"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi Atilla not at all, I always appreciate your advice, and your clear headed view of the situation.
They're leaving tomorrow - yesterday they were out for the whole day and ate while they were out, so they ended up sitting outside in the evening while we ate dinner - which is great for me, but it seems really odd to me, like if they want that little contact with us, why don't they just go now? I daresay tonight everyone will pull together their last remaining social energy and we'll all have dinner together and then FIL will say something provocative and it'll be interesting to see if DH takes the bait or not. I'm going to try generally to drop the rope - I have been, and I notice this visit that DH has been commenting more than usual what a windbag FIL is. What often happens usually is that FIL gloms onto me and talks shite at me and MIL and DH get a break, but this time I have just been staring into space with a glazed expression and I don't ask any questions so he moves on DH. Which helps. I'm going to get DH to read Toxic Parents as well. What I really need is for DH not to arrange any more visits where they stay for an extended time, specially when DH doesn't take any time off work to host them. I'm going to refuse to do it next year. This is just shitey emotional labour that nobody else in the family wants to do. SIL tends to go away when they visit and that's one solution but then the kids are stuck with them and as you can probably imagine, DH and BIL won't stand up to him so there's no way I'm doing that. I mean, I've got a relatively thick skin, he can chat shite about women drivers or whatever and I'll just roll my eyes and him and walk off. But the kids are not going to be subjected to any more of his pish. No way.

Lizzie I wish my MIL would come on her own, but no, they're the joint package. She visited one time when the kids were young, stayed for a few weeks, and she was a great help and I was and am very grateful. But FIL starts to get antsy after a few days on his own.

Hi Hopeintheair, welcome... I agree with Atilla, be very careful about how much contact your DS has with your mother. It's a revelation isn't it, when you start to see these patterns in your life.

oldschool yes that sounds awful - the financial control of your mother, the bullying of you and the nasty stuff with the presents. I know what you mean about waiting for you to do something he could berate you for - my mother was like that. I'd get up some mornings (always when my dad wasn't around, weekends when he was working were the worst) and she'd be in a bad mood and it felt like just this horrible miasma of doom, and I knew without being able to put it into words that I was going to do something wrong and she was going to go off her nut. She tried it once with me in adulthood and it was like I left so fast I was like "oh, I appear to be packing my suitcase. Right legs, where are we going?" She did it when DH had just gone out for the paper I remember - for all their uncontrollable rage, they somehow manage to always wait until they have no audience.

bigbluebubble good on you for coming out and saying it to your mother. You know you're in the presence of a narcissist when your pain at a bad thing happening to you is always and forever trumped by the pain they feel at once being held accountable. It's like, she feels bad that you blame her? Good. That's appropriate guilt. Maybe once if she is responsible for another person's safety she will take it fucking seriously, if only to avoid feeling guilt again. Honestly these people right, if they would just once learn to take it on the chin. You fucked up. The world didn't end. Do better next time. I've got school aged kids and they are right bang in the middle of learning about reponsibility for your own actions. It is a sobering thing when a 6 year old has more emotional maturity than their bloody grandparents.

Gaaargh. I am rageous today.

