Family rift - how to heal?

[Swiftswallows]

NC'd for this.

I am recently retired, happily married for many years and 3 adult DC, the youngest are still at uni and the eldest, DD1, graduated a few years ago. DD1 fell in love with one of her housemates in her 2nd year and he came to stay several times and they seemed happy.

DD1 said that she and BF wanted to buy a house together and would I give her some money. He had money from grandparents (about £35k) and she wanted me to give her a similar sum so that they could buy a house mortgage free in a part of the country where it is possible. Otherwise, BF had been thinking of buying jointly with his DP.

I wanted to help if I could so said I would let her have the money but it had to be expressed to be a loan as, if they split up or anything happened to her, then I would want the money to come back to the family and, if anything happened to me the money would have to come back into the estate, so that it could be taken account of and it would be fair to her siblings on distribution. She was happy with that and they found a house, a fixer upper, at a good price. I didn't see it, but saw the particulars. The offer was accepted and I withdrew money from my pension to help fund the purchase.

I then began to see a different side to BF. He wasn't keen on a Deed of Trust, was reluctant to have a structural survey (even though the agent had said there was a problem with the roof), and flatly refused to have any searches done. This and other incidents caused me to have concerns that DD1 might become trapped in a controlling relationship (I did have a thread on MN at the time and most posters thought there were a lot of 'red flags'). He and DD1 were also quarrelling a lot, the house purchase was causing a lot of tension, at a time when DD1 was about to take her Finals,, and things came to a head when she had been sobbing in her room for a long time and I effectively threw him out. First I asked nicely and then I said I would call the police if he did not leave, that I didn't like him, thought that he was controlling and not good enough for my daughter. So he left, giving me a horrible glare on the way out.

I was shaking, DD1 came out of the bathroom, where she had been sobbing for about half an hour and, after receiving a few texts from him, she went after him. They went to his DP who agreed to lend them the half of the purchase price that I was going to lend, the purchase completed and that was that.

I felt wretched afterwards, that I had let DD down by insulting the one she loved. I tried to ring him and sent various emails saying I was sorry, but he said he was too busy to reply. DD1 wanted us to make up and I thought we had, as best we could. I met him for a drink and said sorry and gave him a hug, this was just before DD1's graduation, and we attended the graduation together and a celebratory meal. I also offered DD1 the money to buy BF's DPs' share of the house and she asked BF but he said no.

They then came to stay with us a few times and I said to BF a few times I was very sorry again about asking him to leave, that I had just been overprotective, but I hoped we were ok and he said that we were. During one of these visits he looked at me and said his DPs wanted their money out of the house. DD1 also mentioned to me about buying the DPs out. However, I didn't have the money at that stage as I had put it towards our retirement home. I said to DD1 that I was worried about getting involved in another transaction because of the trouble it caused but, if I ever did, it would have to be on the same basis, but she shook her head. At that stage we still had, I thought, a close relationship, she said I was her 'best friend and role model', and she took me on a European city break for a couple of days for a Mother's Day' gift.

It was then DD2's graduation a year after DD1's (she is now a postgraduate). I had booked a hotel and a celebratory meal, all agreed with DD1, all everyone had to do was turn up and enjoy the occasion. But tensions began to arise. DD2 could only obtain 2 tickets for the graduation which she wanted me and DH to have so her BF and sister watched on the big screen in the bar. DD1 had acquired 2 dogs and had previously said they could no longer stay over but would come for the ceremony and the meal. They arrived just after the ceremony (DD1 said she was watching it on her mobile phone) and left half way through the meal. There was a bit of an atmosphere although DD1 had posed for photos happily. DD2 had asked DD1 to be there for her before the ceremony for moral support, she was very anxious, and felt a bit let down. DD1 said she and BF only wanted to come together and had rejected DH's suggestion that BF maybe catch a later train so the dogs would not be left alone too long. A few days later DH and I received emails from DD1 saying we didn't make BF welcome and also one from him saying how he would never forget being made to leave my house and my insults, and criticising DD2. DD2 has not spoken to DD1 since, she was so hurt that DD1 wouldn't be there for her, but said that would have probably blown over, but couldn't understand how DD1 would let BF send the email.

DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us. When DD1 visited, she didn't seem to want to discuss anything, but when I opened the conversation she said I had let her down over the house and nobody welcomed her life partner. She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.

I saw her with DD3 for a meal in February last year and DH and I went up to visit her for 2 days last April (we stayed in a hotel nearby), and all seemed fine. We invited BF to join us for dinner etc but he declined, but DD1 seemed fine and happy. She had drawn a lovely picture for me as a birthday present, which must have taken her hours, drove us to the station, hugged us and told us how much she loved us etc. She texted Happy Birthday a few days later, and then silence, for 6 whole months, did not reply to texts, phone calls, emails from anyone in the family. I had to ring the mobile 'phone company (I still have the contract) to see if she was ok. I was frantic, I went through a whole bereavement scenario, but also hated seeing other family members such as DH so hurt and bewildered.

Since she got back in touch, there have been a number of very long calls with everyone except DD2. BF and DP sold house which made a good profit and DD1 and BF have bought a house. DD1 did a lot of the work doing up the house and driving BF to DIY shops, as well as all cooking, cleaning etc. DD1 has a tiny share of the house to reflect small inheritance she put towards it, but the rest is owned by BF.

I have said to her in the conversations we want to try to get to know BF and suggested family counselling, said what can we do. Suggested we all went away somewhere and talk things through. She said BF might see us if we treat her right and she has also said to DH and me that she effectively wants money, that we let her down over the house etc. We have said that we don't have it at the moment (we have moved into the retirement home, but not sold house yet, that we want to help all of the DC when we can.

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'. They live simply and are planning to grow their own produce, but they still struggle to get by on JSA. I feel disappointed that they won't get jobs and are living off the taxes paid by nurses and teachers, and they know that we don't approve , but we have never rowed about this as such. DH and I are not interfering parents, we want DCs to be happy and fulfilled.

DD1 has not told us of her new address although she has said that she and BF are happy to update each other on our lives by email, as that is the level of contact they feel comfortable with. He doesn't want to see us and she doesn't see anyone without him as they 'come as a package'.

I don't know where we go from here. I suppose emails are better than the silence, and hopefully things will improve, but I struggle with it all. There have been several significant family occasions which DD1 has not attended. The family is incomplete but it has become the new normal. And I worry so much about DD1. She has no friends in the area they have moved to, no job, no security. On the other hand, she has somewhere to live and does seem happy.

So sorry this is so long. I know that in many ways there is nothing I can do, she must lead her own life, but I would be grateful for any words of wisdom, especially from anyone who has been in a similar position.

MyBonnie that is an amazing article - shows how fragile and risky the relationships with F&F are on the outside of an abusive relationship is and how getting it wrong, no matter how well intentioned, plays into the abusers hands, exacerbates the situation, distances the victim and exposes them to greater danger.

Very, very hard place to be as a mother when all you just want to do is storm in and rescue your vulnerable child. So important to be informed - puts you in a much more powerful place - all you can do is to look on with compassion, keep contact light, short & regular, don't rock the boast because it wont go the way you want.

You need support and knowledge to get you, your family and her friends through this.

Is there a "grapevine" opportunity?

Terf, thanks for your comments. I did post a long reply but then asked MN to remove it as it was too revealing. How have you dealt with your situation, if you don't mind my asking? I wish you all the best.

Bonnie, thank you so much for your post and for directing me to that brilliant article. The BF is also lazy and disrespectful. One of the things which concerned me, which I posted about on the earlier thread, was the circumstances in which he left his university placement job.

He was meant to be there for a year. At the end of the first week, he was involved in a fight. He said he was escorting home a female colleague late at night and a couple of men insulted her, so he stepped forward to reason with them. They attacked him and his arm was badly broken and needed repeated surgery. He told DD that he was drunk at the time, but actually he drinks very little.

Anyway, the company were very supportive, people visited him in hospital etc, and he had masses of sick leave, all of which was paid for. He was due to have a final surgery which was postponed, so he packed the job in a few months early. He said he would have stayed otherwise in order to have the sick pay. When he left, he deleted all of his files and sent a message 'Thank you for the fish', which has some reference to a film, I think, but was quite rude.

