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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family rift - how to heal?

140 replies

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 06:49

NC'd for this.

I am recently retired, happily married for many years and 3 adult DC, the youngest are still at uni and the eldest, DD1, graduated a few years ago. DD1 fell in love with one of her housemates in her 2nd year and he came to stay several times and they seemed happy.

DD1 said that she and BF wanted to buy a house together and would I give her some money. He had money from grandparents (about £35k) and she wanted me to give her a similar sum so that they could buy a house mortgage free in a part of the country where it is possible. Otherwise, BF had been thinking of buying jointly with his DP.

I wanted to help if I could so said I would let her have the money but it had to be expressed to be a loan as, if they split up or anything happened to her, then I would want the money to come back to the family and, if anything happened to me the money would have to come back into the estate, so that it could be taken account of and it would be fair to her siblings on distribution. She was happy with that and they found a house, a fixer upper, at a good price. I didn't see it, but saw the particulars. The offer was accepted and I withdrew money from my pension to help fund the purchase.

I then began to see a different side to BF. He wasn't keen on a Deed of Trust, was reluctant to have a structural survey (even though the agent had said there was a problem with the roof), and flatly refused to have any searches done. This and other incidents caused me to have concerns that DD1 might become trapped in a controlling relationship (I did have a thread on MN at the time and most posters thought there were a lot of 'red flags'). He and DD1 were also quarrelling a lot, the house purchase was causing a lot of tension, at a time when DD1 was about to take her Finals,, and things came to a head when she had been sobbing in her room for a long time and I effectively threw him out. First I asked nicely and then I said I would call the police if he did not leave, that I didn't like him, thought that he was controlling and not good enough for my daughter. So he left, giving me a horrible glare on the way out.

I was shaking, DD1 came out of the bathroom, where she had been sobbing for about half an hour and, after receiving a few texts from him, she went after him. They went to his DP who agreed to lend them the half of the purchase price that I was going to lend, the purchase completed and that was that.

I felt wretched afterwards, that I had let DD down by insulting the one she loved. I tried to ring him and sent various emails saying I was sorry, but he said he was too busy to reply. DD1 wanted us to make up and I thought we had, as best we could. I met him for a drink and said sorry and gave him a hug, this was just before DD1's graduation, and we attended the graduation together and a celebratory meal. I also offered DD1 the money to buy BF's DPs' share of the house and she asked BF but he said no.

They then came to stay with us a few times and I said to BF a few times I was very sorry again about asking him to leave, that I had just been overprotective, but I hoped we were ok and he said that we were. During one of these visits he looked at me and said his DPs wanted their money out of the house. DD1 also mentioned to me about buying the DPs out. However, I didn't have the money at that stage as I had put it towards our retirement home. I said to DD1 that I was worried about getting involved in another transaction because of the trouble it caused but, if I ever did, it would have to be on the same basis, but she shook her head. At that stage we still had, I thought, a close relationship, she said I was her 'best friend and role model', and she took me on a European city break for a couple of days for a Mother's Day' gift.

It was then DD2's graduation a year after DD1's (she is now a postgraduate). I had booked a hotel and a celebratory meal, all agreed with DD1, all everyone had to do was turn up and enjoy the occasion. But tensions began to arise. DD2 could only obtain 2 tickets for the graduation which she wanted me and DH to have so her BF and sister watched on the big screen in the bar. DD1 had acquired 2 dogs and had previously said they could no longer stay over but would come for the ceremony and the meal. They arrived just after the ceremony (DD1 said she was watching it on her mobile phone) and left half way through the meal. There was a bit of an atmosphere although DD1 had posed for photos happily. DD2 had asked DD1 to be there for her before the ceremony for moral support, she was very anxious, and felt a bit let down. DD1 said she and BF only wanted to come together and had rejected DH's suggestion that BF maybe catch a later train so the dogs would not be left alone too long. A few days later DH and I received emails from DD1 saying we didn't make BF welcome and also one from him saying how he would never forget being made to leave my house and my insults, and criticising DD2. DD2 has not spoken to DD1 since, she was so hurt that DD1 wouldn't be there for her, but said that would have probably blown over, but couldn't understand how DD1 would let BF send the email.

DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us. When DD1 visited, she didn't seem to want to discuss anything, but when I opened the conversation she said I had let her down over the house and nobody welcomed her life partner. She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.

I saw her with DD3 for a meal in February last year and DH and I went up to visit her for 2 days last April (we stayed in a hotel nearby), and all seemed fine. We invited BF to join us for dinner etc but he declined, but DD1 seemed fine and happy. She had drawn a lovely picture for me as a birthday present, which must have taken her hours, drove us to the station, hugged us and told us how much she loved us etc. She texted Happy Birthday a few days later, and then silence, for 6 whole months, did not reply to texts, phone calls, emails from anyone in the family. I had to ring the mobile 'phone company (I still have the contract) to see if she was ok. I was frantic, I went through a whole bereavement scenario, but also hated seeing other family members such as DH so hurt and bewildered.

Since she got back in touch, there have been a number of very long calls with everyone except DD2. BF and DP sold house which made a good profit and DD1 and BF have bought a house. DD1 did a lot of the work doing up the house and driving BF to DIY shops, as well as all cooking, cleaning etc. DD1 has a tiny share of the house to reflect small inheritance she put towards it, but the rest is owned by BF.

I have said to her in the conversations we want to try to get to know BF and suggested family counselling, said what can we do. Suggested we all went away somewhere and talk things through. She said BF might see us if we treat her right and she has also said to DH and me that she effectively wants money, that we let her down over the house etc. We have said that we don't have it at the moment (we have moved into the retirement home, but not sold house yet, that we want to help all of the DC when we can.

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'. They live simply and are planning to grow their own produce, but they still struggle to get by on JSA. I feel disappointed that they won't get jobs and are living off the taxes paid by nurses and teachers, and they know that we don't approve , but we have never rowed about this as such. DH and I are not interfering parents, we want DCs to be happy and fulfilled.

DD1 has not told us of her new address although she has said that she and BF are happy to update each other on our lives by email, as that is the level of contact they feel comfortable with. He doesn't want to see us and she doesn't see anyone without him as they 'come as a package'.

I don't know where we go from here. I suppose emails are better than the silence, and hopefully things will improve, but I struggle with it all. There have been several significant family occasions which DD1 has not attended. The family is incomplete but it has become the new normal. And I worry so much about DD1. She has no friends in the area they have moved to, no job, no security. On the other hand, she has somewhere to live and does seem happy.

So sorry this is so long. I know that in many ways there is nothing I can do, she must lead her own life, but I would be grateful for any words of wisdom, especially from anyone who has been in a similar position.

OP posts:
notanurse2017 · 20/01/2018 14:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Swiftswallows · 21/01/2018 06:24

Thanks nurse. What happened to your DD? I hope she is ok.

I don't think that DD1's BF is physically abusive, but he seems to control every aspect of her life, although she does seem happy. She seems to have gradually come round to the view that he is right about everything and what he says goes. When she called at Christmas and New Yea, she seemed so happy to be speaking to us and wanted to chat, her old self, but I had a feeling that she was being 'allowed' to speak to us, if that makes sense.

DD1 is so naive and trusting and I worry that her heart will be broken, but what can I do but be there for her. At least there is contact again, as others have said, we are lucky to have this. I can ask some subtle and inoffensive questions such as asking after her friends to see if she is in touch with them at all.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 21/01/2018 14:45

Well I'm getting on my knees and praying she does have her heart broken! If it means he buggers off out of her life then bring it on!

The ideal would be she sees the light and gives him the heave ho of course... But beggars can't be choosers eh

notanurse2017 · 22/01/2018 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 22/01/2018 15:03

Sorry OP, but am I the only person who thinks your DD1 needs a little tough love here? Who the hell does she think, refusing to get a job then demanding that you buy them a flipping freezer!?! After months of no contact? I think she's got you wrapped around her little finger and she knows it. The 'controlling' BF is a red herring. I think she's a little madam. Sorry.

Dojos · 22/01/2018 22:12

I mean this in the most respectful way possible. I speak from the point of view of a child going through a family break up for not dissimilar reasons.

You seem to have an awful lot of opinions about how your children live their lives. It doesn't mean you're wrong - but it can be very damaging to your relationship to keep voicing them, especially talking about your 3 children to the others. Keep voicing them and you will push her further away from you. I think I live a very tame life, a good job, 3 kids, never done drugs, a huge people pleaser - and my parents will always have negative opinions without realising what voicing them is doing to our relationship.

