I'm the other woman, not proud of it, confused - anyone been in this situation?

[MrsMiss]

I realise this is going to prompt an onslaught of criticism, fair enough. I just wondered there are people who could help me as I can't talk in real life.

I'm not excusing my behaviour but context: I had previously only had two relationships - my 'first love' at college, and my husband of 11 years. We have 4 dc. Our relationship was on the surface fine in the early days, but as we had children, and I know people will think 'how could you not know' - his behaviours became more and more difficult to live with, and we embarked on marriage counselling, and eventually dh was diagnosed with Asperger's. We both tried to deal with this as best we could, but after a further year and a half of counselling and best efforts, we both mutually agreed to separate.

I was diagnosed with clinical depression, and felt like my life was not worth living. Single parent, in 40s, part-time work, scraping money together, dealing with loss and disappointment of marriage and the impact of living with emotionally unavailable man who always seemed so harsh/manipulative but also vulnerable, making it hard for me to see the wood for the trees.

I became close friends with a couple, our kids get on well, and we spent time together over the next year or so. Fast forward to a party earlier this year, the man in this couple gets v. drunk and makes a pass at me. I think I'm being really careful to avoid hurting his feelings, and my good friend his wife, and stop things in their tracks. However, I wasn't prepared for how it made me feel. To him it was probably just a drunken fumble. To me, it was highly significant - one of the few times in my life that someone has shown me such attention. He contacted me afterwards and we 'talked', discussing the fact that neither of us 'did this kind of thing' and that it was no big deal, a mistake, hadn't gone too far, no harm done. But then over a period of weeks and months our friendship has gradually developed. To begin with it seemed he was stuck in an unhappy relationship and spending a very brief time talking to me helped him, and me, to feel less lonely. However, now I feel like it is me who has fallen deeply in love with this person, and he is either (a) regretting his actions and looking for a 'safe' exit strategy, (b) in denial and scared about the strength of his initial feelings, worried about everyone else's reaction if it was discovered etc or (c) just chaotically enjoying the rare moments we do get to spend time together, but feeling guilty otherwise. I've obviously tried to talk about it but it never really goes anywhere. He knew before we got together that I was depressed. He knows I find it tough being on my own with the kids, but I genuinely believe he thinks I can help him and he can help me. I swing between being horrified at myself for putting myself in this situation - I know how low my behaviour is, I know what is at stake, I know I can't have much self-respect if I let him basically take what he wants when he wants. But, I do feel so much better for having a connection with someone for the first time in my adult life. I obviously thought I had it with my stb ex dh but was bewildered by his condition, hoodwinked by his manipulation and brought down by the endless negativity and anxiety that our relationship brought to bear on me. Part of me thinks 'why shouldn't I?' but then I remember that I'm not even happy as everything is on his terms. I think I know what people are going to say, and honestly I will read your comments and will think carefully. I know it will be too painful for some people to try to imagine from my perspective, but if anyone has experiences to share that might help me, I would be grateful. Thank you.

MrsC, I think you're a very effective 'barometer' actually, if I can call you that? I've send you post on threads before where the OW has actually wanted to end the relationship and you've managed to put your own pain to one side to really spell it out in a way that isn't judgemental or cruel, just an honest account of what happened to you. You don't owe anybody that but you do it.

Rainy, I'm sorry to say it but you're part of the problem if you do this in RL. Why would you not just distance yourself? Walk away when they're talking about their relationship if you don't consider it authentic?

Either you accept that some relationships will start as a the result of an affair and the pair are now a couple (and finally honest about it), or you don't, in which case you don't need to be complicit in your acceptance of them.

Lying I appreciate that. I've come a long way. Also, you've been very helpful and objective on many occasions and that is what one needs sometimes! I know that I will probably never fully recover from what happened to me. However, my life is full and happy currently, the only issue being my ex and the OW who simply won't fuck off. I think they need to drama to keep it all alive for them, the common enemy if you like. My position now is that if you get yourself into a situation like this and you don't listen to the roll of repeated messages saying the same thing, you've only got yourself to blame. I am far less raw than I was so I can see things a little more objectively now. However, it is clear to me that people in these situations simply cannot see the damage they are doing, or refuse to. OP here being a case in point.

Your OW (and ex) are a special breed indeed, MrsC. I really don't understand why they feel the need to behave the way they do towards you because you've never done anything to deserve their vitriol and nonsense. I think you're absolutely right about the drama because affairs are high octane stuff and, without the elements and the secrecy, there's little substance.

I been cheated on myself and my partner at the time wasn't kind. On the positive side, he kept OW away from me and she kept herself under the radar too. We didn't have kids together so perhaps that helped but he didn't ever blame me for why we broke up, took the responsibility for that himself and whilst we're not friends, we're civil if we see each other.

I'm glad that you're happy and your life is full, MrsC because you truly deserve that.

People aren't perfect and they do some godawful things to each other; affairs being right up there with the worst, but sometimes they don't end and the people involved have to re-integrate into society again, this time as a couple. It's how they handle that re-introduction that is key though because they can never be as carefree as a first time together couple can be and if they don't realise that and accord their new status with careful handling then they cause even more distress.