I later asked DD why he had done that, as I thought the company had treated him quite well, and she said she wasn't sure but thought that he felt he should have been given bigger projects to work on. He also criticised the management and corporate culture to us and seemed to hate anyone telling him what to do. He also took various other random days off sick when he wasn't sick, as my DD would be spending time with him (she was still at uni and had to drive quite a way to see him).

I think he is actually quite insecure as although he is obviously extremely intelligent, he has very poor social skills. He is very uncomfortable mixing with people. I don't think they socialise at all.

The article posted by Bonnie really resonated with me, and I so wish I had read it sooner, especially the bit about keeping low key, no pressure etc. As 20 said, and the article says, the instinct is to go in with all guns blazing to rescue your child. That is the mistake I made the first time over the house.

I fear I have just made another ghastly mistake. I sent her a long email saying how much I loved her and how terrible it was when she cut off contact, which I now see was stupid. I felt so angry and hurt, as the article describes, but if it makes her feel guilty it will drive her away. I feel wretched, just as a bit of contact has started going again.

I sent a brief message the next day, saying to ignore, as I was feeling tired and emotional, let's move forward not backwards. I so hope I haven't blown it again.

Thanks to you all for the support. My DH has been marvellous, but there is a limit to how much I can go on and on, because we just go round and round in circles. It is also great to have some independent views.

What a nightmare I have nothing to add to the good advice above but sympathy.

If you are a reader Swift read private papers by margaret Forster. She is a brilliant wise writer about women and families and your exact situation is depicted in that book. It's not you it's an awful thing that can happen. My girls are still young but this is a dread of mine.

Kerala, I am a great fan of Margaret Forster so thank you so much for the recommendation of the book, which I have already ordered.

You clearly don't know enough about domestic abuse/coercive control Terf to make such a statement

Springy I've posted several times about my past relationships with an abusive person and you've commented on those threads. I'm unfortunately all too familiar with the effect an abuser can have on you. I'm aware of the feelings of worthlessness, the gaslighting, the rages, the verbal insults ect. As you know yourself, that's nothing compared to what's coming when you dare to end the relationship.

Many people have or are in a relationship like that. I became convinced that I was worthless, that I deserved it, that nobody liked me. I became so convinced that I actually thought that everyone would be better off without me. I posted about that here. What I never became convinced of was that I was entitled to my parents money.

We see posts here frequently from women who are being badly abused, often severely financially abused. While they clearly need money they do not feel entitled to it. Even when it is for things like food for the their children, they are usually too ashamed to ask their parents for it. Because they believe their partner when he tells her she is a gold digger or a money grabbing bitch.

I know many people who have been in abusive relationships, and while there are many devastating effects of that on a woman, feeling entitled to money is not usually one of them. Needing money, yes. Being entitled to it, No.

That doesn't mean that boyfriend is not dysfunctional. His spiteful behaviour towards his boss is certainly a red flag. But it can mean that your daughter is in a dysfunctional relationship and is feeling entitled separately.

How have you dealt with your situation, if you don't mind my asking?

I don't think this is going to be what you want to hear op, but there is no longer contact. I began to feel quite ill with the stress and it consumed me. Eventually when I would no longer walk on eggshells and enable poor behaviour they cut off contact.

I know many people who have been in abusive relationships, and while there are many devastating effects of that on a woman, feeling entitled to money is not usually one of them. Needing money, yes. Being entitled to it, No.

I simply can't agree with you Terf bcs of my own experiences with an abusive controller. Suffice to say every moral compass of mine was smashed, upended; I behaved in ways that to me now are totally baffling, entirely out of character. I took on his values and promoted them, owned them as my own eg entitlement. I have to work hard to counter the shame I feel about the way I behaved in those years.

Op I eventually saw the light. Getting away from him was not pleasant but I did it. Many of us on here have done it, scores of women (usually women) in relationships like this eventually wake up and strive for life and health by getting out.