Right or wrong - she will feel controlled and judged by you. Whilst of course its true that there are controlling relationships, don't just assume that this is all the partners fault - I am sure you would be surprised at how much is coming from her too.

My parents offered money to buy a house and attached all sorts of unreasonable conditions. But they wanted more than a deed of trust - they wanted 50% ownership for a 10% deposit. My husband would of course have loved to buy a house but it's never been the end goal to take their money off them. So we turned them down and now they're furious. Anything other than an unconditional one off gift is poisonous to your relationship and to your child's marriage. I wish we had lived our marriage without their drip-fed financial support (even if I am ridiculous grateful for it then and now).

If you want to protect your money, and you are so SO in your rights to do so - keep it for yourself and leave it as inheritance if there is anything left.

Swiftswallows · 23/01/2018 05:43

Thanks springy and nurse, I am pleased your DD escaped from the relationship.

Dojos, I am very sorry to hear about your family situation but I don't think the position is the same regarding the house. I didn't want to own any of it, just that if anything were to happen to DD, God forbid, it would revert to the family (BF would obviously have his half) and if anything happened to me it would have to be taken account of in the estate, so the three DC got the same. DD and BF are not married. DD asked for the money, I did not offer it, but I did want to help.

I don't believe I've expressed any views about how my other DCs live their lives, but I think if you were to ask them they would say that we are supportive, not negative.

However, I do agree with you that this whole house scenario has been poisonous. The biggest mistake of my life was to agree to help financially in the first place and the second biggest was probably to change my mind. I would far rather have lost the money than the relationship with DD. But in my defence, I can honestly say that my motives were from love, not wanting to control anything- I never even viewed the house. I was afraid that if I went ahead DD would be trapped into an abusive relationship.

She is with BF 24/7, she has gradually become more and more cut off from friends and other family members, not just me. She doesn't go anywhere alone, as they are a 'package'. Neither of them have jobs, so they don't even go to work where they would meet other people. Yes, I am worried, but I agree that it would be wrong to make any negative comments. You on the other hand sound to be happily married to a good man with DC and a job. If I were your DP I would be very proud of you.

But yes I have made mistakes and nobody knows that more than I do.

OP posts:
Leilaniiii · 23/01/2018 06:06

It sounds like he is obsessed with your money. Do you think if the money disappeared that he would also?

bastardkitty · 23/01/2018 06:32

I think you have handled a nightmare situation as well as anyone could be expected to. It's not your fault at all. You showed your hand - that you could see him and call him on his behaviour, so he wants to annihilate you but also wants your money. Your daughter is allowing herself to be manipulated but I'm sure he is a very skilled manipulator. I wouldn't give money beyond token gifts. You can email Amazon vouchers as you cannot post things. Your handling of the situation is pretty much perfect. I so hope she finds a way to escape him. It's very painful for you. I feel so sad for you.

RiotAndAlarum · 23/01/2018 09:39

I remember your story, too, and sadly, it seems all too plausible that it's escalated. Other posters have been speaking a lot of sense with the keep-in-contact and keep-it-light advice. I wonder if you could show an interest in her sustainable/ off-grid lifestyle... maybe ask what new skills she's learning, remind her that you're retired now, so could learn to crochet or chicken-keep at the same time as her. If the skill is low-value and un-manly enough, it wouldn't threaten the BF, but would give you and your DD something to bond over, something you could ask her advice about, which could rebuild her self-esteem.

Meanwhile, please don't forget your other DDs. You've tried to protect them financially from their sister's demands on you and their father, but things like the ski-ing trip with them and their boyfriends are really good treats to continue, so they know you appreciate having them in your life, independent of the shit their sister 's boyfriend pulls. Smile

springydaffs · 23/01/2018 16:22

Ah great post riot

username7979 · 23/01/2018 16:47

You saw through his bullshit from the start.

If you give them money you enable the situation to carry on.

In the end, with no money he will most probably loose interest in you daughter. I understand that at the moment money is the backbone of your relationship with your daughter too. You must find a way to be able to get in touch with her, and letting her know you are here for her while not involving money. Easier said than done.

