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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Assistance required navigating convoluted family bollocks.

135 replies

CommanderDaisy · 26/12/2017 20:54

My Dad is in his 80's. He was a corporate Madmen type of guy before retirement- very successful but all his focus was on work 7-8pm days, lots of travel etc. He has no hobbies, won't join any groups etc and has no ability to entertain himself. His opinion is always right, and he finds offence very easily. He's bored as hell now, and I feel for him - but he won't take a look at himself to see what he's like and why people respond to him the way they do. He used to drink far too much, and never noticed everyone around him stopped drinking to cope with his giant strops and arguements when pissed. He has now been forced to not drink for medical reasons. ( Thanks be to whatever). Christmas is sober now.

My Mum is sweet and should have left him years ago but wouldn't and didn't. Her family is in another country, my father has no one left other than me, her and my children. I can't let his behaviour adversly affect her. She and I speak regularly and have a pretty good relationship. She's an awesome Nan to my boys.

I am an adopted only child who lives many miles away now. My childhood was fine but I was expected to perform and succeed .I did this in ways I am happy with, but it was not what my father wanted - this is tale for another thread.

My DH is a calm guy- slow to offend ,who has been wonderful coping with my controlling, grumpy ,drunk, bossy father. He is as stubborn as all hell though and once he decides something that is often it. We have been together for over 20 years. His family is very wealthy, very nice, a bit "high-society" but fairly kind and tolerant. He has several siblings.

Last year, my FIL died after a fairly awful battle with Alzheimers and alcohol induced dementia. Christmas was in the city where both sets of parents live, plus half husbands siblings. Our plans are usually breakfast at my parents where we stay ( no room at MIL) and lunch with husbands family. My parents have always come too as I feel I can't leave them alone on Christmas day with no grandchildren as I feel bad for my mother. My MIL intiated them coming along, and it has been this way for close to 15 years .

So FIL has died, it's the first Christmas without him - so quite sad for my DH's family.
One SIL really doesn't like my Dad and had asked ( after my parents were already invited by MIL) for him not to come. Cue much shit behind the scenes but MIL said too late, he's coming. To be honest, the behind the scenes stuff upsets me, as it's hard to hear my parents bad mouthed but I am very aware of how difficult my Dad is- so fair enough-ish. So they come along.

And.....my Dad chooses to take offence on the day that not enough fuss was made of him at MIL's lunch annd has a go at my DH. When my DH said thank you for coming to him, he got some response that was critical of the families hospitality and that he was treated like a guest ( ?), he wasn't treated with enough importance and family members didn't make enough effort. I wasn't there for the conversation but my DH came back white with rage and refused to stay at my parents place for the rest of the trip. It was awkward beyond belief. And left a stink in the air that has lasted almost all year. My DH expects my father to apologise, my father believes he has done nothing wrong. He's even gone as far as sending an email to my MIL telling her DH is causing a rift in the family.

My husband was big enough to visit him in hospital during the year( it was only by chance DH was in town when the hospitalisation occured and the visit was on my suggestion- it was major surgery and I was there to help my Mum), which eased unspoken hostilities but things between them are not good. If I join in and try to mediate, my fathers reaction will be ridiculous, martyred etc and will make my mothers life miserable. My involvement will not help.

We got through this Christmas at ours this year, it was definitely awkward - my father expects to not be treated like a guest, yet expects to be waited on/entertained etc ( FFS). We made it , through my DH regularly having to fix a fence at the arse end of our property etc.

BUT......

Next year it's a city Christmas again. and my DH has refused outright to let my father set foot at his MIL's house for Christmas. And refused to stay at my parents. And refuses to discuss it with my Dad.
My Mum will be mortified, there is no room to stay at MIL's as SIL who hates my Dad dominates all space at the house, and I'll be with the kids at my parents with no DH dealing with shit all week.

What do I do? No contact is not an option.