Having been an OW myself I'm sensitive to the scenario because it's unique; there's nothing like it and nothing else it can be compared to but it leaves a mess in its wake and sometimes an OW (in particular) wakes up from the stupor and wants support to get out. I've a lot of time for that and I respect them.

Other OW just want to chat on about their affair and however much they cover it up (because they know it has no tolerance here) it grates. I don't always post on these threads because sometimes there's just no point and all you get is deletions when the thread explodes. This thread, in my opinion, is just chat from the OW who has nobody else who'll listen to her illogical and selfish reasoning.

I'd have more respect - for OW who are having their affairs regardless - if they just wouldn't post about them at all.

Did you feel flattered when he paid you attention.. didnt you feel that by him giving you "the look" he was disrespecting his wife and kids and therefore disrespecting you.Why did you take him up on his offer.You chose to get with him knowing it was wrong and that it couldn't lead anywhere cos he's not available.Saying you were a single parent and all that stuff is no excuse.Many of us are, but we also have standards.You need to ask yourself why you did this.Were you jealous of your friend? or of their relationship? These things can't just happen on the spur of the moment...I think you were being selfish and that's probably what sets people apart from men and women who cheat and those who wouldn't do this sort of thing.People who cheat just think of themselves.But those who choose not to, think of Everything and Everyone who will be involved if they go ahead with their actions and decide not to.

OP, the more you post, the more I dislike you. Each one of your responses paints an increasingly shittier picture of you. Many of us, including myself had emotionally abusive partners in the past. We are not to blame but a lot of us made the choice at some point to ignore massive red flags. In your case, your ex actually has a condition that is a mitigating factor although I appreciate it doesn’t make it any less painful. Many of us struggle with crippling depression and a lot of trauma in our lives. But usually, it tends to lead to a greater appreciation for the suffering of others and more empathy. Sadly, you are so wrapped up in yourself that you are completely devoid of compassion for your best friend. I am just aghast that you are so devoid of basic decency. It doesn’t even matter what his motives are and it is repugnant that you are waffling on that it wasn’t just you. You trifling snake! You had a choice! You seem to think the fact you turned him down when he first made a drunken pass at you that this somehow is a mitigating factor. It’s actually even worse that you subsequently went after him. When I was really skint, I had a choice not to steal from friends, even though they had their purses full of cash in easy reach. That’s what you do, you don’t steal from friends and you don’t fuck their partners. As for mentioning that your father had an affair and thereby trying to manipulate the thread to insinuate that people have affairs because they are unhappy is really manipulative. People have affairs for many reasons. Sometimes because they are selfish and feel their emotions and needs override that of others, especially the innocent other party. Your poor friend to have a cheating husband and worse a disgustingly treacherous friend. I feel lucky that none of my partners cheated on me but even more blessed to not have such a shitty friend!

I personally don't have any respect for a woman who will willingly put her own needs ahead of some man's wife and children.I find the idea abhorrent.How desperate can a person be for "love and happiness" to do this..it's effectively snatching happiness from another family..it's just so wrong..and it's just so selfish to want to put your own happiness ahead of theirs esp when it just leads to heartache for everyone involved.

Lyin, I don't distance myself because I work closely with both people. I choose two-faced over an atmosphere at work.

Kindy, I think you're being extremely naïve. I don't know any woman that wouldn't put the needs and wants of her children, for example, above the needs and wants of anybody else's. Why would you think that a woman who enters into this kind of situation even has her affair partner's wife and children in mind at all? That's the point, she isn't thinking of them anymore than her affair partner is thinking of his own wife and children.

You're placing ALL the responsibility here on the OW and that's misplaced. Is she culpable? Yes, she's being complicit in a relationship with a man who is already married but talking of 'snatching happiness from another family' is just gratuitous nonsense because an OW can only do this when a man is willing to put his family's happiness at risk. That's on him.

Affairs are never a good thing, they mostly cause pain to all involved whether directly or indirectly, but please, don't make women the custodians and guardians of a married man's wife and children.

Temptress..I agree with you.My partner and I have had some very bad times but I never cheated on him and to my knowledge he's never cheated on me..A couple of my friends partners gave me the "Look".On one occasion a married man "hinted" about how unhappy he was in his marriage but I lve just ignored them.There are some of us who just ignore these guys you know..we don't all take them up on their "offers" I could never do that to any of my friends.Its just so wrong.I love my friends and I am mature enough to know that all relationships have good and bad times.Why would I jump in to bed with a friend's partner just because their going through their bad time.Its just so wrong.I care for my friends so I just wouldn't do it.If someone is genuinely not happy in their marriage they should seek counselling or leave.How is cheating going to improve the situation?

Yes Rainy and on facebook. You can be civil and professional at work without laughing at jokes or engaging in chat. Two-faced is right. You really have no moral high-ground there.

