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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm the other woman, not proud of it, confused - anyone been in this situation?

355 replies

MrsMiss · 26/10/2017 21:47

I realise this is going to prompt an onslaught of criticism, fair enough. I just wondered there are people who could help me as I can't talk in real life.

I'm not excusing my behaviour but context: I had previously only had two relationships - my 'first love' at college, and my husband of 11 years. We have 4 dc. Our relationship was on the surface fine in the early days, but as we had children, and I know people will think 'how could you not know' - his behaviours became more and more difficult to live with, and we embarked on marriage counselling, and eventually dh was diagnosed with Asperger's. We both tried to deal with this as best we could, but after a further year and a half of counselling and best efforts, we both mutually agreed to separate.

I was diagnosed with clinical depression, and felt like my life was not worth living. Single parent, in 40s, part-time work, scraping money together, dealing with loss and disappointment of marriage and the impact of living with emotionally unavailable man who always seemed so harsh/manipulative but also vulnerable, making it hard for me to see the wood for the trees.

I became close friends with a couple, our kids get on well, and we spent time together over the next year or so. Fast forward to a party earlier this year, the man in this couple gets v. drunk and makes a pass at me. I think I'm being really careful to avoid hurting his feelings, and my good friend his wife, and stop things in their tracks. However, I wasn't prepared for how it made me feel. To him it was probably just a drunken fumble. To me, it was highly significant - one of the few times in my life that someone has shown me such attention. He contacted me afterwards and we 'talked', discussing the fact that neither of us 'did this kind of thing' and that it was no big deal, a mistake, hadn't gone too far, no harm done. But then over a period of weeks and months our friendship has gradually developed. To begin with it seemed he was stuck in an unhappy relationship and spending a very brief time talking to me helped him, and me, to feel less lonely. However, now I feel like it is me who has fallen deeply in love with this person, and he is either (a) regretting his actions and looking for a 'safe' exit strategy, (b) in denial and scared about the strength of his initial feelings, worried about everyone else's reaction if it was discovered etc or (c) just chaotically enjoying the rare moments we do get to spend time together, but feeling guilty otherwise. I've obviously tried to talk about it but it never really goes anywhere. He knew before we got together that I was depressed. He knows I find it tough being on my own with the kids, but I genuinely believe he thinks I can help him and he can help me. I swing between being horrified at myself for putting myself in this situation - I know how low my behaviour is, I know what is at stake, I know I can't have much self-respect if I let him basically take what he wants when he wants. But, I do feel so much better for having a connection with someone for the first time in my adult life. I obviously thought I had it with my stb ex dh but was bewildered by his condition, hoodwinked by his manipulation and brought down by the endless negativity and anxiety that our relationship brought to bear on me. Part of me thinks 'why shouldn't I?' but then I remember that I'm not even happy as everything is on his terms. I think I know what people are going to say, and honestly I will read your comments and will think carefully. I know it will be too painful for some people to try to imagine from my perspective, but if anyone has experiences to share that might help me, I would be grateful. Thank you.

OP posts:
willothewisp17 · 28/10/2017 11:07

don't know what you expected from posting this thread op, but as someone previously said, this is just a taste of what's to come when it all comes out. there will be a very very low opinion of you in your community, people will steer clear, who would want you near their husband?

who's gaining anything from this in the long run??
not you, your life will upside down by the time this is finished.
your poor 'friend' will be destroyed.
all the kids involved!! isn't that enough incentive to stop?

I can't say I know how you're feeling because I've never been in your situation, and although above you mentioned that this could be anyone, it would never be me, it would never be a lot of women doing this to someone else's family. it takes a special type of arsehole to do this!

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/10/2017 11:33

revengeongc I totally hear you with this one Flowers

willothewisp I am so sorry your mum went through this. It's stories like this that make me determined to rebuild my life, live well and be happy. Your mum lost a very flawed man, it's so sad that she couldn't find happiness later in life with somebody she deserved. Your father is a case in point of how these situations normally end up. I saw my ex for the first time in some months this week. He is a different person, not in a good way. He is a walking symbol of the pain he has caused everybody else. Just awful. Flowers for you.

