Article in Guardian about black men not dating black women

[CharizMa]

Sorry cant link on my phone but i thought it was interesting and sad that yet again men hold all the power in dsting. Im white in ireland so im not dating black men or any men at all as the ones who message me are all so much older and look like lifers and send messages that dont win u over. I guess im just saying that i cant imagine what it must be like for it to be WORSE than it is. Why do men get to do all the choosing?

It’s not about men holding all the power it’s about people having their own preferences. If a black man is more attractive to a non-black woman, why should he have any obligation to be with a black woman? Works the same way for woman. No one can force you to be attracted to someone you’re not.

If you mean the one about the swingers club in Dunstable I’ve just finished reading it and still have no clue what her point was.

I did gather a few of her views:

White women who fancy black men are fetishising them therefore are racist. White women who don’t fancy black men are racist.

Most people fancy other people of the same race. This is racist.

Wayne doesn’t know his own mind and doesn’t actually enjoy sex, he has low self esteem.

Dunstable has hidden depths.

Her pal Sarah is a massive snob.

Well i agree that that there seemed to be various issues thrown in to the one article.

But i don't think we just shrug over men continually choosing much younger women or black men choosing to message white women.

Contraversial it seems but at 27 i felt something like a 'responsibility' not to date a 41 year old even tho he might have seemed refreshingly keen. I think i have always felt 'sisterly' in my approach to dating.

It is probably far to contraversial to suggest that women consider where it leaves older women and/or black women if they date an older black man.

Nobody can force anybody to date somebody they dont want to date but we all pick the best of what's available and society endorses a system where men have a bigger choice.

It's society that puts them in that privileged position.

Ps that club sounded too weird for me. Id rather interview black women who are just trying to find a committed partner. Going to a seedy club and making conclusions on the strength of that depressing experience are bound to be a bit jaundiced i guess.

In relationship terms people have their preferences and it's a big fetish for a certain number of white men, to see their wives/girlfriends with black men.

Black women who want to date black men, have their choice. If one black man won't date them..another black man will. I say this as a black woman.

I'm not sure I'd say men hold all the cards at all.

Women decide who they want.

Re the article....The guys go there for easy sex. It feeds their ego to have married women craving sex with them and their husbands watching. It's a great power trip.

You only have to see the number of cuckold forums...(Some specific to interracial/BBC) you see whst a huge thing this is. Couples looking for black bulls.

black men choosing to message white women.

That's their choice surely? Why would it be anybody else's business.

People hook up eith who they want for their own reasons.... and I don't believe in generalising.

There are black women who only date white guys too..or black men who only date Asian women.

We all have our 'type' ... although I know some people relax their preferences as they get older.

I've heard it from people quite a bit actually .

AneelovesGilbert That covers the gist of the article very well. I almost stopped reading it this morning it was so confused with mixed messages. Going to a sleazy swingers club and using a very niche fetish (white women who want to be "serviced" by black men) as the basis to claim that "As a black woman I am always fetishised: racism in the bedroom" was so tenuous and made no logical sense.

No one in that club was dating - it was a swingers night!!!

Of course people can date who they want but I do have sympathy for black women who see so many successful black men choose a white partner. As though a white partner is another indication of having made it.

I would bet that far more black men date white women than black women date white men.

Once I said to a 'right on' bf (in the 90s) that I observed that much more often than the other way around and he interpreted it as racist. He was cruel to individuals and campaigned for groups - one of those. A Strange combo to me, I always got to know people, felt kindness, apathy, aversion according to the level of connection that was or wasn't there. Anyway...

As for the article again, I think it was a bit um, yeh, there's always a 'market' and a supply for literally ANY thing you can think of that will 'get you off' (sorry don't know how to phrase it).

A really interesting article would be to talk to more real women. Not the kind of women who end up in underground clubs on a rainy Tuesday night but just black women who have it all sewn up except the relationship. But who am I to suggest to journos what they write about.

CharizMa you are right but that might involve actually seeking out women, spending a lot of time listening to stories, editing them into a coherent narrative - you know some actual journalism rather than just a quick written opinion piece. The quality of journalism and lack of research in the Guardian these days is appalling - sad

A very fair point Grunkalunka, the couples going there are already in relationships, white ones.

I think the reason for the article ranging over many seemingly unrelated issues is that it’s an extract from her book so it’s part of a bigger issue. She won’t have written the headline either.

I’m not saying she doesn’t make some interesting points. I did an unconscious bias workshop and they said that the only people who don’t show brain activity indicating racist responses to photos of other races are in mixed race relationships. Those people were presumably wired that way before they got together with their partners. I don’t know. And it was only done with one particular race. Eg black man dating white woman didn’t display the reactions to photos of white women of the black men who weren’t dating white women. But he might have when showed pictures of Asian women. I hope that makes sense!

sandy, you seem to know about this stuff. Is there a fetish for black couples and a white man or woman or does it tend to go one way?

I was out with some friends a few years ago when a black woman started dancing with a white male friend and whispered in his ear that if he “went black” he wouldn’t go back. It was the first time he’d heard it and he was out with a group and not looking for anything more than drinks and dancing. He didn’t know if she was propositioning him but it was a bit of a nonsequitor.

Internalised racism like internalised sexism? An innocent chat up line? He’d dated white, black and Chinese women at that point so commenting on her skin colour rather than introducing herself or asking to buy him a drink was awkward.

I do have sympathy for black women who see so many successful black men choose a white partner. As though a white partner is another indication of having made it.

I disagree with this and black women don't need your sympathy. As a black woman...I find that rather patronising.

One race hasn't got exclusive rights to date only within themselves.

