Question to the OW

[Wintersnow17]

My DH had an affair and is now with the OW.

I feel betrayed, devastated, sad beyond belief.

So I have questions in all honesty to anyone out there who is the OW.

How do you justify it to yourself?
What is it that makes you do it?
How can you live with yourself knowing what it does to the other person?
I really want to know to try to stop tying myself up in knots.

And I know it's not just the OW but you see your DH but not the OW.

Wishing I’m sorry to hear that x

I have always said, if one of us becomes unhappy, we will talk about it, but I wouldn't force the relationship if the love wasn't there. It would be over before the potential for an affair could start and i think we'd both be grateful for the relationship we've had.

I found myself rolling my eyes at this.

Me too. Because if people were always honest and open in relationships there would be no affairs.

You only need to read the relationships boards to see how many people believed the love was there, only to be blindsided by an affair that the husband swears isnt happening.
There are endless threads on there with disbelieving and shocked women saying 'I never thought DH would ever cheat'
That's what an affair is: one person lying another about how they really feel and what they're really doing.

And that's why the eye roll.
If you don't know anything's wrong because your loved one is lying to you, there's no way to stop the affair before it starts.
You have no idea it's happening until after the fact. You think the person you love and you married, and have sex with, cuddle with and talk about the future, the person who says they love you when you kiss them goodbye in the morning, is lying to your face.
That's why it's a shock. That's why it's devastating.

Arkangel

According to your post you weren’t ever the OW.

You didn’t have an affair.
He left his wife and you started a relationship.

WinchestersInATardis

Exacrly.
You said what I couldn’t be bothered to articulate.
I found the post childishly naive. Hence the eye roll

According to your post you weren’t ever the OW.

You didn’t have an affair.
He left his wife and you started a relationship.

We kissed before he left her. A few times. The chemistry was ridiculously strong and several times we got to the point where we had to stop or it would have gone further. We went on a couple of "mates dates" too.
Not an excuse and I was horrified with myself, but I had never felt that way about someone.

He had left her before we slept together.

So yes, he cheated on her and I cheated on my partner at the time (although we weren't really together at that point).
She made it her life's work to destroy him afterward, but it was a really wonderful relationship. I don't regret it.

And, (I'm aware you're all going to bloody hate me for saying this) I valued myself as more than an OW. I wasn't developing feelings for him to get my kicks over a married woman, whatever our relationship statuses, I didn't want to be wasting MY time and feelings on that. I had no idea he would leave her, I didn't ask him to.

Anecdotally though, my father had an affair and remarried the OW and they are blissfully happier than he and my mother ever were.

@WinchesterInATardis and @Wishingandwaiting You both may roll your eyes at what I have written, but I firmly stand by it so please eye-roll away. I am not at all claiming that everyone in a relationship should share my outlook, but I am certain that my DH and I would split before an affair became desirable for either of us. Bare in mind that we got together as a result of an affair (not a straightforward conventional affair admittedly, but you have read my previous post and know the context), so we have a different perspective of our own relationship. At times, in the early days of our relationship, it was like him and me against the world. Nearly a decade later and we haven't forgotten that. We both know what our previous relationships lacked and we've made a massive effort to focus on, and respect, one another whilst making the stresses of the first year 'worth' something. I was not satisfied in my previous relationship, so left him, and would certainly do the same with DH if I became equally as unsatisfied. I am not the type to stay with someone and drag things out if unhappy. Luckily, I am incredibly happy. We have a great marriage and make a strong couple so it's a hypothetical statement anyway.

It is naive. Surely you know that there are thousands of women, dozens just on here, who were married to men who said all of those things to them, before going on to have an affair.

My xh said he'd never felt true love until he met me, that we were soulmates, that he'd tell me if he ever felt unhappy. We agreed to split before either of us was ever in the market for an affair, that we were different to other couples. We were happy like that for decades, before he found someone even better than me. Now he says all of those things to her I expect, but there's nothing stopping him from meeting someone even better than her is there?