( and if you made it through this spiel , thank you enormously)

OP posts:
RunRabbitRunRabbit · 26/12/2017 23:32

Where to start sorting this? Well, first of all stop treating your mother like an innocent helpless child rather than a grown ass woman with a mind of her own.

The practical arrangements are really quite simple, followed by millions of people at Christmas every year.

Next year is City Christmas. You don't stay with your parents. Option 1 is for DH to ask his mother if you can stay rather than SIL next years. If that's not OK then you get an Airbnb or hotel over Christmas. If you can't afford anything nearby you get something further out and pay for taxis or you drive. You say something about it being easier to your parents (after you've booked).

If your schedule allows, you pop in to see your parents Christmas Eve or the Day or Boxing Day

Your mother knows she is married to a dickhead. You not staying over one Christmas is not the end of the world and she will know it. Yes, maybe your dad the big bully will use it as a convenient stick to beat her with but that isn't your problem.

As for your rather dramatic statement I couldn't live with myself if he takes his toys ( and my mother) and then dies before its sorted? well I think you have that all wrong on several counts.

Firstly, if your mother values not pissing him off more than showing love to you then that's shit but it is her choice to treat you like shit, not his choice.

Secondly, imagine he died and you had not stood up to him? Imagine you had always pandered so he wouldn't take his toys? Imagine if you had made your own husband spend Christmas staying away from his own children because you were too scared of a bully? After your dad dies you will have no way to demonstrate that you value your DH over your dad.

After he dies you couldn't show your children that you value them staying with their dad on Christmas Eve. You would have shown that you have so little security of your own mother's love that you would rather they lose time with their father, than for you to risk the possibility that she and he would sulk and ignore you to their deathbeds.

I'd choose making a stand while DF and DM are still alive to see you stand up for what is right. To put your own husband and children first.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 26/12/2017 23:37

They will be pissed off. Bullies and their enablers are always pissed off when they don't get what they want.

If you want it to all blow over before next Christmas, tell them now that next year you are going to DH's, that they are not invited and you intend to stay with MIL (OK so that might not happen but they don't need to know).

Tantrums are had. Maybe they'll be over by next Christmas.

Ask your DH what he thinks. He seems to have his head on straight.

Pluckedpencil · 26/12/2017 23:53

Agree with RunRabbit I'm afraid. I actually think you do too. I wouldn't give him lots of fuel for his anger. I would just say, he ruffled feathers last year, so they are not invited this year. Why will dh let dad stay at yours, but he won't stay at theirs? Seems a bit odd?

Graphista · 26/12/2017 23:54

And what about your poor mil? I can't imagine she's much younger than your dad.

Agree with everything runrabbit said too. You're just giving in to more of his bullying.

Be calm and clear and tell him his behaviour was unacceptable, he owes your mil and dh a genuine apology, and that as a result of HIS behaviour you won't be spending Christmas with him.

another20 · 27/12/2017 00:04

Wow.

Your vile alcoholic bully DF insulted and abused your bereaved DH's family and grieving MIL on the most painful day of the year after the death of her husband/their father.

Christmas day is a very sad day that your DH's family needed to endure and grieve in private and with respect.

Your DF did a despicable thing and your response is to try to work out how you can continue to enable this hideous behaviour.

You need to prioritise the right thing here and it is not accommodating the discomfort YOU feel in dealing with your DF.

I would spend the next 12 months investing in counselling for yourself to understand why you priortise this concern and allow this behaviour to be acceptable over the needs of your grieving DH and your MIL.

fc301 · 27/12/2017 00:07

It's not your job to look after your Mum in this!!
You are the child. They are the parents. They both need to grow up and start treating people with common decency.
This will sound callous but your mum has made her bed and chooses to lie in it.
I need you to know that I totally understand your fear for your mother (I have been through the same) but of all people YOU can not fix things for her.
Oh and they have forfeited the right to spend Xmas with you. Make other arrangements with a clear conscience 💐

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 00:18

my DH has refused outright to let my father set foot at his MIL's house for Christmas

If your mil invites your father, why does you dh get to over rule who can or can't step foot in her house? If it's your mil's house, it's her decision

another20 · 27/12/2017 00:20

Sorry but your DM is a fucking disgrace to deny what she saw and heard

Butterymuffin · 27/12/2017 00:22

You're wavering about taking the side of your husband, who is great, and is the father of your children, over your dad, who is not at all great and doesn't care about others. You seem worried about pissing off your dad before his death, but not your husband who will have many more years and time parenting with you. Look at this situation and really think about it. Your dad knows exactly what he's done, but thinks he shouldn't suffer for it even if everyone else then does. Don't go along with that.

another20 · 27/12/2017 00:30

Mum56 - the MIL invited the OP's DF LAST year - despite the protestations of her grieving children - and he predictably behaved disgracefully to the family at this very sensitive time. OP's DF will not be invited NEXT year, OP accepts this and knows that he will kick off. Issue is that DH does not want to stay with FIL for 4 days - OP is considering staying with her DF whilst DH stays away from his wife and children as she doesnt want to cause upset. But seems her DF appalling behaviour and need to dominate be placated trumps the rational normal response needs of her DH - ans the DCs suffer being apart from their DF at Christmas......misplaced loyalties IMO

TinklyLittleLaugh · 27/12/2017 00:40

OP swap the sexes here, you a DH placating your horrendous DM while your DW stays apart from the children at Christmas. In other words, a classic MiL thread.

The whole of Mumsnet would be up in arms saying you needed to grow a spine, deal with your toxic parent and prioritize your spouse.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 01:01

Mum56 - the MIL invited the OP's DF LAST year

Yes and the bit about dh not letting her father step foot in mil's house is about next year.

hth

Next year it's a city Christmas again. and my DH has refused outright to let my father set foot at his MIL's house for Christmas

MistressDeeCee · 27/12/2017 04:20

Good for your DH. If you won't see sense and stop running after your silly dad + expecting everyone else to deem him important and put up with his bullshit, then somebody has to.

I hope your DH sticks to his guns and ignores any and all attempts by you to centre yourself in drama, and change his mind.

The situations you have described are utterly outrageous, concerning your DM and. Your MIL.

In your shoes I would maintain relationship with DM but would absolutely not, with a raging narcissist. Nor would I aim to inflict him on anyone else. You're married to your DH, not your dad. Priorities, and boundaries. Once you get those sorted your family dynamic will be much nicer

Smitff · 27/12/2017 04:47

Haven’t RTFT but your DF sounds a bit like mine. In your shoes I would:

  • not impose anymore on MIL. She’s been very kind but if she minds, respect this. I wouldn’t care so much about SIL, would leave DH to sort her out. If SIL causes too much of a stink about your DF and it stresses you out, I would insist DF not come for your MIL’s sake, not SIL’s. SIL would have got what she wants but that’s incidental to the main thing, which is your MIL having a peaceful Xmas.
  • I would go to your MIL for breakfast xmas morning with your DH and DC, then go to your parents with DC and DH if he wants. I wouldn’t encourage him to come, but would quietly hope he respects his DC’s relationship with your parents enough to go with you. Also, presumably he’d want to spend the whole day with them anyway. Offer to do the cooking for your DM if it’s too much, and take the easy way out wherever possible
  • I would also spend more time with your MIL around Xmas day
Peaceonearthplease · 27/12/2017 05:12

I get the convulted drama & bollocks, OP. Why not book an xmas mini break with your parents & take them away to an hotel in another city/country? I did it this year. Booked up early in the summer, announced it breezily to all the family, gave elderly parents months to plan, pack, get a little bit excited. It’s been a calm xmas. Sadness about being NC with dramatic sibling who has mental health issues. But we have all enjoyed the break, money well spent. I shudder at the memory of the past 3 xmas holidays & want to delete the drama like this again next year.

Lollipop30 · 27/12/2017 05:31

‘Your mum chooses to enable your dad and so do you.
You can't change your mums behaviour but you can change yours.’