Hi everyone, I am looking for some advice on how to handle my situation. Basically, I have an elderly mother whose behaviour has always been odd, but become much odder lately. We have never been close - she is full of anger towards me which comes out as passive aggression, spiteful remarks and general goading. I keep trying to make allowances and hoping things will change before it is too late, but just when I'm feeling more positive, she will drop another bomb. My sister is the golden child and I am the scapegoat. Everything she says to me is critical, picking fault, judgemental or totally lacking in empathy. With that, she has an endlessly 'sunny' demeanour, i.e. she talks about the birds and the flowers and what a lovely day it is. Underneath she is a cauldron of anger and nastiness. She calls me 'negative' because I find it impossible to share positive feelings with her or really any news. I have clamped down on what i tell her and how far I let her in as she just hurts me. Again and again.
Anyway, until now we have lived several hundred miles apart so I have seen little of her. I am now moving closer to her for a number of reasons, part of the reason is to be around when she gets really frail etc, God knows why, but i feel responsible.
My daughter also moved closer to her and stayed with her for several weeks whilst she got on her feet. At first things were fine, but as time went on and she found she couldn't control my daughter she became downright nasty. By the time my daughter left they were barely speaking and have had nothing to do with each other since. My daughter says she is evil, and i am not sure that is an overstatement.
I now feel I do not want to see my mother or speak to her, yet I know I must. I don't want confrontation and bad feeling in the family, I have enough on my plate and just can't cope with it at the moment. At the same time I cannot forgive my mother or pretend that the appalling way she has behaved is OK.
I am getting falsely bright messages from my mother full of sickly sentimentality and fake niceness. I can hardly bring myself to respond.
What should I do and how do I cope with this?

Hi lightonthewater!

I can hardly bring myself to respond

I've been there. I found it to be a mixture of bone tiredness and also disgust, like I would be ill if I had to have one more interaction. I think it's our own sense of self preservation. We keep trying to do what we perceive as the right thing but there's a little voice inside you saying "nope" and you should listen to that voice because it has your best interests at heart.

I now feel I do not want to see my mother or speak to her, yet I know I must

I know it's a bit trite to say this, but you don't actually have to speak to her. There may be consequences to not speaking to her, but I think the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) makes it feel as though those reasons are more compelling than they actually are. What would happen if you just didn't contact her? Would your sister get on your case? Is that because she cares so much about family, or also because when you drop the rope she starts taking more of the grief from your mother? Are there other family members who will start giving you grief? Do you or your DD live with any of them or rely on them - is it necessary for you to accept all of their communication with you, or could you start screening some of that out, being less available? Captain Awkward, my favourite advice columnist, has an article on this one dealing with flying monkeys like this.

If you want to stay in contact, but reduced contact, it is hard I think because you have to enforce boundaries but you'll have been trained by your mother from early on to ignore your own wants and needs and only react to hers. But there are things you can do to make it easier. Captain Awkward again has lots of good advice on gradually reducing contact. What you're doing already, keeping the conversation light and avoiding emotional topics, it has a name - grey rock, and naturally your mother hates it because it stops her getting any information that she can use to wind you up and that is why you should keep doing it. If she calls you negative, don't apologise, just give non-committal answers - a shrug, oh really, do I, oh well. Don't apologise or explain, because you don't want to give her an "in", and there's nothing wrong with small talk. If she wants to press further, make her do the running. Make it be up to her how far she decides to puncture the veneer of sweetness and light.

My other bit of advice is to be prepared for your mother or sister to try to guilt trip you into doing stuff for your mother. If you are expecting it, it's much easier to say no, rather than being surprised and railroaded into doing something you don't want to. And keep your "no" simple. Don't give reasons, they can argue with reasons. A classic Mumsnet "sorry, that doesn't work for me" is a good one. Try to keep in mind that your mother's problems are not yours to solve. If you're not available, it's not up to you to find another solution.

In other news, my inlaws have gone. Yay! FIL actually behaved himself last night, and I don't really know where that leaves us. I don't want to be responsible for DH breaking contact with his parents. But I also don't want to have do the lion's share of the emotional and physical labour of hosting them, and I don't want to leave the kids in FIL's presence without me being there. I know he's not my mum, he's not (quite) as bad, and he's not their dad, it's less of an influence, but I see no fucking reason whatsoever that they should have to negotiate the influence of someone who walks over other people's boundaries the way he does. And that is how I feel.
I do wonder if he might be better next time, as I did call him out over the thing with poking them. I don't really know how it works with him. He didn't do anything provoking after that, so maybe he has a bit more control over himself than my mother, for whom boundaries were either a mortal wound or a pretext for a massive strop. So I don't know. I think I might let DH chew over his own feelings about all this stuff and then see where that leaves us - but I'm not going to be hosting them for a bloody week, and not alone.