I hope those of you who started as affairs go the distance. I think it makes all the pain less pointless if you are happy ever after. The statistics are markedly against you, but I wouldn't begrudge you that.

I am not at all claiming that everyone in a relationship should share my outlook, but I am certain that my DH and I would split before an affair became desirable for either of us

You're completely missing the point. I do share your outlook. I strongly believe in not staying in an unhappy marriage or forcing it after love has gone and talking about issues before they become problems. We all do. And I can't think of a single couple who would disagree.
The point is that the cheated on partner is given no choice to do that.
I'm glad you're secure in your relationship but to state that you 'wouldn't let it get to the point of an affair' is pretty patronising to people who've been cheated on, and also believed that about themselves and their DP until that choice was taken away from them.

@MrsPworkingmummy

I am not at all claiming that everyone in a relationship should share my outlook, but I am certain that my DH and I would split before an affair became desirable for either of us

DH and I agreed this too. Promised each other we'd be really honest. Guess what? He had an affair and left me after 20 years! Poof! just like that! No explanation nothing!

When you're in the throws of love this is easy to agree on but when you've been together a while it gets a bit 'meh'🤔

@MrsPworkingmummy

Sorry if you're feeling a bit attacked about this. Honestly we really did have the best intentions you guys do.

I don't believe being the OW puts you into an 'OW category'

1. What does that even mean?

1. Why do OW who then marry the man think that their marriage is so special that none of the problems faced by others in long term relationships could possibly happen to them? It seems like a lot of denial about the nature of trying to build a life with someone over decades.

Not feeling attacked at all. I understand everyone has different viewpoints. What I would say is that DH and I are not in the throws of early, passionate love - we've been together nearly a decade, have a gorgeous child and 1 on the way, and are very happy. We have both seen and lived through the impact of a bitter, drawn out divorce (his): the thousands it cost, the emotional impact it had, the years of time it took to sort out finances etc, and the psychotic nature of bitter exes - because we have this hindsight, I think we would be in a better place to split amicably before getting to a stage where we hate each other and want to put each other through that. It's just not my style. Not every couple has had this experience and because of that, I think we're better placed than most to be able to stand by my claim.

* It's just not my style*

And another eye roll.

Keep em’ coming!

I think we would be in a better place to split amicably before getting to a stage where we hate each other and want to put each other through that

I kinda wish I could watch with popcorn. Of course you don't want to put him through that now, he hasn't lied to you and f*cked around on you yet. People don't divorce when things are going well and they still like each other. By the time you are divorcing him, you'll want to make sure that you and your children are protected and his next true love doesn't get the money.

I can understand what people mean about a post affair relationship having a clarity that a lot of people choose not to go into a conventional relationship with.

Once you've had an affair and end up with that person, you both understand yourselves to be fallible, it's already on the table as a discussion point. Conventional relationships these days is all about presenting the very best of yourself to begin with until you become comfortable and complacent. Who then wants to be criticised for something you haven't even done? We'd become defensive if our partner made sounds about being in a rut or unhappy, the person has always tried to present themselves as their best version so it's easy to feel like those conversations are about transferring blame onto ourselves.

The rhetoric of working on the relationship before leaving implies that both parties want to be better for each other, and I don't know if that's really true in lots of couples I've witnessed. It can become a race to the bottom in tit for tat arguments, (Man wants more intimacy, woman voicing she might too if he did more around the house etc) that means people tip toe around in frustration and ultimately unhappiness.

Communication is the key to great relationships, and no one teaches us about that.

I was the OW 16 years ago when I was 31. I had just come out of an awful marriage and went a bit wild dating unsuitable men. I met him online in a chat room and we spoke for months before meeting up - nothing sexual at all but would talk about sport and politics and literature and art - he was funny and clever and I knew he was married from the start.

I used to talk to a lot of people in chat rooms back then - there was quite a community so it didn't seem odd - people would meet up from time to time and sometimes a few of us would meet up for drinks. After about 6 months we met at one of these get togethers and it was apparent that we really hit it off. We then started to email privately and meet for coffee, although it took another 3 or 4 months to get to a physical stage.

