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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Assistance required navigating convoluted family bollocks.

135 replies

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 20:54

My Dad is in his 80's. He was a corporate Madmen type of guy before retirement- very successful but all his focus was on work 7-8pm days, lots of travel etc. He has no hobbies, won't join any groups etc and has no ability to entertain himself. His opinion is always right, and he finds offence very easily. He's bored as hell now, and I feel for him - but he won't take a look at himself to see what he's like and why people respond to him the way they do. He used to drink far too much, and never noticed everyone around him stopped drinking to cope with his giant strops and arguements when pissed. He has now been forced to not drink for medical reasons. ( Thanks be to whatever). Christmas is sober now.

My Mum is sweet and should have left him years ago but wouldn't and didn't. Her family is in another country, my father has no one left other than me, her and my children. I can't let his behaviour adversly affect her. She and I speak regularly and have a pretty good relationship. She's an awesome Nan to my boys.

I am an adopted only child who lives many miles away now. My childhood was fine but I was expected to perform and succeed .I did this in ways I am happy with, but it was not what my father wanted - this is tale for another thread.

My DH is a calm guy- slow to offend ,who has been wonderful coping with my controlling, grumpy ,drunk, bossy father. He is as stubborn as all hell though and once he decides something that is often it. We have been together for over 20 years. His family is very wealthy, very nice, a bit "high-society" but fairly kind and tolerant. He has several siblings.

Last year, my FIL died after a fairly awful battle with Alzheimers and alcohol induced dementia. Christmas was in the city where both sets of parents live, plus half husbands siblings. Our plans are usually breakfast at my parents where we stay ( no room at MIL) and lunch with husbands family. My parents have always come too as I feel I can't leave them alone on Christmas day with no grandchildren as I feel bad for my mother. My MIL intiated them coming along, and it has been this way for close to 15 years .

So FIL has died, it's the first Christmas without him - so quite sad for my DH's family.
One SIL really doesn't like my Dad and had asked ( after my parents were already invited by MIL) for him not to come. Cue much shit behind the scenes but MIL said too late, he's coming. To be honest, the behind the scenes stuff upsets me, as it's hard to hear my parents bad mouthed but I am very aware of how difficult my Dad is- so fair enough-ish. So they come along.

And.....my Dad chooses to take offence on the day that not enough fuss was made of him at MIL's lunch annd has a go at my DH. When my DH said thank you for coming to him, he got some response that was critical of the families hospitality and that he was treated like a guest ( ?), he wasn't treated with enough importance and family members didn't make enough effort. I wasn't there for the conversation but my DH came back white with rage and refused to stay at my parents place for the rest of the trip. It was awkward beyond belief. And left a stink in the air that has lasted almost all year. My DH expects my father to apologise, my father believes he has done nothing wrong. He's even gone as far as sending an email to my MIL telling her DH is causing a rift in the family.

My husband was big enough to visit him in hospital during the year( it was only by chance DH was in town when the hospitalisation occured and the visit was on my suggestion- it was major surgery and I was there to help my Mum), which eased unspoken hostilities but things between them are not good. If I join in and try to mediate, my fathers reaction will be ridiculous, martyred etc and will make my mothers life miserable. My involvement will not help.

We got through this Christmas at ours this year, it was definitely awkward - my father expects to not be treated like a guest, yet expects to be waited on/entertained etc ( FFS). We made it , through my DH regularly having to fix a fence at the arse end of our property etc.

BUT......

Next year it's a city Christmas again. and my DH has refused outright to let my father set foot at his MIL's house for Christmas. And refused to stay at my parents. And refuses to discuss it with my Dad.
My Mum will be mortified, there is no room to stay at MIL's as SIL who hates my Dad dominates all space at the house, and I'll be with the kids at my parents with no DH dealing with shit all week.

What do I do? No contact is not an option.

( and if you made it through this spiel , thank you enormously)

OP posts:
Fishface77 · 26/12/2017 21:02

Spend Christmas at home and see no one?

Wankycandles · 26/12/2017 21:03

What fishface said.
That's way too much drama

Onlymeeeeee · 26/12/2017 21:05

Can you go somewhere completely different? E. G. Kinder hotel, euro Disney?

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 21:11

I can't do the stay at home, see no one thing- as I am an only child and my mother will be hurt through no real fault of her own.Same for my MIL, she only gets the alternate Christmas.

This colossal pile of bollocks MUST be navigated and I have no idea how.