I have to work hard to counter the shame I feel about the way I behaved in those years.

I'm sorry to hear that Springy.

Op in a way it doesn't really matter what is causing this behaviour from your daughter because the effect on you is the same regardless. You are being held to ransom and emotionally blackmailed. That's not ok whatever the cause. Some of the conversations you describe would leave me in tears.

I really think the best thing to do is to put your own oxygen mask on first and accept that your daughter doesn't want rescuing and is for now, choosing to be in this relationship. I also think it's important to have very firm boundrys with her although I'm aware that you will probably feel like you are being unkind in doing so.

Not having firm boundrys is my biggest regret.There has been such awful behaviour (that I enabled) that I'm not sure I would ever be able to forgive. Things won't stay the same. You run the risk that eventually the worry, the walking on eggshells, the stress and humiliation at being treated this way will turn into anger. Once it does its very hard to find a way back from that.

Joshua Column has pretty good stategies about how to approach this agonising dynamic. They may seem counterintuitive but they work. Or at least they have the best hope of working.

Coleman

Terf, you are right. I do feel hurt and anger mixed with the love, but also frustration. All of this silence and isolation but, above all, helplessness. Why can't we just meet and talk things through.

I feel as though she has literally been kidnapped from all of her family and friends, and just have to pray that he is a benign captor, so that she is as happy as she can be.

If it helps at all, I gradually started to realise something wasn't quite right about my life. I had no idea what it was but I knew something was very wrong. It was a very difficult time, I felt I was losing my marbles. Eventually in company I said "something is really wrong and it's coming from him" and I pointed to my husband. Everyone went a bit ashen, including me, bcs ex was charm personified. It seriously looked like I was losing the plot.

The mind eh, it won't suppress things indefinitely. She'll know somewhere in her psyche that something isn't right.

Thanks daff, that helps a lot actually. Yes, I will pray!

Do not give her the money seems that's all her and bf want keep up with the emails suggest meeting he does seem controlling but sometimes uve got to just accept the changes xx

I was your DD, once upon a time. In fact, her BF could be the clone of my ex BF. Nasty, selfish, arrogant and lazy men do tend to follow the same behaviour patterns I suppose. My ex was almost a duplicate - obsessed with money, obsessed with his own comfort and his own wishes being fulfilled to the exclusion of all else. Looking back it was almost comical at times, if it wasn't so scary- the sheer rage and disbelief if people said "no" to him. Somewhere between a toddler and a psychopath. He was the same with jobs too- intelligent but lazy, thought he was too good for any jobs, looked down upon the "office drones" etc etc. Also had pie in the sky fantasies of moving away, living off the land.

Hated my family and friends, oh how he hated them, though they showed him nothing but kindness. Tried to turn me against them - for example I was doing my A Levels at the time and I had a Saturday job which I'd had for two years. It was a fifteen minutes walk away and I'd never thought twice about walking it. He got a bee in his bonnet about how evil and uncaring my parents were, refusing to give me a lift. How they had no concern for my safety, unlike him of course. That was just one thing out of many. He hated me going out with friends, or to family events, and would punish me for days if I went to them. The manipulation was epic. It's hard to describe unless it's happening to you.
He'd corner me, essentially, and sort of talk AT me for hours. My friends were whores, was I a whore too then? My family were lazy and selfish, they didn't care about me, if they did they'd do xyz. Any time I tried to argue back he'd have an answer for me in his weird, monotone voice with this disgusted look on his face.

I'd laugh at it now, but at the time I was young and I loved him. I'd also been raised in a close, loving family. I had good friends of both sexes, hobbies and interests, was successful at school. I was simply not prepared for someone like my ex. Nobody had ever spoken to me like that before. Nobody had ever attacked my nice, comfortable existence like that before. And the person who did was the (often intensely passionate and exciting-when we were alone) man I'd fallen in love with. I was totally out of my depth and so were my parents.

He expected a lot of my parents too, despite his hatred of them. He could barely be polite to their faces, but expected them to pay for his holidays, to pay half our rent when we moved in together etc. They didn't-kept it very amicable, were inwardly shrieking and wanting to murder him but outwardly it was a nice smile and "sorry we can't do that right now". He used to put me under immense pressure to ask them for things and I found it really really hard to deal with that. Because if I refused, my life would be a misery.