By that time we had discussed his marriage in some detail - of course it was the same old story, he hadn't been in love with her for years, married early, felt trapped by the kids etc etc. The only difference was that I was aware that they still had a very active sex life.

I was a very selfish and self absorbed person back then - I'd like to think that I've changed a lot I the years since, but at that time having had such a shit marriage I justified it that we were in love, I deserved it, he would leave his wife, it was meant to be etc etc etc. Looking back I can see just how depressed I was and how little self esteem I had, but that absolutely didn't register at the time.

I didn't think an enormous amount about his wife, beyond the fact that she was 'standing in the way of my happiness.' I managed to compartmentalise her feelings as not important, as we were having the grand affair of the century.

We carried on a physical affair for a year until she found out, at which point it unravelled as all these things do. She threatened to throw him out, deny him access to the children and so forth and he went back to her. We saw each other for a further year until I jacked it in because it was doing my head in and he clearly wasn't going to leave. His wife's family are very rich and I became increasingly aware that there was no way he was going to risk being cut off from the gravy train.

We have never lost contact, and email occasionally to exchange news. I am aware that in that time he has gone on to have two more affairs, which his wife has not discovered. His children have grown up and are now at university. He has a nice life pottering about, being supported by her money and making plans for them to retire early. I still enjoy his friendship, even though I long ago lost any romantic feelings for him.

I can now see the affair for what it was, and am mortified that I behaved in such a selfish, self absorbed and hurtful way. I've never behaved in that way again, and nor would I want to. I feel huge sorrow that I hurt his wife, and sorrow that he has gone on to cheat on her again and again. To some degree I hope she is completely oblivious to his behaviour and happy with their life.

I hope that gives you a bit of insight, OP. I wish that I had not been that selfish, careless young woman back then, and that he hadn't been such a foolish, vain man. I have a DP of ten years now and the thought of cheating on him makes me feel sick.

Really agree with that Kung fu well said 👌🏻

Ditto kungfu there's a lot of wisdom in what you say. Both parties have made mistakes obvious to each other and learn from them.

It is utterly fascinating how completely different the perspectives on here are depending on whether you've been cheated on or whether you were the person having an affair.
And really awful to see how much the affair partners refuse to understand why the cheated-on feel so strongly. You've reminded me why I would never get involved with someone I knew had cheated in the past. The lack of empathy is incredible.

Hi Wintersnow. I haven't RTFT but thought I would tell you my story.

I was an OW over a decade ago.

When I met her him he told me he was single and I believed him. He lived about two hours away and worked interstate, so it was easy for him to get away with the lie in the short term, but he did tell me the truth after a month, and I was gutted.

He told me he was in a loveless marriage and that he was only staying for the children, that his DW was a cold woman who had lost interest in him years ago and had turned their kids against him. He said they hadn't had sex for years (of course).

As we became more involved he told me he'd seen a divorce lawyer, who, conveniently, had advised him to stay in his marital home.

I could see that it was going nowhere so I took a job in another state and moved far away, although we were still in contact after I left.

I never saw him again but I did hear from his DW, who'd got into his mobile phone and found my number.

She yelled at me and called me names, understandably, then hung up. But she rang back and yelled some more. I wanted to talk to her though. I wanted to know the truth.

I learned that he'd been lying to both of us and that there was another OW involved. When she asked me what he'd said about his marriage and I told her, she was utterly devastated.

There were more conversations between us and it turned out that he had been a serial cheat throughout their marriage and she even suspected he'd slept with her own sister. She suspected he had an OW in every town he worked in and confided in me about the other OW she did know about.

She loved him and had been with him since they were youngsters. They had kids. I ended up liking her and feeling very sorry indeed that I'd caused so much devastation.