Swiftswallows · 24/01/2018 05:18

Thank you so much for your messages, especially for your support Kitty and your extremely sensible advice Riot. Sorry for the delay in replying but there was a significant family occasion yesterday, yet another which DD1 has sadly missed.

I totally agree with those posters who say that, lovely though my daughter is, BF is out for what he can get. DD1 was not actually that bothered when I withdrew from the house purchase, her main concern was that I and BF should get on. She said the house still felt like home. He was the one who was bitter about it - I don't really know why, as he still owned what he would have owned and has not lost out at all.

However, he has gradually drip fed my daughter the message that she was entitled to the money, that we have let her down, and that her family- not just me, all of us - are inferior to his and not to be trusted.

I absolutely agree that he must be made to accept that there is no money available and, indeed, now we are retired, we do have to be much more careful, especially as we are still supporting her sisters in full time education. I have said to DD1 that we are not rich, we are comfortable, but any money needs to last us until we die and we might need care. I have previously said that I love her and will always be there for her, but I will not 'buy' her love. She said she hated asking me for money and I honestly believe that BF persuaded her to cut us off for 6 months, in order to persuade us otherwise.

I have found the comments on here so helpful. Riot, you are absolutely right about trying to engage with her interests. I had, in fact, asked for her advice about our garden and she has sent lots of tips and photos. I will keep it low key and loving but also stress that no money is available, and hope he loses interest. I do need to take a long view, but it is so hard sometimes.

OP posts:
princesssparkle1 · 24/01/2018 05:33

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'

Then I'm sure they won't want money given to them from anyone who has been a wage slave.

Stella60 · 24/01/2018 06:06

So sorry to read your story, sounds like a nightmare dilemma. I can only say keep up the contact, pass no judgement and be there for her. I'm not sure how he copes with justifying taking your earned money but I really hope that she sees him for what he is very soon. Really feel for you

NoKnownFather · 24/01/2018 06:11

Swiftswallows I've been in a similar situation and although it was extremely difficult I didn't handover any cash either. Back in the early days, DD's DH 'told' me to get a second mortgage as he wanted to start a new business but when I said 'if' I was to put money into a new business venture it would be a 'loan' to be repaid and that I would be a legal partner until that loan was repaid. Oh no.....he said in no uncertain terms that my name wouldn't be on 'anything' as I would be a 'silent partner'. He must have thought I came down in the last shower and I got the deathly stare like you did and contact, was noticeably less and less.

Btw, he went ahead with the new business, don't know who put up the $$$, but it folded in less than a year (as I had predicted because he didn't have any business experience) and they disappeared overnight. Poof gone!! After searching for several years I finally found them, he had declared bankruptcy (apparently a couple of times) and this was 'all my fault' even though I didn't know where they were living.

When they moved to their new area, he told (and coerced DD to tell) new friends etc that her DM (me) had passed away. By now, his father got in touch with me and, he too, expected me to give him money to buy a car...I had only met the old codger once at the wedding and then only for a few minutes. Yes, I checked in the mirror and there was NO tattoo on my forehead stating 'Fools bank, get your loans here'.

During the time I was 'dead' I unwittingly posted a Happy Birthday DD notice in the newspaper where they lived and apparently this caused some problems....as everyone thought I was dead! Of course, I wasn't aware of this when I posted the notice and had only done so in the hope she 'might' get in touch. DD is sooooo under his control it's gone beyond anything I know how to deal with and I haven't heard from her for many years....not easy when birthdays/anniversaries/etc come around but nothing I can do and I've just had to 'suck it up' which is NOT easy.

Very recently I checked their address online and discovered they have sold their house so who knows where they are now....I'll die wondering, but not a thing I can do but you have to stay strong otherwise you will dissolve into a spot in the corner.

People who have never been through the horrible anguish, are only too ready to blame you, but don't take it from them. I found some of these people (including my adoptive mother) had actually helped DD in pretending to be friends with me, gathering information and taking it back to her. Once I realised I cut 'all' ties with those people for my own sanity.