OP posts:
oprahfan · 26/12/2017 21:12

Eeeeeeek!!! The usual family fun and frolics at Christmastime!
I’m so sorry to hear about all the bollocks you’ve been through.
It’s pretty clear something new has to be done here, a change of scene esp for you and DH. Your fathers behaviour is appalling to say the least.
You do not have to have to do as you are told. You and your DH have your own lives and you do not have to invite ANYONE anywhere.
You can change the situation as you please. Sod your Dad.
There is no need to put up with such awful behaviour and upset just because tradition dictates.
I’m with your DH. I wouldn’t discuss how you wish a special time with him, to your father.
You do realise your father is unable to mellow and become a decent human being now?
Nothing anyone will do or say can change his attitude.
But you and your DH can at least decide how you wish to go on with this situation.
Best of luck!

Cricrichan · 26/12/2017 21:16

Can you do every other Christmas?

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 21:17

I have no expectations my father can be fixed. He's way too old.
Which is sort of my postion in all this. He's a fucker, we all know he's a fucker- how can we live with this? As, if I say sod my Dad, I'm accidently sodding my mother too, which I will not do.
My DH is completely justified. My Dad has behaved disgracefully but......ergh. My kids still think Grandpa is great.

OP posts:
CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 21:18

We do, do every other Christmas. My parents come to every one. The alternate involves my husands family.

OP posts:
oprahfan · 26/12/2017 21:21

You can live with this. Something has to change here. Hold discussions with Ma to get her thoughts. An answer or compromise will surface.
This can change. The kids will think he’s great, good on them. You also don’t have to make a decision all on your own either.

SandAndSea · 26/12/2017 21:22

I feel your pain. The fact is though, we are all responsible for ourselves. Your parents have made their own decisions which you are not responsible for. I would either, find a way to host everyone (or whoever you fancy). Or, go to your in-laws and give your parents lots of notice to arrange something else for themselves. Stop tying yourself up in knots. Just do what works for you and your immediate family first and let everyone else make their own choices.

oprahfan · 26/12/2017 21:22

And no one is telling your Ma to sod off in this. It’s Christmas. One stinking day. ONE day. Ridiculous expectations.

sonjadog · 26/12/2017 21:25

You stay somewhere else nearby - Airbnb or something similar. Make an excuse about needing the space. For Christmas you divide your time so that you go to ILS but also visit parents. Yes, your father will be annoyed but too bad about him - your ILs don’t want him there and that is their right.

oprahfan · 26/12/2017 21:25

Why does tradition dictate one year this...next year that? I agree with sandandsea. Look after your immediate family first 👍🏻

titchy · 26/12/2017 21:25

Your parents are adults,not children to be accommodated despite being a pain. Invite your ILs and your DM next year. Make it clear your DF is not welcome. If your DM chooses to side with your father rather than you then that's her choice.

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 21:47

The tradition of alternate years developed as both my family, and SIL live away from both lots of parents.
There is another reason involving a holiday type home owned by DH's family which was massive and accomodated everyone, but that has now been sold with FIL's death. More detail could be outing.

I have tried to discuss this with my mother, but while she is well versed in his behaviour, she just won't hear it. Then she gets all timid , and afraid to offend and we don't hear from her for ages.

I understand these are all adults who make their choices, but I just feel incredibly bad for my mother. I would call him an emotional abuser, a gaslighter and a narcissicist - all of those things and when I intervene I then get to leave, which my mum does not. She gets the fallout.

I think I can deal with the you can't come to Christmas lunch thing, but it'll be impossible for me to not stay there, renting accomodation would be very pricey anywhere near either set of parents ( very fancy areas).

I really don't expect in-laws to accomodate the old bastard this year, but it's DH not staying that will be tricky, and the breaking of this bloody tradition. I can't inflict him on them again.

I tie myself in knots being an only child, especially when I am essentially the only family in this country my mother has. I'm afraid that if I address this with my mother and father, the shit will really hit the fan and my kids will loose their most involved GP's. MIL has hoards of grandkids.

I am aware the expectations are ridiculous, and this is just one day and one scenario. The whole thing will involve at least 4 days , we are a long way away so have to stay for a while to get over the 14 hour drive. There are a fair few more situations that are ongoing, this is just the worst.

I just don't know if me weighing in would help or grossly hinder it all. Or if I should continue to hide under a rock.