Read all of this OP and LISTEN.

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/10/2017 11:36

My post above, I accidentally tagged wrong poster...should have been Icequeen01

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 28/10/2017 13:02

OP you are focusing heavily on the fact that you didn’t fall straight into bed with him after the first drunken fumble because (I assume) it reinforces your image of yourself as a “good” person. But the fact is that at some stage you gave yourself permission to go ahead and betray your friend, to engage with her husband in a relationship outside his marriage, to be cruel and deceitful, to jeopardise the happiness of her children and yours. When was that and how did you justify it to yourself? How did you make that mental leap? I think you need to tease these things out for your own peace of mind if nothing else.

Belleoftheball8 · 28/10/2017 13:20

All I see after 11 pages of subsequent posts from op is her feeling sorry and it’s all her and how hard her life is.Someone further thread meantioned she came across narcissistic and I have to say I agree especially minisiming of her role impact on everyone when it comes to light and going as far to say anyone will cheat. There is no justification for screwing other your best friend by sleeping with her husband there just isn’t. Her husband might be a serial cheat but god your suppose to be her friend! What do you think your poor dc will think when people are nasty about their mother because she was screwing their friends dad? What about the impact of your friends dc? You lack compassion and empathy towards your friend and her family or even your own family. It is not your friends fault you were in an unhappy marriage previously. It doesn’t give you license to go and be a part of exploding her marriage either. You are a disgrace and quite frankly If my friend had been sleeping with my dh I would knock her block off. I’ve been cheated on whilst I had a baby with my ex and dumped her. I have never been so depression in my life, I lost so much weight I weighed 7 stone it was one of the darkest times in my life! You actions as an adult have consequences you need to hold your hands up and own it not give excuses like you have been.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 28/10/2017 13:30

OP, you have to end this thing, you really do. You know it and the fact that the wife is one of your friends makes it worse. You need to end that friendship too and, if she gets wind of this she'll do it for you.

This is a useful forum to be on if you're looking at how to get out of situations like this but bear in mind that there are a lot of hurt and betrayed women here who will post on your thread also and they won't always show restraint. You've had some good advice here if not sympathy because you don't seem serious about ending the relationship with this married man. There is no other option really; end it or you really will be alone even in the relationship.

Take on board what some of the good advice has been and ignore the posters who've just come on to lash out. Their posts have mostly been deleted anyway. Ignore their continued bile.

My advice is end this and give yourself a year of just focusing on you, your children and healing from this relationship. If you're wise, you'll use the pain to prevent you from ever finding yourself in this situation again, that's what keeps me from it. Do it and repair. There are whole other relationships out there for you; just not this one.

jeaux90 · 28/10/2017 15:58

OP I have been in a place in my life where any attention might have felt like good attention. But it isn't.

I think you need to take a good look at what's going on with you, your loneliness and your low expectations of relationships.

As a single mum I remember the hard lonely days, I remember how when I was in an abusive relationship how I could have been tempted by an affair to escape my reality.

I think you need to stop the drama and take look at you, what examples you want to set for your kids because this situation is going to implode at some point unless you take the right decisions now.

The right answer here is to stop. Get yourself into some counselling and focus on your kids and your job, your family and try and work out why your self esteem is so low you want to take the scraps of the dysfunctional relationship with your friends' husband.

I hope you get through this a better and stronger person

revengeongc · 28/10/2017 16:31

"Take on board what some of the good advice has been and ignore the posters who've just come on to lash out. Their posts have mostly been deleted anyway. Ignore their continued bile."

Yes, ignore those women who've suffered at the hands of women exactly like the OP. How dare they tell you what suffering you're causing.

Everyone who has commented with sympathy and 'good advice' to the OP are being completely fooled by someone who is quite clearly a raging narcissist. This is what narcs do. Don't waste your time. The 'betrayed women' like me KNOW what these women are like and see straight through their 'poor me' bullshit.

DownbutnotfullyOut · 28/10/2017 16:34

The words of a psychiatrist "Anyone who is capable of living this kind of double life for more than a few days is deeply, deeply disordered."