Hi lightonthewater

What toomuchtooold wrote in its entirity. Your mother sounds like a narcissist in terms of personality; what with her lack of empathy and the golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on. It is really not possible to have a relationship with someone as disordered of thinking as this so I would not even try to do so. Your boundaries here unsurprisingly are poor also because your mother has trained you from an early age to serve her at your overall expense. Your daughter has also suffered at your mother's hands as well. Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she is crap as a grandparent figure as well. Toxic people like this never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. She has made you feel responsible for her and taught you how to be codependent but you are not responsible for her and you can break any codependency cycle.

Do not JADE with someone like your mother i.e. justify, argue, defend or explain. State your point of view once and once only.

toomuchtooold

Glad to read that your ILs have gone home thank goodness.

What does DH want to do re them going forward?. He certainly cannot and should not expect you to host them whilst he is elsewhere. Its up to him whether he wants to continue to have a relationship with them but that does not automatically mean that you or your children have to do so. Not all abusive people are horrid all the time and many of them are plausible to those in the outside world (my MIL for instance is very plausible) but their nice/nasty cycle (he simply reverted back to the nice part) is all part of the cycle of abuse and that is a continuous one.

Yeah I know re. the nice/nasty cycle, the only thing that gives me hope is that FIL this time, rather than getting the emotional payoff of carrying on his bad behaviour and then feeling warm towards us as a result of us putting up with it, was obliged to get out his nice behaviour after I told him off. It's like training a bloody dog. My mother would have doubled down at that point but FIL seemed to back off and I do wonder if that's a sign that he's manageable with boundaries. For myself I couldn't be happier if I never saw the bloke again, but I feel like the kids might benefit from having a relationship with their gran at least - but she comes as a package unfortunately. I also want to make sure that any move towards reduced contact comes from DH and not from me, I want to take myself right out of that whole argument. DH is a good egg but he has a habit of trying to pin his own decisions on other people and he can fuck right off with this one. That's why I say, I need to drop the rope, and let him feel the effect of having to deal with his dad.

Thanks for the responses. My siblings don't get on my case because one of them never sees her unless he wants something, the other lives at the other end of the country and sees her for about three days once a year. Each visit she manages to get an expensive present bought for her, so she doesn't want to rock the boat.
I did go NC for three years a long time ago. It gave me headspace, but I feel at this stage of my life and hers I do not want the aggravation. I need to find a way to manage her without her upsetting and hurting me. I 'grey rock' her as much as I can, but it's very draining. I do feel sorry for her as she doesn't realise how much her behaviour impacts on people. I think she's full of unexpressed rage which leaks out.

I don't live with her or rely on her, but i have moved to the same area after years of living hundreds of miles away, and feel some responsibility for making sure she is OK. She can be kind and nice, but then there's the sword that goes under the armour when you are least expecting it.
I would love to have a good relationship with her but don't know how.

Well it does make life easier if you can walk away when needed, so that is an advantage. Some of those Captain Awkward links give some ideas on how to limit contact, e.g. how to manage expectations over how long/often you're going to respond to calls or texts, so that might be helpful. Meeting in a neutral place or always having someone else with you can help, as she's likely to be more polite if you have onlookers? And is there a way of removing yourself if she gets too much? If she starts to be nasty could you say to her something like "oh mum you seem to be a bit out of sorts today, I don't want to tire you, I'll go." You don't break the politeness taboo that way, but you stop having to listen to the nastiness and your mother may decide that she'd rather be nice and have your company.

I'd love to hear more from other people on the thread who are managing ongoing relationships with their difficult family members. @lizzie48 your mother also keeps things very polite, doesn't she?