Lying i was about to post similar myself about kind's post. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm not placing all the responsibility on the OW.Im replying to the post.The OW is the one who made the post and I'm just saying how I feel.If the married guy comes on and states his case then equally I would reply to what he has to say

But yes you're right..At the end of the day their both equally responsible for their actions.But she willingly went with a married man so what did she think was going to happen? She's come on now posting about it, I dont get it, I don't know whether she's complaining or is it she's saying how unhappy she now feels about it or she want people to sympathise.to share her experience of it...for what tho?

Kindy yes but you are placing the blame on OW regardless. There's not an OW in the world who can disrespect a man's wife and children UNLESS he makes that possible. Not one.

Women are NOT the custodians of other women's husbands.

And there are differing standards also. Rainy has posted that she will engage with an ex affair-couple yet despises them. My standards wouldn't permit me to do that. I'd either accept that they were now a couple and treat them accordingly - or I wouldn't forgive what they'd done and wouldn't allow them into my circle.

Personally, I would treat them as fallible human beings which we all are and look at how they conducted themselves in extricating themselves from their marriages, ie. paying maintenance, not bad-mouthing their ex-partners and generally not placing blame on them. Accepting that they did the wrong thing is a huge and irrevocable part of that.

Kindy, having been an OW myself I have a different filter somewhat. I read OP's posts as her wanting other OW to come on and share their experiences, a validation for her. Her thread title says 'she's not proud of it' and then asks 'anyone else been in this situation?'.

I will not indulge that. I won't engage in that kind of discussion because it's hugely hurtful and kind of irrelevant what somebody else's affair was like. My stance on it is 'end it'. Always. If somebody posts that they're thinking about having an affair or can feel themselves drifting in then I'll post my experience of how they're entering a world of pain. It's never positive.

Okay.I get it.This is a post for OW to share their experiences.Well I'm out.

Lyin, they are not in a relationship together, they are two separate people who are both in relationships that started as affairs. It is quite difficult because we are a small team and they are more senior than me. I am certainly two faced with them and still consider myself morally superior even if you disagree. Liking a pic of their kids because it'd look odd if I didn't isn't quite as bad as fucking a married man and helping to destroy a family imo.

Rainy if you have read these types of threads before you will have seen posts from betrayed partners who say that not only do they have to content with the betrayal, they also have to contend with the acceptance of the affair from other people.

Like I said, we all have standards and we operate by 'degrees'. I wouldn't do what you're doing but by the same token, you wouldn't do what I did.

Lyin, Yes, I am a betrayed spouse and it is hard seeing your ex and his ow being accepted by people, and to read comments like yours earlier, where you said affairs are more accepted in rl than on mn, which is what I came on to respond to.

Because now I know, and am comforted by the thought, that people aren't necessarily accepting them, they are often just rubbing along with the shitbags for an easier life.

Just wanted to add that my reaction to this thread is really down to OP’s posts. There is no special bias for me to blame the OW in general. Had this been about a man whose wife she didn’t know, I would regard them both equally responsible and felt there was no special onus on the OW towards the partner of the man she cheated with. The guy if anything should be the one to safeguard his relationship and home life. I am not a pearl clutching prude who would want to brand the OW with a scarlet letter. I’m just disgusted by the betrayal of a friend who trusted the OP around her partner and family and seemingly shared her relationship issues with this viper. The absence of genuine empathy for her friend is shitty.

I'm sorry if my posting that upset you, Rainy. I think that people are just generally quite self-absorbed in their own shit and don't really worry or concern themselves about other people's stuff going on - unless it impacts them.

Relationships board is a skew really because there are mostly women posting on it and mostly failed relationships being posted about here.

I'm so heartened to hear that affairs are not generally accepted, even if people appear to go along with it for a quiet life.

Temptress, I couldn't agree more. OP's conduct with her 'friend' is disgraceful and is an added level of betrayal that OP could end right now if she wanted to.

Springy I think they are accepted sometimes by people though, in the case of abuse you hope they find a way out or at least some solace. Sorry but that's the truth.

I'm so heartened to hear that affairs are not generally accepted, even if people appear to go along with it for a quiet life

I think that a lot of people consider couples who started as an affair to be sort of tainted. They want to keep them at arms length, almost like infidelity is a contagious illness that one never truly recovers from.

I've had the odd experience of being in a group where some people know that a certain couple started as an affair, and others didn't, and watched the people who knew quietly make sure that every one finds out. They stay polite to the couple's faces, but keep them at arms length and make sure that others are warned to keep them at arms length too. I think people stay polite because they work together, or their kids are on a team together, or whatever. But everyone knows, most people want to keep away from them.

I've also listen to my DH and a couple of his closest friends discuss their other friends affairs and remarriages. I've listen to them compare a friend's first wife to his new partner (former OW), judging whether he had traded up or down. Oddly, often feeling like the man traded down because the first wife was really lovely, and the new one is perhaps younger, but often just not a nice person.

I've heard men talk about how badly another man treated his wife. I'm an American married to Brit. We live in the states and have many British friends. The fall out from affairs when a British couple have immigrated for the man's job is drastic. Even men who don't seem particularly moral think it's truly horrible to make your wife move to a new county, then shag someone else. It's really not just women on the Mumsnet Relationship board that people think that affairs are horrible.