Unfortunately we can teach our DC's right from wrong, teach them to be good people etc, but when they are adults and meet DPs all that learning goes out the window. Hopefully your DD will 'see the light' someday and you have all the happy ever afters, but in the meantime look after yourself, DH and the other DD's. Wishing you all the best, but don't hold your breath....at least while her DP is in the picture. Flowers

Swiftswallows · 24/01/2018 08:42

What a heart breaking story NotKnown. You are very brave to share it. I hope in reaching your decision you have found some peace.

Yes, I am keeping the other family members as close as I can and doing things with the other DDs and including their BFs etc. I don't think I could go through all this again, but I suppose you can't do anything but suffer, be patient and hope.

OP posts:
RiotAndAlarum · 24/01/2018 10:04

@Swiftswallows oh, I'm glad you have gardening in common! (I would struggle to get either of my DC to believe I was interested in that! 😋)

@NoKnownFather Sad

Swiftswallows · 24/01/2018 10:14

I don't, but we enjoy cooking and eating, she and DH used to share recipes.

OP posts:
redshoeblueshoe · 24/01/2018 12:31

Swift I remember your previous threads and I'm so sorry that this is still going on. I hope she wakes up one day and sees his behaviour for what it is.

Swiftswallows · 26/01/2018 03:39

Thanks red, I remember your name and that you were very supportive at the time. I had the previous threads deleted as I felt they were too identifying.

OP posts:
Terfinater · 26/01/2018 06:00

I feel for you Op. I'm in a similar position.

Parents who are estranged from their children are often perceived as abusive and unsupportive. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they are the complete opposite. They are kind and supportive, and sometimes that support goes too far. Your daughter, like many others, probably is in a abusive relationship. I really feel it is taking it too far to suggest that she has been brainwashed to this degree. I think you are doing her a huge disservice to consider her a total victim and not at least equally responsible for the financial blackmail that is happening.

Your daughter has decided she's not going to work. That's not that unusual, but what is unusual is that she expected to be bought a house. She expects you to fund her lifestyle and she asks intrusive questions about your finances. That's entitled and really not ok in an adult that age.

The crying incident and asking him to leave. I don't understand why you apologized to him several times about this. He was in your home, arguing with your daughter to the point she was in tears. Most parents wouldn't put up with this. They should have apologized to you. That's not acceptable behaviour at all. And for all your daughters posturing, you're not obliged to have him in your home.

Your daughter believes she is going to blackmail you into giving her money and that money is how you should express your love. Where has that attitude come from? The conversation she had with you about the birthday money was horrible. I would not have opened the cards nor transferred the money. You really are putting up with some dreadful behaviour here, and it is not kind to her to let that continue

I understand why, I really do.There are several forums about this and most of the parents on them say the same thing. They have all been good parents.They usually went above and beyond what was expected, often due to guilt or fear of abandonment. These young adults often grow up to be exploitive and entitled. There was a thread on here recently from a woman in a similar position to you. She was elderly with terminal cancer and it had gone on her entire life, and was still happening even as she was terminally ill.

It's time to start saying No to her. No more threats of not seeing non existent grandchildren. No more threats of no contact, no more grovelling to boyfreind or allowing her to financially exploit you. No more sending money to an adult who refuses to get a job. That's enabling behaviour on your part. You can either continue this financially exploitive relationship with her, or move towards a more healthier one. It's entirely reasonable for you to point out these behaviours are not ok.

Swiftswallows · 26/01/2018 06:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

springydaffs · 26/01/2018 09:34

I really feel it is taking it too far to suggest that she has been brainwashed to this degree.

You clearly don't know enough about domestic abuse/coercive control Terf to make such a statement.

MyBonnieLiesOverTheOcean · 26/01/2018 10:36

Swifts - everything you have posted previously about your daughter sounds like she is a lovely girl, but rather naive & anxious and easily manipulated. If you do not think that the demands for money are the kind of thing she would have considered saying before meeting him then it absolutely does sound like his influence is affecting her behaviour.

I really feel for you. A family member of mine was in a relationship with a man who I did not trust. He wasn't physically abusive, but was lazy and disrespectful and that combined with her easy going people-pleasing nature led to a very unbalanced relationship. She is out of it now thankfully, but I could see how much worse it would have become if she had stayed.

Have you read this article? It is not all relevant, but I thought you may find it interesting...especially the end section about "Family and Friends of the Victim".

drjoecarver.makeswebsites.com/clients/49355/File/love_and_stockholm_syndrome.html