OP posts:
GladysKnight · 26/12/2017 21:55

You've said 'my mum will be mortified' but have you asked her? Maybe she'll understand and not be surprised? In my family we would deal with this via transparent euphemisms about people being 'very busy' 'awfully tired and really needing their own beds' etc to avoid Saying the Unsayable. But that does depend on everyone playing the game, and to prefer grey areas and unasked questions to Awkwardness

oprahfan · 26/12/2017 22:02

Actually, if you’re in the City as you say, at Christmas, renting an apartment for a 4/5 days is jolly decent. Seriously! There’s lots of very very good apartments all over the city. We live a good 12 hours + drive from the capital too. As for your Ma with the fallout, she’s a grown up.
I’ve had to deal with my parents this way. My mother the abuser, the difficult and insulting one, my Dad in the crossfire. He’s an adult.

Graphista · 26/12/2017 22:03

No, enough! BOTH your parents have made choices here, your father to be a prick and offend people who have kindly welcomed them into their lives and your mother by enabling him.

You DON'T Have to put up with it and your dh certainly doesn't. He owes your dh and mil one hell of an apology and I would be very insistent on that. Would not be speaking to him again until it was done.

You have a choice too, only child or not, if this were your dh posting he'd be told he doesn't have a fil problem as much as a DW problem. If you don't make it clear to your father how utterly embarrassed, ashamed and angry you are you are also enabling. Tough but true.

BlueUggs · 26/12/2017 22:15

My dad can be like this.
Recently, I called him on it. I did it calmly by email. He didn't like it and sulked for weeks and my mum got the brunt of it.
I didn't back down.
He realised no one wS interested in his ridiculous tantrum and got over himself.

HeebieJeebies456 · 26/12/2017 22:28

Sounds like you're in FOG where your parents are concerned (fear, obligation, guilt).

Your mum chooses to enable your dad and so do you.
You can't change your mums behaviour but you can change yours.

Your dh/in laws are being negatively impacted due to you and your mum enabling your dad.
The in-laws don't want another xmas ruined by him which is understandable.

Do either of your parents feel any guilt due to the way they behaviour and choices impact on you or others? No!
So stop deferring to them.

Next year make your boundaries clear - you've made time to spend some part of xmas day with them, and now you're spending the other part with in-laws and they're not invited.

Or spend xmas at home and invite whoever you want to your house and make your house rules/boundaries very clear to all.

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 22:56

Thank you all for responding. I know I have to do something, I just can't figure out what or how.

I'm actually somewhat scared of him ( DF) and the way he responds to criticism. He can be very vicious. We were a very emotionally constipated unit of 3 for a long time. There are reasons for living so far away.
I absolutely agree that I am possibly enabling him, and my DH is an angel but he's far too old to be asked to change, and I just.......can't...it'll be awful...for years. And I wonder, considering his age ( mid-eighties several health issues,) whether it's worth causing such a stink at the end of his life? I believe him to be more unwell than I am aware of , but they never communicate this stuff to me - again - I know this is weird, I have spoken about it etc.......

I have spoken to both parents re this mess when it happened- he put it on DH, Mum denied it could've happened whilst knowing it did as she was standing with them. There are so many layers to all of this, it's stupid. This one is is really the icing on a very complicated series of things.

The way he and my mothers lives have ended up is really sad, and a big lesson in not investing all of yourself in work- which is where some of his problems come from i.e he's so bored he obsesses over stuff.

They've made this dynamic together , I am sure I have allowed it , my husband and his family in this situation have been so very graceful and tolerant, I just want to know where to start sorting this.

What words to you use for someone like my father , who is always right, to resolve this, given that I couldn't live with myself if he takes his toys ( and my mother) and then dies before its sorted?

OP posts:
CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 22:58

FOG sounds completely spot on too.

OP posts:
Somerville · 26/12/2017 23:13

What a lovely family you married into. And what a good daughter you are to your parents. Flowers

It strikes me that you're worrying now about something that is a whole year away. A lot can change in a year. I'd assure your husband that you won't ever expect your father to be invited to your widowed MIL's after last year's offence, and then stop worrying about the rest of it for now.

Somerville · 26/12/2017 23:16

Sorry, that sounded trite. I know it's not easy to stop worrying. But it's actually not that likely that the situation will be exactly the same as now in eleven months time, when decisions need to be made; you're giving yourself extra worry by stressing about it when you don't have all the information.

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 23:24

Somerville, I did marry into a nice family.

My husband knows I don't expect Dad to be invited. Dad will expect to be though. It's strategies for dealing with that I need that don't involve brutal truths.

Unfortunately, it's very likely it won't change. I'm trying to think ahead to start planting the seeds early so any sniping and innuendo is over before the ....er...festive season really.

OP posts: