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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family rift - how to heal?

140 replies

Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 06:49

NC'd for this.

I am recently retired, happily married for many years and 3 adult DC, the youngest are still at uni and the eldest, DD1, graduated a few years ago. DD1 fell in love with one of her housemates in her 2nd year and he came to stay several times and they seemed happy.

DD1 said that she and BF wanted to buy a house together and would I give her some money. He had money from grandparents (about £35k) and she wanted me to give her a similar sum so that they could buy a house mortgage free in a part of the country where it is possible. Otherwise, BF had been thinking of buying jointly with his DP.

I wanted to help if I could so said I would let her have the money but it had to be expressed to be a loan as, if they split up or anything happened to her, then I would want the money to come back to the family and, if anything happened to me the money would have to come back into the estate, so that it could be taken account of and it would be fair to her siblings on distribution. She was happy with that and they found a house, a fixer upper, at a good price. I didn't see it, but saw the particulars. The offer was accepted and I withdrew money from my pension to help fund the purchase.

I then began to see a different side to BF. He wasn't keen on a Deed of Trust, was reluctant to have a structural survey (even though the agent had said there was a problem with the roof), and flatly refused to have any searches done. This and other incidents caused me to have concerns that DD1 might become trapped in a controlling relationship (I did have a thread on MN at the time and most posters thought there were a lot of 'red flags'). He and DD1 were also quarrelling a lot, the house purchase was causing a lot of tension, at a time when DD1 was about to take her Finals,, and things came to a head when she had been sobbing in her room for a long time and I effectively threw him out. First I asked nicely and then I said I would call the police if he did not leave, that I didn't like him, thought that he was controlling and not good enough for my daughter. So he left, giving me a horrible glare on the way out.

I was shaking, DD1 came out of the bathroom, where she had been sobbing for about half an hour and, after receiving a few texts from him, she went after him. They went to his DP who agreed to lend them the half of the purchase price that I was going to lend, the purchase completed and that was that.

I felt wretched afterwards, that I had let DD down by insulting the one she loved. I tried to ring him and sent various emails saying I was sorry, but he said he was too busy to reply. DD1 wanted us to make up and I thought we had, as best we could. I met him for a drink and said sorry and gave him a hug, this was just before DD1's graduation, and we attended the graduation together and a celebratory meal. I also offered DD1 the money to buy BF's DPs' share of the house and she asked BF but he said no.

They then came to stay with us a few times and I said to BF a few times I was very sorry again about asking him to leave, that I had just been overprotective, but I hoped we were ok and he said that we were. During one of these visits he looked at me and said his DPs wanted their money out of the house. DD1 also mentioned to me about buying the DPs out. However, I didn't have the money at that stage as I had put it towards our retirement home. I said to DD1 that I was worried about getting involved in another transaction because of the trouble it caused but, if I ever did, it would have to be on the same basis, but she shook her head. At that stage we still had, I thought, a close relationship, she said I was her 'best friend and role model', and she took me on a European city break for a couple of days for a Mother's Day' gift.

It was then DD2's graduation a year after DD1's (she is now a postgraduate). I had booked a hotel and a celebratory meal, all agreed with DD1, all everyone had to do was turn up and enjoy the occasion. But tensions began to arise. DD2 could only obtain 2 tickets for the graduation which she wanted me and DH to have so her BF and sister watched on the big screen in the bar. DD1 had acquired 2 dogs and had previously said they could no longer stay over but would come for the ceremony and the meal. They arrived just after the ceremony (DD1 said she was watching it on her mobile phone) and left half way through the meal. There was a bit of an atmosphere although DD1 had posed for photos happily. DD2 had asked DD1 to be there for her before the ceremony for moral support, she was very anxious, and felt a bit let down. DD1 said she and BF only wanted to come together and had rejected DH's suggestion that BF maybe catch a later train so the dogs would not be left alone too long. A few days later DH and I received emails from DD1 saying we didn't make BF welcome and also one from him saying how he would never forget being made to leave my house and my insults, and criticising DD2. DD2 has not spoken to DD1 since, she was so hurt that DD1 wouldn't be there for her, but said that would have probably blown over, but couldn't understand how DD1 would let BF send the email.

DD1 visited alone fleetingly after Christmas 2016. She had called me after I sent Advent gifts to say what should she do with BF's as he didn't want anymore to do with us. When DD1 visited, she didn't seem to want to discuss anything, but when I opened the conversation she said I had let her down over the house and nobody welcomed her life partner. She said 'you are rich, why don't you just give me the money?' Also that BF didn't want to have any contact with any family members at all. I said how does that work, what if you get married, won't we be invited, she was upset, said 'I don't know, mum'. We hugged, she said she loved me, but she also said that BF talked a lot of sense and she saw us all differently now. We had a nice family day, I thought, the next day, I saw her off at the station and again we hugged, said we loved each other etc. We were still texting daily.

I saw her with DD3 for a meal in February last year and DH and I went up to visit her for 2 days last April (we stayed in a hotel nearby), and all seemed fine. We invited BF to join us for dinner etc but he declined, but DD1 seemed fine and happy. She had drawn a lovely picture for me as a birthday present, which must have taken her hours, drove us to the station, hugged us and told us how much she loved us etc. She texted Happy Birthday a few days later, and then silence, for 6 whole months, did not reply to texts, phone calls, emails from anyone in the family. I had to ring the mobile 'phone company (I still have the contract) to see if she was ok. I was frantic, I went through a whole bereavement scenario, but also hated seeing other family members such as DH so hurt and bewildered.

Since she got back in touch, there have been a number of very long calls with everyone except DD2. BF and DP sold house which made a good profit and DD1 and BF have bought a house. DD1 did a lot of the work doing up the house and driving BF to DIY shops, as well as all cooking, cleaning etc. DD1 has a tiny share of the house to reflect small inheritance she put towards it, but the rest is owned by BF.

I have said to her in the conversations we want to try to get to know BF and suggested family counselling, said what can we do. Suggested we all went away somewhere and talk things through. She said BF might see us if we treat her right and she has also said to DH and me that she effectively wants money, that we let her down over the house etc. We have said that we don't have it at the moment (we have moved into the retirement home, but not sold house yet, that we want to help all of the DC when we can.

DD1 have not had jobs since leaving uni as they don't want to be 'wage slaves' or 'mortgage monkeys'. They live simply and are planning to grow their own produce, but they still struggle to get by on JSA. I feel disappointed that they won't get jobs and are living off the taxes paid by nurses and teachers, and they know that we don't approve , but we have never rowed about this as such. DH and I are not interfering parents, we want DCs to be happy and fulfilled.

DD1 has not told us of her new address although she has said that she and BF are happy to update each other on our lives by email, as that is the level of contact they feel comfortable with. He doesn't want to see us and she doesn't see anyone without him as they 'come as a package'.

I don't know where we go from here. I suppose emails are better than the silence, and hopefully things will improve, but I struggle with it all. There have been several significant family occasions which DD1 has not attended. The family is incomplete but it has become the new normal. And I worry so much about DD1. She has no friends in the area they have moved to, no job, no security. On the other hand, she has somewhere to live and does seem happy.

So sorry this is so long. I know that in many ways there is nothing I can do, she must lead her own life, but I would be grateful for any words of wisdom, especially from anyone who has been in a similar position.

OP posts:
Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 18:17

Thank you so much all of you for your kind and sensible advice. It means such a lot to me, as you completely 'get it' whereas I thought I was losing the plot.

I think I need to be cautious and go along with things to keep the contact, but not to commit to anything too much, and hope that things will improve with time.

OP posts:
Swiftswallows · 17/01/2018 18:18

No, BF doesn't get on any better with DH, unfortunately.

OP posts:
another20 · 17/01/2018 18:25

If you have n't already it might be good to get yourself (and your family) all read up and informed on abusive/coercive/controlling relationships so that you wont have to second guess his next move and also be best placed to help your daughter rather than drive her to him. There are quite a few resources and books mentioned on these threads that would help.
You might have to prepare yourself for the long game realistically.

SometimesMaybe · 17/01/2018 18:37

I think I remember your last post too. You did the right thing not giving them any money then.

She is clearly being controlled but at the moment I don’t think you can do anything about that. If sending (small) amounts of money at birthdays and Xmas keep the communication lines open (and you can afford it) I would continue to do that. I wouldn’t try to engage with him if possible but end every email with a simple sentence to the effect that her family love her and will always be there for her no matter what. Hopefully one day she will be ready to leave him and your sporadic contact and knowledge that you love her will make her brave enough to come to you (or her sisters).

ultrareal · 17/01/2018 18:45

Swifts my heart goes out to you. Been in this exact situation and I know how much it hurts everyone involved. Sadly it didn't end well and I'm not sure what anyone could have done differently... but feel free to DM me if you want to talk privately.

Caselgarcia · 17/01/2018 18:49

This must be so difficult for you, but she has to be the one that realises she is in an unhealthy controlling relationship. I would stay in contact, not make any demands but restrict my support. Keep emails light and informative about how well the rest of the family are doing, how you all are getting on , holidays, sisters job, what her uni friends are doing now etc
Surely someone who has been to uni wants to get on and be successful at work and travel etc. The more she hears about how successful and happy her friends and family are, hopefully she will see what she is missing.
Don't try too hard, her BF seems to enjoy controlling you too. Back off and when you do email her, keep it short and stop apologizing!

Aminuts23 · 17/01/2018 18:56

OP you sound lovely and thoughtful. What an awful situation. I believe any communication between you at this stage that with of them would perceive as challenging will result in a loss of contact so be very careful here. Stay calm and as supportive as you can without pandering to demands. I’m outraged on your behalf she wants £350 and won’t even tell you where she lives. I think you and your family will have to wait this out. Make sure you stay in touch so that when the inevitable happens and she opens her eyes, she knows she can come to you. Don’t leave her isolated with this vile man. Very very hard right now. I’m so sorry Flowers

isadoradancing123 · 17/01/2018 21:23

Do not give them any money, he is totally manipulating her. The wages of slavery would totally annoy me

springydaffs · 17/01/2018 21:26

Being annoyed is a luxury you can't afford in a situation like this.

trojanpony · 17/01/2018 22:00

I think I remember your previous posts...

This must be a heartbreaking situation and sounds so very very sad.
You have done nothing wrong ringfencing the money it was absolutely sensible.

Agree with others - do not bank transfer money in cards and do not give her money for birthday or Christmas. I’d also be inclined to buy things that can’t be sold. (Handbag but with her initials stamped on it, necklace with an inscription or her name on it etc)

You are just enabling her further I would make it clear you were there and would offer support etc but nothing that can translate to cash (I know it feels mean in the moment but every time you give her money you are actually helping push her further away)

trojanpony · 17/01/2018 22:02

Ignore the fact she ignored it.

I’d continue to offer counselling. On repeat. And stress how much she means to you and you’d like to talk more /see her more

MerryInthechelseahotel · 17/01/2018 22:10

You have some good advice here op. I hope she sees him in his true light soon. It must be very hard for you Thanks

springydaff · 18/01/2018 00:47

No don't stress anything. Be laid back and natural, as if nothing is wrong.

A lot of the advice on here is just dangerous in a situation like this. I can't stress enough that normal rules don't apply. Think hostage negotiations - you don't rock the boat on any account, you don't lay in with rights or demands or emotional anything. You keep everything as calm as possible. You do NOT show your distress or concern or lay it on that she's in a controlling situation. You don't do emotional anything, as I said.

Mylady · 18/01/2018 05:59

I to remember your othet threads. I personally eould transefer the money and a 'normal' amount of birthday /christmas money - its not a life changing or long lerm life style suppirting amount of money anyway is it ? I would just try to maintain gentle email contact - treat her as your daughter but keep telling the truth - you love her and are there for her but you are not handing over large sums of money.

iamafraidofvirginiawolves3cats · 18/01/2018 06:27

I am stunned to discover neither has jobs but are looking for handouts from people they won’t even speak to, unless they have no money for Christmas and need a bung.

I wouldn’t give this man any more money. Give your child birthday and Christmas money. Don’t offer to buy things for the house, he is mugging you off and no doubt laughing about it. You have done nothing wrong by not giving her the money originally and have nothing to feel bad about.

Vile man. Let her know you love her and you miss her and she should call you when she has time for a chat, day or night.

You sound really lovely. I am so sorry this has happened to your daughter and brought you sadness.

SenoritaViva · 18/01/2018 06:37

Poor you. Just wanted to say none of this is your fault.
Maintain light contact, small amounts of money and hope and pray she sees things for how they really are.

springydaff · 18/01/2018 06:39

I am stunned to discover neither has jobs but are looking for handouts from people they won’t even speak to, unless they have no money for Christmas and need a bung.

Because he's a sick individual. Not badly behaved but sick. He is currently controlling op's daughter - if op locks horns with him she risks losing her daughter. He has already made it very clear he would do this ie encourage - or should I say, demand - op's daughter to cut ties.

Then she's stuck in the back of beyond with no money and trapped by a complete and frightening nutter.

I know what I'd rather do - keep him sweet at any cost to save my girl.

NB she'll come round eventually. It's not knowing how long it'll take that is the agony. As I said, do you pray.

Pannacott · 18/01/2018 07:52

What a horrible situation for you, and her. I'd agree with what other people say: don't give any large amounts of money; do give small amounts fairly often (to keep communication open); don't apologise - that buys into his narrative that you've done something wrong when you haven't; write to her fairly often with information about what you've all been up to, that you love her very much, always have and always will, that you look forward to seeing her whenever she'd like to see you. Maybe something light about how lives can take different paths but your love for her never changes (and other types of code - people feel terribly guilty and ashamed when they are in abusive relationships). Obviously he will be reading it all. I'm sorry you are going through this.

eggsandwich · 18/01/2018 07:54

As hard as it will be I think you need to play the long waiting game, the boyfriend is very clever and devious and it will just take your daughter longer to realise.

