, I have received another friendly, chatty e-mail, the second in a week, and asking me to transfer the money for the freezer to her account........which I will do as otherwise, as a pp very accurately said, he will say it is more 'broken promises'.

It's a small price to pay for continued contact, swift.

Tbh I don't understand this 'cutting them out of the will' thing. That smacks of control to me, punishment. Yes it's a knee jerk reaction to acute pain - but hey, we're the grown ups here. We may not like our adult children's choices, which may be very painful to us, but we don't pull the rug out for poor behaviour.

Springy, I totally agree. I would not want to punish her at all, just concerned if we had died, then it wouldn't affect us obviously as we wouldn't know anything about it, but he would be throwing his weight around and upsetting my other DD.