Before she contacted me, I hadn't thought about her. The ex-MM had painted a picture of her as cold and difficult that made it easy for me to ignore her existence. She wasn't someone I thought about, not because I didn't like her but because she wasn't real to me.

I justified it because I thought I was in love.

What made me do it? At first because I thought he was single. What made me continue after I knew otherwise, I guess, was infatuation, selfishness and naivety.

As for your question, how can you live with yourself knowing what it does to the other person?....

I couldn't now, knowing what I know, but I could then, before speaking to the DW, because I didn't have the full picture about the reality of their marriage or her as a person.

He'd told me a pack of lies - they did have sex still, he did love her - and still does - they are still together. Looking back, I was just a bit on the side but couldn't see it.

Whenever I hear now of a friend or a friend of a friend (I know of two active affairs), the OW always says: "Oh, but he says X and Y....." My answer is: "That's what he says. Have you heard his wife's side of the story?" and of course, they have not.

I've never dated an attached man since. I think that's because the DW rang me and told me the truth.

I'm not advising that you do the same, WinterSnow, because the OW in your scenario may not want to co-operate. But if he's cheated on you with her, he'll do the same to her.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

My most recent (6 yrs ago) role in this tawdry long-playing drama is as a BW. H had a 6m affair with a colleague. It ended, we stayed together after a long and painful reconciliation and things are good now.

Years earlier I had an brief but quite intense EA with a man with a GF. Did I care about her? Nope, she was a non-entity. I found the fact of her existence a bit annoying at most. But the A ended suddenly when he started to want a lot more very quickly. I told him no and got a new job asap. I guess I wasn't as keen on him as I thought. I didn't think that I had done her any harm as nothing happened - I know better now.

It's takes time and experience to develop empathy.

I'd like to add though that I have really learnt a life lesson and am convinced that I wouldn't ever behave in the same way again

I wonder if you can say the same for your man

And really awful to see how much the affair partners refuse to understand why the cheated-on feel so strongly. You've reminded me why I would never get involved with someone I knew had cheated in the past. The lack of empathy is incredible.

You're assuming the OWs haven't been cheated on.

I always acknowledged how much his wife must have been hurting.

I was a OW at 17. I was probably, and have heard, one of a few!

It was pretty disgusting to be honest, I had left home, council-housed in a horrible bedsit and was on an apprenticeship and earning less than jobseekers for a full time job. I was only there because my ex had treated me so badly and beat me up.

AP was my boss. He was married to a beautiful woman and had children. So when he took an interest in me (always after drinks!) I felt flattered. It's hilarious really, I was a little shit, I wasn't attractive!
I was also immature.

He trusted me to look after work matters and he paid expenses for me he wouldn't pay for anyone else. I felt like I had responsibility and a good job, someone liked me. And all that didnt make me think about the OW. In fact I began to dislike her. For no reason. I couldn't for a second think about how she would feel as I had never loved. Never given birth.

Word got out and to protect himself he told her we only kissed. I wish that was it to be honest. It ended in a confrontation from her and I left immediately, out of shame. I adored the job too.

In reality, and slightly differing from most situations, he completely took advantage of me and how vulnerable I was, I didn't think I was vulnerable, I felt independent. It was an ego boost.

In the end she cheated on him, he cheated some more, and she ended up leaving him, taking their children miles away.

Ironically, my DH cheated on me. I ripped the OW to shreds and all she could reply with was "I was abused". She was an older woman, a mess, she didn't give a shit. I knew exactly what was going through her head, why she had such a dislike for me, how she felt. Her ego had been fed so much she gave absolutely no shits about me or my children.

They say they always affair down, and I believe that's the case a lot of the time. It takes a vulnerable person seeking attention to take something that isn't theirs, because it'll do. It's a bit of excitement in their lives.

And the OW will think shes so special to be chosen to be worthy of his time, she wont care about the victims.

I'll also add that my experience of being the OW has haunted me for almost 20 years, it was a serious life lesson I've always considered in life. I refused to lie to people anymore. It was cruel and hurt so many people. Life without lies is simple.