I absolutely don't see it as a sign thst a successful black man with a white woman indicates 'he's made it' and if that is the view of the black man..then he's not the kind of black man that a black woman would want anyway.

Is a white woman going to be upset, because a successful white man has married a black woman?

This is really archaic thinking in my opinion.

sandy, you seem to know about this stuff. Is there a fetish for black couples and a white man or woman or does it tend to go one way?

I've not seen a black couple getting a white bull.

I have seen Asian couples getting a white bull though.

In a lot of these cuckold cases... the husband has been cut off from sex with his wife..in favour of her black lover/s.

Even to the point of the black lover getting her pregnant...with the consent of her DH.

They raise the child as theirs. The bull isn't known as dad to the child. These cuckold husbands see black men as sexually superior and they submit yo them.

I'd be very very surprised to see any black man be a cuckold to a white man, especially of he had a black wife/GF.

I think that there are a lot more white people to every black person in this country therefore you're more likely to meet and fall in love with a non black person if you're black. Of my black friends born and bred in this country all are in mixed race marriages ,both black male and black females.

But in my kids school there maybe around 4 black families so it's highly likely that if they stay in this country and there is no cultural or religious pressure to marry 'their own' that these kids will end up with white spouses.

Maybe it's more of an American issue? The successful black men having LTRs with white women

You're obviously not bothered or affected by it sandy2k. I don't pity black women who may be more affected by this matching problem. I see it as men once again getting more choices in the dating game. Men's agendas prevail... whatever their motivations. Anyway as I know myself firsthand, there are worse problems than the men you would date not dating you. One gets on with one's life.

I didn’t read the article. I also live in a very undiverse area so no personal experience but I did notice recently that ads on tv that portray mixed-race couples seem to show a black man with a white woman. The John Lewis Christmas ad, as well as the Christmas ad with the woman losing her shoe on the train- might have been for Debenhams?

I was born in the UK. I've never had a problem finding a good black man.

Neither have my sisters or black friends. I will agree that more of the black guys I know ..have had relationships with white women...than the other way round. Most are married to black men .. a handful have married white men.

I think that's based on attraction though. As in the black women tend to want a black guy...and black guys are more open to dating other races, so they have a wider pool.

It very much depends on your social circles though. I mixed mainly with my own race socially...because that's just how it was.

I'm quite strong (or I was more so then) on marrying someone with the same ethnicity as me.

With age and knowledge...by far the most important thing is a good man/woman, who loves and cares fir you regardless of race.

Very interesting though. That article was so jumbled up.

You do sound very strong, very certain of yourself and there is no "drout mentality" coming from you at all! I think that is key in attracting somebody worth having.
I settled once last due to drout mentality and it was the most pointless collision of two people EVER.

Mind you married women are only hearing second hand what dating is like now. I suppose in the age of tinder it is easier than ever to date a specific race. In previous decades people were more restricted by their social circles.

I suppose in the age of tinder it is easier than ever to date a specific race. In previous decades people were more restricted by their social circles.

I agree.

I've met people across the world I would never have done in this new internet age
These days there are so many specific dating websites. Whether for interracial dating...tall people dating tall people.... dating larger people...sugarbabies looking for sugar daddies.

Who would have thought .... a dating site where you openly say you want a rich man to lavish money on you.

Sandy I think you'd be surprised how many white women would not be happy/would find it unusual with a white man with a black woman. Have seen the looks such couples are given when out and about myself, considering that some of the black women in my family are with white men.
I also think this idea of black men having 'made it' by getting with a white women, is the legacy and current reality of colourism, and the idea that some black men are only attracted to lighter women and see these women are having more value and therefore, as saying something more about them as men.

I think it depends a lot where you live. One of my closest local female friends is black and is married to a white man. But where she grew up with and who she socialised with were mostly white. She met her husband at university. Noone thinks it's strange.

I've only ever dated white men but that's because I'm usually around mostly white men. I lived in Asia but went with my boyfriend at the time so wasn't open. Asian men were attractive and had I been single I would probably have ended up with an Asian man. My siblings are all in mixed race marriages.

Of my Indian friends, the religious ones who are still very culturally entrenched are married to their own kind. But the ones who aren't, are mostly married to other races and especially the females actively choose not to end up with their own culture because they want to avoid all that comes with it.

Sandy I think you'd be surprised how many white women would not be happy/would find it unusual with a white man with a black woman.

I guess I'd be the last person they express it to. I have white friends and they aren't like that.

Culture also plays a part. Not having to explain culture to a BF saves lots hassle. Especially tradition around marriage rituals.

I live in London and there is a lot of diversity....I don't think people bat an eyelid with interracial couples.

Having said that a friends cousin is expecting a baby...her BF is black and the family aren't happy about it.

I don't delude myself that some people don't like interracial couples at all. They just don't accept it or see it as 'normal'

There's an interracial couple u follow on YouTube and it just boils down to true love.

I'm a black woman. My husband is a white man. He is also very successful and highly educated (PhD, blah, blah, blah) and handsome of course . I don't think any white woman have expressed unhappiness at our relationship to my face (they wouldn't) but people have definitely expressed surprise that we are together - both black and white people - and I have seen many disapproving looks from who're people in the street. Especially since we had our child.

Of my (several) black female friends with white husbands they all have pretty much the same setup as me: Black Londoner woman, met white non-Londoner husband at Russell group uni, husband very highly educated, neither side of their families bothered by the interracial aspect of their children's marriage.

I agree entirely with what @SandyY2K said about not seeing black men who marry white women as doing it because they feel they are too successful for a black woman. If anything I would say that when I look around, the black men I've seen with white women tend to be at the lower end of the social economic scale. I don't know any black women who look at those men with envy. Just a personal observation of course so in no way an indication of any statistical fact.