Sadly I don't think there is anything we can suggest that will actually improve the relationship - I think you can improve the day to day interaction though which is something. I suspect that they have their best relationships with us in their heads, with the idealised version of us they imagine, and the best you can do in real life is find ways to limit the amount of contact so that that idealised version never really gets interrupted.

It's different for me really in that my DM isn't nasty to me, she's just got very poor boundaries and is controlling, which very much annoys my DH. She's rude at times as well, in the guise of 'constructive criticism', particularly about what I should be wearing. She's also extremely interfering with our parenting, for example she pushes her way in when DH or I are disciplining our DDs. I end up feeling undermined, and as a result I've limited her contact with her DGDs.

I think she's co-dependent rather than a narcissist tbh. But she's very manipulative, complains about me to my DSis, like when she complained about us taking our 19 year old au pair with us on holiday rather than her. She also complains to DSis that I never call her. That's true, but I do email her, which I find much easier to cope with.

Ah that is a bit different Lizzie, sorry, I'd forgotten the details. But have you got strategies that work with her to establish boundaries that might help? How did you negotiate to do shorter visits?

It was my F who was the abuser, my DM was the enabler though I can now see that she was a victim of EA herself. I actually haven't ever negotiated with her about it. I just stopped contacting her so much and my DDs have shown no sign of missing her at all.

The sad thing is that since I've stopped inviting her to social occasions at our house, I've actually found that I like it better without her, because when she's involved she always tries to take control over it and I just don't enjoy the event at all. It's sad, because I know she's lonely and wants to be involved in our lives, but she's hardly going to change now, at 79.

My parents have zero interest in my children, their grandchildren. They never ask how they are doing at school or what they are interested in. Then they get uptight when they do see them (a couple of times a year) and the kids are not attentive to them. I just feel sad when older people I know are so into their grandchildren.

My mother ambushed me this morning at 7.30am. With presents for the kids. She knew I had plans and had to leave at nine.

I politely asked her to leave several times and she wouldn't, said she had every right to be there and she wasn't leaving.

I ended up calling the police as I felt so vulnerable in my own home and she stormed off saying as a teacher she couldn't risk her job.

I'm still in shock. She was cradling my son being all loving to him like I was some crazy person.

You only see their true colours when you instate a boundary.

I've done it.

A couple of weeks back I wrote in AIBU about going NC with my mum but not my DF and was pointed to these threads. The advice I was given on my own AIBU was in parts really tough, but constructive, making me really think.

And on Friday after an awful, awkward two hours with my parents I texted my dad and said in future I wasn't going to be leaving the children in the care of someone who had threatened to hit me nor was I prepared to continue fighting my own mother for his affection (she is very jealous of my relationship with my dad). I then exited the "family" (mother, sisters) whatsapp group.

Yesterday morning I had a shitty text from my mum to the tune of "I’m shocked at you leaving the group: you've got newfound horrific destructive and negative family values from your ex - how tragic that he has rubbed off on you - I'm here if you ever need me" and I finally plucked up the courage and wrote back, telling her my ex has nothing to do with the piss poor mother-daughter relationship we have always had, that she should stop projecting, and instead work out how to fix what she has further broken. That her behaviour over the summer when she threatened to hit me was outrageous - still no apology - and I was no longer prepared to be treated like that. I then texted the sister who is talking to me (the other one isn’t - apart from to tell me my six year old is a “spiteful little shit” for calling her 11yo DS “fat” - 2.5 weeks AFTER the fact but that’s another thread) and told her I was no longer prepared to be the scapegoat or the black sheep. And that I will no longer gloss over my mother’s behaviour where they all keep giving excuses (facilitating) like “mum had a tough childhood give her a break, you know what she’s like.”

None of them had an answer yesterday. They are probably all chatting on another group about “Scooby’s nervous breakdown” because they won’t know who else to blame. It’s ALWAYS been me.