This^

OP you need to get a grip. Both your parents are adults and therefore choose to behave how they do. We have this exact situation with my parents. My mother is rude and obnoxious, my father is pathetic for playing the victim and never standing up for himself/anyone else. Therefore the last 8yrs we have spent Christmas with the in laws, much nicer and no horrible atmosphere or concern that my mother will be vile to them/everyone else.
Your father will never change and you need to accept that. My mother has never in my 30odd years apologised for her behaviour or even recognised that she may be in the wrong, it’s taken this long to realise it truly is not my concern. My mother’s behaviour does not reflect on me, I have sole control of my own behaviour.

OnTheRise · 27/12/2017 10:12

I think you have to start dealing with them now, so that when next Christmas (or next birthday, next celebration) comes around you're ready.

OP, I strongly suggest you go to CaptainAwkward.com and read some of the archived threads there, which will give you a strong idea of how to cope with his many dysfunctions.

This can only continue if everyone plays along with his strops and tantrums. As soon as you all stop enabling him, he will lose all his power and be unable to control or upset you.

Bear in mind that you have to be prepared to walk away from him for this to work. And it could mean that you don't see your parents for a while. But would that be worse than living in the middle of all this unpleasantness? I don't think so.

It's hard, for sure. But you can do it, and you can do it in a way that will make you all feel stronger and better. And you'll end up with a happy Christmas next year.

Amaried · 27/12/2017 12:30

I think in the instance you have to tell your father that he is not invited next year because of his behaviour last year but I see your dilemma regarding your mother. I'd still stay with them for her sake but
But let them have dinner by themselves.

princesssparkle1 · 27/12/2017 12:35

and I'll be with the kids at my parents with no DH dealing with shit all week.

But it's only a week. Your Mum is worth it? Surely?

Joysmum · 27/12/2017 12:43

The choice is whether you take on the reactions and bad behaviour of both your parents by having Christmas without them, or you inflict them on everyone else.

It’s not fair to inflict them on everyone else so it’s better for everyone else accept you for you to do Christmas without them. That’s the stark reality.

ParadiseCity · 27/12/2017 12:53

None of this is your fault or responsibility you know. Flowers

Fwiw I would suggest getting some counselling about your family in general because this is so complicated. And agree with the idea of going away for Christmas! Xx

CountdowntoSanta · 27/12/2017 13:07

Put your DH first. He is behaving admirably against immense odds.

You wouldnt let anyone bully your DC the way your father bullies everyone. Write him a letter telling him you are not happy with the way he treats your DH and your MIL.

Tell him you are not spending Christmas with him again as his treatment of others is unacceptable.

Tell your mum what you've done and make it clear that she's welcome at Christmas.

Maybe your father will see the impact of his bullying. If not, others should not be subjected to him.

eggsandwich · 27/12/2017 13:13

Why is no one sitting your father down and telling him that his behaviour is unacceptable, I’m afraid I agree with your husband on this he must be a bloody saint to put up with your fathers outburst.

I would extend the invitation to your mother but not your father even though she probably won’t go, he needs to learn that there are consequences to his behaviour.

I also feel that you and your mother have been enabling this behaviour and frankly think he will never change now, and think you need to support your husband on this.

Pannacott · 27/12/2017 13:14

You can not mention anything to your dad about next Christmas. If he, at some point, asks if he's been invited, you can simply reply 'No, you haven't heard about an invitation'. If he asks why not (the cheek but there you go), you could lightly say that from your understanding, the consensus is that it didn't work out very well last year, so they've decided not to.

Please do not take your children away from their father on Christmas Day! If you feel the need to spend some time with your parents, do it, but do not take them with you. That would be really quite disgusting.

Maybe try to think of your father as having some illness, dementia or something. If you don't want to provoke him, fine. But you wouldn't pander to someone's dementia-based demands, or inflict them on kind bystanders (or throw your DH or kids under the bus for them).