Under no circumstances give them any money, if they choose to be self sufficient and not “wage slaves” or “mortgage monkeys” then let them be, any birthday cards that arrive for her don’t forward them on say I don’t like opening other people’s mail, and any birthday or Christmas money from you just open a separate account to put it in so when she eventually has a light bulb moment she has something to fall back on.

Do not buy a freezer if you must give a gift a gift card is totally acceptable, and if she brings up about money shut the conversation down and say you are not our only child and I will not discuss finances with you.

But I think I would be incline for her to do the running and leave her to initiate contact with you, it will be hard but at the moment the boyfriend is pulling her strings and in return she’s pulling yours.

Pannacott · 18/01/2018 07:57

Oh and I absolutely would get counselling for yourself, someone with experience in abusive relationships and also bereavement. This is a terrible situation for you. Therapy can only help you preserve the rest of your family unit, and your own sanity as you play this awful waiting game.

Swiftswallows · 18/01/2018 07:58

Thank you all so much. It really helps to have your support and to those who have said don't blame myself, it would have happened anyway, which is exactly what the rest of the family say. At the very least, I will stop torturing myself, it has been like the same scene going round and round on a loop in my head, 'what if?'

I agree that it is a hostage situation (thanks Springy) and that normal rules don't apply. I also agree that once he has what he wants, ie a substantial sum of money, I might well have to kiss goodbye to my DD as well. But I will and have to do whatever it takes to keep any sort of contact, so that she knows we are here for her if she needs us. I kept saying on the phone how much I loved her and she said well why aren't you showing it, I said what do you mean and she said you can work it out. It didn't sound like her, I felt I was being emotionally blackmailed. I will give small sums where appropriate.

I think I do need to keep it light and breezy, not let him see how much power he has over us. I feel so desperately sad, but know it's not about me, it's about her, and all I can do is be there.

I can't take her out for lunch or anything, whoever suggested it, because she won't see me without him and he won't see us at the moment.

Maybe they will run out of money without jobs, as a PP suggested, which might ultimately cause the relationship to implode. But then as she says he is happy am I wrong to hope the relationship ends? Maybe I am wrong about him and read things wrong. In the email he sent, he said that DD1 and he were planning to start a family in a couple of years, which I read as a threat that I wouldn't see any DGC either, but then worried if I were being paranoid, but why would he say that?

It's just that she has done nothing since she left uni, a couple of weeks work the Christmas before last, no education, no travel, has barely seen friends, she was due to see friends and DD3 a while ago but pulled out at the last minute. DD3 has said she might visit so maybe that is an avenue but it's not fair to put any pressure on DD3 or turn her into a 'flying monkey', she has to go because she wants to.

DD1 when she spoke to DH referred to him ie DH as being 'head of the household' and said that he hadn't done anything bad but nor had he done anything good and seemed to be blaming him for not 'intervening'. She also referred to BF as being 'in charge', all of which worries me. DH said to her it's not the nineteenth century, but I don't understand why she has this idea at all - I and DD2 and DD3 are all determined feminists and DH and I have always been an equal partnership.

OP posts:
Swiftswallows · 18/01/2018 08:00

Pannacott, yes you are right, it is a waiting game, and that is so hard. DD3 thinks I should seek counselling.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 18/01/2018 09:45

Characters like this brainwash their target - so eg the victims beliefs are (temporarily) washed away and replaced with the beliefs of the abuser. Hence archaic language like 'head of the household'. They are a cult of two: he the leader, she the proselyte.

Yes I think the reference to children was blackmail. You are very fortunate there is contact, it is fragile, don't do anything to jeopardise it (I'm sure you don't intend to! But sometimes feelings and hurt - and outrage - can boil over and you can end up being critical or upset: don't!)

Take a look at Joshua Coleman's letter of amends, see if you feel it appropriate to fashion one? Not bcs you need to but bcs he is mad. I'm not saying your should send a letter of amends - you have already apologised numerous times - but the whole concept may be an idea to familiarise yourself with?

He is mad, an egomaniac, who has your girl. Keep him sweet Flowers

springydaffs · 18/01/2018 09:50

Counselors don't necessarily understand this dynamic from the parents perspective - unfortunately contemporary therapy is still steeped in blaming the parent. So pick your therapist carefully and thoroughly interview them first - have a look at the BACP website to see a list of therapists in your area.

springydaffs · 18/01/2018 09:56

You haven't got him wrong, sadly Sad