This morning I feel like a weight has been lifted. I’ve been spending time with people who have been happy for me in my new found confidence and happiness, my independence, they express they are “energised” in my company. I do feel great, this past year going through a truly horrendous divorce has allowed me to break free of the EA and FA from my ex and I’m not going to sit back and allow my family to take over the reins of control and manipulation.

I worry I’ll be crashing back to Earth with a bump at some point but I’m going to work out how to use my mended (and no longer clipped) wings to make sure I ease my landing. Thanks for reading if you’ve got this far.

Here's the link to my AIBU to give a little more of the background:

To go NC with "D"M (but not DF....)http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3345336-to-go-nc-with-d-m-but-not-df

Well done for standing up to them Scooby and making it clear that their behaviour is unacceptable to you and you are putting clear boundaries in place.

We're managing a LC relationship with PIL (many covert narcissistic traits - the most obvious of which is splitting the children in a relentless quest for supply by any means possible - lies, shit stirring, comparing). When I, and the grandchildren from us and SIL, came along I made things worse by eroding the boundaries that DH had put in place. I had no idea. He was hopeful that grandchildren would mean a fresh start though. Turns out it was same old. I ended up having a significant amount of counselling (having come family broken by tragedy I was pretty gutted to find the inlaws being as they are).

It has taken me years to get to this point but this is how we manage:

• Keep visits infrequent and short (less than 45 minutes, preferably 25, after that they can't seem to keep themselves from sharing their judgments about others, attempting to shit stir or be PA in some way).

• Only answer the phone when it is truly convenient (rarely). I used to be shocked that DH didn't answer the phone when they called and wouldn't rush to call back. I nagged him to call back. Now I just don't care. The reply is often a one line email.

*Grey rock talk

• Don't ask for any favours at all

• Don't make or even suggest the children maintain a relationship with them. They were all over our son when he competed at a high level in a sport, desperate to know how he was doing. He stopped it three years ago and that was when their interest in him completely stopped.

• They have been asked countless times over the years ahead to not just pop in. They just can't cope with this at all (they live 5 min away). Next time they do it were just not going to answer the door. I was shocked when my counsellor suggested it over a year ago but now I'm at a point where it seems so obvious...

• Increasingly call them out by asking them to clarify statements. They like to talk in riddles with no substance behind them (usually to shit stir) or to be PA. We both used to go along with it or not say anything (even when it was an obvious lie or gross over exaggeration). Seen a downturn in these type of things (coupled with cutting the visit short whilst they are still in good behaviour mode) since. Definitely will have been branded difficult as a result.

• Never invite them round any more. I used to be the one doing all the Sunday lunch invitations/ BBQ/Meals out etc. Now DH will pop in on mother's day/father's day to keep the peace and we will pop in on their birthdays and that is it. They can come round for a quick, scheduled, visit if they wish.

• Try to keep our high days for ourselves. They always want to see us on the actual day - even our anniversary. We're always busy so arrange the day before. We're expected to provide Christmas dinner for them (they never offer to host, even when they were working age but didn't work and in excellent health (still in excellent health)) - we've stopped now. We take them out for a meal in the run up but we don't host them anymore. They didn't like it - we don't care.

I’ve started to read Peter Walker’s book about CPTSD and I’m getting increasingly angry at my dm. No, I’m actually fucking angry at her and her beloved shitty small man syndrome husband (my SF).

On the surface we had a good child hood but so dysfunctional inside. I’ve been nc 4 years now and slowly unpicking the issues and trying to be brave and face my own issues. It’s just so bloody hard

Is it good or bad being angry at them now? I was never allowed an opinion so I really don’t know. But I do know I hate them. I just need some kind of validation so badly I’m nearly 46 so this makes me feel just so ridiculous.

Reading Peter Walker’s book has struck a strong chord. I am the lost child, still in freeze mode. I didn’t know this before but I know now that I use disassociation as a coping method. I used to wonder how I can switch off so easily. Now I know.