If you are talking about having a whole separate family with two sets of kids and pretending to both sides you are single, I'd accept this.

If you are just talking about having an affair, it's plainly nonsense. If it makes you feel better to think your ex husband was "deeply deeply" disordered then that fine - but its silly to pretend having an illicit relationship for more than a few days is a sign of a disorder.

Scale it down a bit and you could be talking about milions of relationships where there is a bit of "overlap" - one relationship is breaking down and both parties know it and another is just beginning. Still cheating and in many cases more than a few days - but the idea this is a sign of mental disorder is crackers.

I'd be v. suspect about a psychiatrist who maintained such a thing. Sounds far more like a psychologist's language anyway.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 28/10/2017 16:37

revenge I'm not sympathetic to what the OP is doing. It is possible to give advice though without lashing out repeatedly which is what you're doing.

revengeongc · 28/10/2017 16:42

Whatever you think, Downbutnotfullyout.

If you think that being able to look your wife in the eye, day after day, kiss her and the kids goodbye before cycling down the hill to fuck your mistress, your son's best friend's mother, in her her family home, watch your wife go out with said 'friend' time after time, for months and months and months and not mentally break down over the strain, or even show any signs of guilt whatsover means you're not disordered, then I guess you're right.

If you're the 'friend', having your lover's wife over for coffee week in, week out, for months at a time, discuss your marriages over drinks, have your lover's son over for sleepovers and still be able to look your friend in the eye with absolutely no withdrawing from the friendship at all means you're not disordered, then so be it.

Fuck it. I keep being drawn back into this thread and it's doing me no good at all. Not least because of all the people who haven't been through the devastation that this type of affair causes keep telling me I'm a terrible person. Hugs to all of you who've been through it and the rest of you, you have no idea.

Lazy2Hazy · 28/10/2017 16:42

Oh give over. You don’t want help Confused

revengeongc · 28/10/2017 16:44

Same goes for you, LyingWitch. Thanks a bunch.

sofato5miles · 28/10/2017 16:55

revenge I am sorry that you have struggled but i also don't think your exDH was disordered. It's a common scenario and the boundaries just sound fucked. I know 3 couple that this has happened to and only one did the original DW utterly lose her shit and divorce him. The other two marriages survived, in my mind quite weirdly. However, marriages are not just based on fidelity.

I also think, realistically, most of us have been cheated on at some point. I kind of expect my DH to have some kind of affair over the course of our marriage, and I'd rather not know as i love my family and don't want to break it up. I certainly have felt strong attractions to others but, luckily, opportunities have never come up.

revengeongc · 28/10/2017 16:59

Whatever. I'm out.

justabout2016 · 28/10/2017 17:08

@revengeongc

I don’t think the op said there was no guilt - I think there is a lot. She knows. Whether she’s acting upon it is debatable. She’s a human being who has done wrong - I have, we all have from time to time. We can never know how much our actions impact on others - we may think it wasn’t that bad, whatever we did - there may be someone else who really suffered as a result of those actions.

I too have been cheated on. It hurts.

I am sorry this happened to you. Sounds absolutely horrendous. I really hope things improve for you.

jeaux90 · 28/10/2017 17:17

Revenge it's really not good to label people narcissists from their posts. The behaviour you describe is more sociopathic actually but I guess that you are in a really bad place and lashing out. I'm sorry about your situation.

willothewisp17 · 28/10/2017 18:05

revenge haven't been through anything like what you have, but I agree with every single thing you are saying about the op, a disguising narcissist who is more than likely thriving from all the comments on this thread!

hope you are in a better place soon revenge as this whole awful thread has clearly got to you** Flowers

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 28/10/2017 19:15

The way I see it is that people who have affairs are selfish (I know this to be so because I was). At the same time, they're wrapped up in their own little bubbles and oblivious or careless of other people's feelings, even the risk of hurting those people. Nothing that anybody can say to them will stop them.

I don't know if OW/OM are sociopaths, narcissists or any other name that people like to label them but I do know that if we think that these are these things then the very worst thing we can do (if we've been hurt by affairs) is engage. From my own viewpoint I believe that people who are affairs are self-absorbed and desperate to validate what their doing. Name-calling isn't going to hurt them it will just feed them drama and revenge had that right further up the thread, in my opinion.

