"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I didn't realise there was a new thread!! will catch up later, for now just popping in to say hello x

I'm sorry to hear you're struggling, duskmum. I don't know if you've already heard of him but have you seen any of Richard Grannon's YouTube videos? I found him really good on relationship - he has a video on red flags of abusive relationships that is a good start.

IME yes, abusive people can sniff us out. But you can sniff them out too. It's a numbers game ultimately I think, you need to meet lots of people, not get too attached to any one person too quickly, and when somebody shows you a red flag you give up on them immediately. We always think we can make people be nice to us but we can't, we don't have that much influence on other people and we never did.

Lizzie I don't think anyone can predict how your brother would react, although I would guess that denial is a pretty likely outcome, followed in short order by him going outraged to your mother to report what you said, then boom, it's all gone to shit again. And however it shakes out, whichever of you says it out loud will somehow be the bad guy, even though you've done nothing wrong.
Can you not just block his calls? I know you feel responsible for him but it's not doing either of you any good.

Hi,

I've recently gone nc with my M for the second time in two years. I've given her chance after chance and I have none left to
give. I've done a lot of reading and I'm fairly certain she has NPD. I know nc is the best thing for me and for my 3 year old DS, as things have been so peaceful and drama-free without her around. Unfortunately I still feel guilty at times. Even though I know she's the one who should feel guilty. I also feel hurt that she hasn't tried to contact me or stop me from turning my back on her, even though I know that's exactly what I need to do. I realise that sounds ridiculous. I just don't think I'll ever get my head round the fact that my mother clearly doesn't give a shit about me. Especially now I'm a mum myself and I know what it feels like to love your child. Why doesn't she feel that way about me? And, I know it's a bit dramatic, and a bit selfish, but what if I get a phone call one day to say that she has passed away? Will I regret going nc? How will
I live with that? Can anyone relate?

I read this article a few weeks ago that you might relate to. Also
possibly this, although it is coming from a bit different perspective.

I think it will take you time to grieve for the loving relationship with your mother that you never got to have. The answer to why she never loved you the way you do your DC is probably to be found in her own childhood; be proud that you're breaking the cycle of abuse. It gets easier. Everything you're feeling is normal.

Aren't small children wonderful "nanny has retired and now looks after [youngest niece] everyday except one" (and picks speaking niece up from school on pretty much a daily basis).

I am sure it will be thrown back to me that "we don't bother to be in touch".

.

It truly is better for us. No worries from the children, no fears that I'm not good enough and no bad mouthing Dh.

Thank you, toomuch. I actually am thinking about blocking, but I've no idea how to go about it with a landline, because that's the only number he calls. Short of changing our telephone number and not giving him our new number? I keep thinking it's all a bit melodramatic, but it might be the only way.

Hi Lizzie, it looks like <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/google-android/how-block-number-on-android-3621588/%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwjYz7OXgd3YAhVGEiwKHcZCD2QQFjAAegQIDxAB&usg=AOvVaw2dYtfPGWm_V1uPz22gPmXw&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">BT can do it, I guess the other providers will have a similar service?

lizzie depends what sort of phone you have, but some of them have their own functions built in to block.

Thanks toomuch. I read both of those articles and they are really helpful. Things came to a head with M in January 2016 when she started trying to cause problems in my marriage. She destroyed both of her own marriages and she then started on mine. I basically told her exactly what I thought of her and how she made me feel and all the awful things she's done since I was a child. She became enraged, denied it all and contacted my aunt, uncle and cousins and pretended she was going to commit suicide. She's done that many times over the years. She basically told them I was a monster and she was the one who was treated badly by me all these years. They believed her. They summoned me and my husband to their house for a meeting to try to sort it out and we went. It didn't go well. I got so angry at her for denying everything. For denying the abuse she put me through and the burden she placed on me to take care of her from the age of 4. It was 32 years of suffering coming out in one night and my family couldn't cope with it. She sat there crying while I told them some of the things she'd done to me and they just looked at me like I was a liar. They never spoke to me again after that and have never acknowledged my son since who is only 3. I have lost an entire family in one go and I don't know how to deal with it. I even gave her yet another chance after that but she started bad-mouthing my husband and crying in front of my son so I cut contact. It was just history repeating itself. All she ever did was cry in front of me and I spent my childhood terrified and worrying about her, even though all of her problems were self-inflicted. She won't do it to my son aswell. I want to talk about this all the time but I can't because it's heavy stuff and it gets people down, so I keep it inside. I don't want to burden people with my problems like she does. I could talk about what she's done to me forever. My cousin who is 2 years younger and has massive problems of her own used this as an excuse to turn against me and tell me she hates me and hopes she never sees me again. She sent me a text full of vile abuse telling me she wouldn't be my bridesmaid. She was jealous (she's never had a boyfriend and is bitter about it) and this was her way to get out of my wedding. She then contacted me a week before the wedding by text to say she had said what she had to say and was "kind of over it now". I didn't respond. None of them were at my wedding. I thought it would be awful but it was the happiest most peaceful day of my life. I just can't get my head around the fact that my family could turn on me like that so quickly. They must have always hated me. My head inside is a disaster. My mother's lack of love for me makes me feel completely worthless.