He nearly destroyed my life, but a few things saved me. I was a bit younger, and was living with my parents when we met, so mum and dad, who had the measure of him right away, had the opportunity to have a few gentle chats with me about relationships, his expectations etc. Some of it sunk in, though not right away. His influence was diluted though. Then the other thing was that I have a core of self preservation a mile wide. Well, some would call it selfishness actually. When we moved in together, he expected me to do everything while he played video games. That was his mistake- I was raised in a very equal home, and I was firm in the belief that I wasn't placed upon this earth to pick up any body's crap, not to mention that I would have preferred to laze about and not do any housework too! I was so infatuated with him that he didn't see it coming, and I put up with so much shit for years, but one day something snapped. I honestly don't know what triggered it, but something just went.. I realised that I liked myself and my own comfort more than I liked him. Within a month I'd moved back to my parents and enrolled in uni, three years too late but better late than never. I've never looked back since. He, meanwhile, moved on to an even sillier girl than me, from an even wealthier family, and sadly he has her trapped now with two small children. Still doesn't work. They're funded by her parents. I actually vaguely know her parents from elsewhere, and every time I see them they look more haggard. They live in constant fear of losing their dd and gc. I think she'll get out too though, eventually. Once she realises that in fact she holds the cards regarding the children and money and he's just a parasite whose only talent is the weird mind control he practices on his partners, which somehow he has managed to translate into cash

Hobnobs, thank you very much for sharing your experience and I am so pleased you escaped. I hope to God that my daughter does the same.

I have just seen my DD become more and more remote from me over the last couple of years.Even a year ago we were texting daily sending photos, recipes, just normal family stuff. Looking back over various occasions, I am sure that he has gradually manipulated the situation to turn her against her family. She has said that BF is her family now, that he talks a lot of sense and she sees us all differently. It is heartbreaking, as she used to love us and be proud to introduce her friends to us. He twists everything against us.

He likes to try to psycho analyse people from books etc and my DD believes everything he says. When he first came to stay, he told DD I was a certain personality type according to some theories he was studying at the time. DD encouraged me to take the on line test and I came out clearly as a different one from what he said but he didn't believe me.

When he was living in the student house which DD shared, he kept a notebook where he used to write notes and observations about the other students in the house, and make comments about their personalities.

He uses silence and ignoring people as a way of controlling them. He did it to my DD on several occasions and also to his own family once that I know of.

I feel that I have made a deadly enemy who is determined to control me too, and there is nothing I can do. I also hate seeing the effect on other family members.

Gough

Thanks Springy, sorry about the NC, but I thought the thread had petered out.

We did manage to speak to her a few days ago and have a chat, not about anything controversial, but at least it is contact. But she seems much more detached, harder somehow, as though she has got used to being without us in her life.

Are you the op Gough?

I think other posters who have suggested keeping communication breezy and light are onto a good idea. A weekly email from you with chat about what you have been up to (trips, holidays, meeting up with friends for coffee, cinema, exercise classes, meeting with her sisters etc) will eventually perhaps make her see what she is missing without actively spelling it out. Nothing emotional about the situation, nothing about her relationship or lifestyle, nothing about him.

This xxx

Thanks Rosie. That's good advice.

I have just finished reading 'Private Papers' by Margaret Forster, which a previous poster recommended. It is all about mother/daughter/sibling relationships, very well written and also quite painful, given that there are a lots of parallels.

I am starting counselling on Wednesday, which I am nervous about, but actually feel better for making the decision.

You are in the best place you can be Swift - in control - in contact - informed and prioritising looking after yourselves so that you can sustain this journey and be ready to catch her when the time comes xx

Thanks Another!

Just seen some updates - really glad you are going for the counselling OP, I really hope it helps. It must be frustrating that there is so little you can do, but in most situations in life we ultimately only really can change ourselves and how we interact with our environment. Hopefully it will help and support you and your place in your immediate family.

best wishes