If I were an OW now, that last thing I would do is start a thread or post on one because even though I would be selfish and self-absorbed, I wouldn't want to contribute to the pain of people here. Assuming that the OM's wife was unaware, I'd rationalise that to myself but, actually posting about my affair here... no, I wouldn't do that.

I question the reasoning of ANY OW starting a thread here. Without exception I believe that they just want to talk about their affair because they can't in real life, it's taboo. This isn't the place for academic discussion really because there are real people who have been or are currently caught up in this in their real lives. So, it's questionable why OW feel able to pop up on this board. But they do. Very rarely they want to stop the affair, whatever they say. It's not a difficult thing mechanically to do because you just stop, but emotionally they don't want to and that's the crux of it.

If I were currently going through what some posters clearly are, I'd steer so far away from these threads because the OW wouldn't be listening and would just be wallowing in the drama. I believe that about the OW here on this thread also. I don't agree with the name-calling, that's not ok but imagine how defeated they'd be if their threads were just ignored? They'd actually understand and get the full wait of public censure without a word being said to them.

I really am sorry for the posters going through this situation themselves, it's horrendous.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 28/10/2017 19:16

weight of public censure

CoyoteCafe · 28/10/2017 19:31

It's not a difficult thing mechanically to do because you just stop, but emotionally they don't want to and that's the crux of it.

Up thread, I stated that the this thread was giving the OPer a taste of what is in store for her if she keeps it up, and gets what she thinks she wants. What I meant was that in the moments when she is emotionally weak, she can think back on the harshest comments on this thread and remind herself that is what she will face on a daily bases everywhere she goes if she keeps going forward. She can use all that to help her be determined to actually build her life rather than wreck it. One of the reasons to quit is because of the amount of pain she will create in her own life.

I think that part of what happens in affairs is that people just ignore the real fallout that they are creating, and just live in the exciting moment they are currently having, like an addict.

We are all making choices every day. It can be very powerful to remind ourselves of that. When we realize that our choices aren't working for us, we can make a different choice.

springydaffs · 28/10/2017 19:32

Revenge I feel for you Flowers

Leave this thread that is stirring up the trauma again. You need to heal, there's a fine line between productively venting one's spleen and inviting re-trauma. Your understandable pain is palpable. You deserve a safe place to heal and that place isn't here Flowers

You must stop justifying yourself op. What you want and need isn't here. Just post you are sorry for the pain you have caused - not least to posters on this thread - and are causing. Whatever the reasons are for this vast mistake you need to process this away from those whose lives have been destroyed by the very thing you are currently doing.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 28/10/2017 19:40

Coyote, I really don't think that will make a whit of difference to the OP or any other OW/OM. Posters don't just happen upon the relationships board, they purposely find it and purposely write a thread on it. They KNOW what the perception is of affairs in respect of people who are caught up in them. They still choose to post on this board knowing that they will upset posters and cause them anguish.

Arguably, in real life, affairs are more tolerated because people do just 'get on with it' and the fallout isn't so visible. MN is a concentration of people (on this board) who are struggling with the aftermath so it's different.

I don't think that OW (or OM but they rarely post) ever take the points on board but they DO revel in talking about their affair in any way that they can and posters here are giving them that platform - in great detail and, even if I have some sympathy for OW who are trying to get out - I don't read that in the OP here.

TheFormidableMrsC · 28/10/2017 20:13

I agree with Lying that actually ignoring this shit really is the best way. It works even better IRL but it's taken me a long time to realise that. However, I STILL bite when I read these threads because it is something I feel so strongly about and live in hope that any one of these OW will realise what they are letting themselves in for. I am deluded in that respect. That has been proved here today hasn't it?

Springy hope you're well lovely x

RainyApril · 28/10/2017 20:16

I don't think affairs are more tolerated in rl, people are just more honest on an anonymous forum.

I work with two people who are in relationships that started as affairs. You should hear the shit they spout. I listen to their shit, laugh at their jokes, ask about their weekend and like their stuff on fb. You'd never know what I really think about them.

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