You're not worthless, but no wonder you feel like that with the total lack of care you experienced as a kid. Your family have decided that if you're going to tell the truth, the easiest way for them to continue in their dysfunction is to ostracise you as the scapegoat. Wear it as a badge of honour. These people don't deserve your friendship.
I'm not surprised at all that your wedding was a happy occasion without your family there, and it might just be a matter of waiting for your feelings to catch up with the intellectual realisation that you're better off without them.

Still though, it sounds as if you would really benefit from counselling. Is there any chance you could do that? I think it would really benefit you being able to speak to an impartial outsider, both in terms of getting this stuff off your chest and also in having someone qualified hear your story and validate for you that it was abusive and to help you understand why the things that happened, happened. Talking therapy is not so easy to get on the NHS but NAPAC or MIND may be able to help with subsidised therapy, if cost is an issue.

Thank you, Hashid and toomuch. I've had a look at the handset to see if there is a function that would allow a number to be blocked, but there isn't one. We're with Plusnet so I'll have a look to see if they can do it. It's clearly a lot more complicated with landlines than with mobiles.

I'm finding the thought of blocking my brother really sad though. He did hurt us when we were growing up, but he's a victim like we are, and it seems very harsh to make him pay for other people's sins. And my DM has frequently told me just how vulnerable he is, and how unwell. Yes I know that it's called FOG, but it's been a part of me for so long.

Lizzie
One of my aunts has had to do the same. She tried very hard to not punish everyone else but ultimately it took too much toll on her. I don't think it was an easy choice for her to make.
Plusnet definitely do offer it, but I think it's a monthly chargeable service.

Thank you, Hashi, I'll look into it. I confess I'm also afraid of being judged.

Lizzie i cant say you wont be judged, you probably will be. But not fairly.
I only found out about my aunt when she extended a hand to my mother during a period of illness. My mother, who has also cut off the family, still judged her for it. I hope my aunt judged her right back

Oh dear. The sister (aka flying monkey) has messaged me today. Although her issue is with my apparent ignoring of her and her family. I have pointed out she started this course of action by not telling me her new address, or that she was engaged. Pretty big life events really.

This particular message came about because she saw Dh at club pick up (her middle youngest is now at the same group as my eldest). Apparently Dh didn't speak to them. Dh said (before I got the message) that they didn't speak to him and even looked at him like a piece of dirt on their show.

I love how she decides she and her family are 'innocent in all this'.

I have had a message back to mine. Which I am currently ignoring reading.

I'm emotionally drained. I've just started ready the book "women who love too much". I relate to everything! So it's just dawned on me that I'm codependant. Which stems from my child hood. I've had alot of bad experiences during child hood but nothing too traumatic and people must have had worse than me so I can't think why I've ended up this way. Unless I can't really remember how my parents used to treat me when I was very little!

Of course you can.

I'm wondering now if I should've asked to join before I posted my massive rant about my mother on here the other nigh! Do you need someone to talk to? Fire away. x

Toomuch I have taken your advice and I'm on the waiting list to see a counsellor. I think it's long overdue. I hope it helps. I know I need to talk so it can't hurt. Thank you.

Don't ask to join! Rant away. I infrequently post drivel but it helps get it off my chest.

I am useless at advising others what to do though, because that means actually taking my own advice.

It's all very informal in here - you don't need to ask permission to post, but if you want to, you can I think that's how it works anyway - I showed up here three years ago and just kind of stuck around

I'm so sorry to hear that this happened to you. I understand why you feel more hurt by your mum. It's awful that she doesn't believe you. I think deep down she probably knows it happened but can't face it and is incapable of giving you the support you need and none of that is your fault. She has failed you as a mother. I haven't been through anything as bad as you have but I know what it feels like to have your mother deny that bad things happened happened to you, in my case those bad things were done by her. It is lonely, and very difficult to understand. Your mother is the one person you should always be able to go to when things go wrong or bad things happen. I hope you have other family or friends around you who are there for you.