Reading back I’m sorry I used the term small man syndrome, I shouldn’t have.

Helipad anger isn't intrinsically good or bad - it's a signal to your conscious brain that you need to pay attention to something.

Some of us with dysfunctional childhoods were taught that anger isn't an 'allowed' emotion - maybe that was you too, I don't know?

It sounds really corny and a bit 'woo', but it might help to just accept that you feel angry, and live with it for a bit, without judging yourself for feeling it. If you can do that you might find you can work out for yourself what it's telling you.

I agree with SpareBedroom - one of the things that my counsellor tried to get me to do (it took a long time with me) was just to sit with my emotions, accept them, and not push them away Helipad.

I'm the same age as you and felt them same as I started seeing a counsellor a couple of years back (it has been off and on - not constant) that is was in some way ridiculous that I hadn't sorted this out with myself by now. I don't think that all now - I also had to learn to be kinder to myself as well as accept my emotions.

Thank you for that. Well done to you! There’s a lot I can take from this, particularly the ‘don’t set yourself on fire!!’

Its been a while since I've visited here (under a different user name too).

Last November my DM decided to cut us off after I challenged her, quite politely but firmly, about her habit of saying certain things in front of my DC. Both DM and DF completely ignored my DC over Christmas. DD's birthday was the month after and they sent her a very large voucher. It was a minefield trying to get the DC to realise that this wasn't their fault and they hadn't done anything wrong, but we just about managed it.

I spoke to my DF and told him just how much their actions had hurt my DC. Since then the DC have had sporadic phone calls with them (DH always handles these and ensures he can stop the call should either start with anything inappropriate).

I've begun to see DF in a neutral place where we both attend. He has so far attempted to try to get me to let them have DD only for a night (it would be a cold day in hell before that happened - they aren't physically capable) and keeps trying to get me to show up on the doorstep with them, absolutely no thought of how much the resultant atmosphere will muck the DC up. I have taken to grey rocking techniques when he starts, and any meet up is thankfully short.

DS has his birthday soon and keeps asking if GPs are sending him a present like they did with DD. We don't know. DF hasn't mentioned it and their constant preference towards DD has been noticed by DS. Slightly bricking it now.

Thank you for the support you gave me last year, its made everything a lot easier to process. Its sad because DM having to be the driver for all relationships means the entire side (bar DF) now don't speak to us either.

I'm not willing to sweep this under the carpet. Ever. DM doesn't like this as it goes against the order she created.

Hi ball

Women like your mother always but always need a willing enabler to help them. And that role here is your dad's.

I would work further on your boundaries re your dad. I would stop meeting your DF as he remains your mother's hatchet man and enabler in all this dysfunction. He has also failed abjectly both as a parent to you and in protecting you from your mother's malign influences. He clearly cannot be trusted because they want you to have your DD (not your son either) for a night despite them both being physically unable. Your parents were not good parents to your own self when you were growing up and they remain abjectly awful as grandparent figures now.

Your son is certainly noticing that they favour his sister (and I think too that no present from these people will be at all forthcoming either) and that could well damage their own relationship going forward. I would put a firm brake on either of them communicating with your children in any way shape or form from now on because they cannot be trusted as far as they can be thrown. I realise that DH is handling comms re them but that really does need to cease too because this action of his is further narcissistic supply to such disordered of thinking people.

I would actually consider further lowering all forms of contact to a point of zero.

Atilla sadly its a sports watching and his seat is close to mine so I can't quite avoid him - though I have managed quite a few getting my backside in as late as possible and spending all of half time in the toilet! Hence the grey rocking. Often he will just talk about the sport which I can cope with.

Contact is dwindling thankfully. They don't make much effort. If no acknowledgement of DS's birthday is forthcoming then DH will not facilitate anymore. He's been happy to handle the calls so far, but is pretty angry at them himself. That will tip DH over the edge. Though somehow I think they'd like that - an excuse to blame DH rather than themselves.