Son or boyfriend? Did I over react?

[Anonaninanan]

My partner and i have been together for 3 years and have 2 children.

I also have older children.

I should maybe start by saying that my ex was very abusive towards me and has failed to be any sort of a father, also my family is just crap, so my son has had nobody but me there for for him, which has probably clouded my view.

My partner is a great guy, was there for the kids and me, we had ups and downs but were generally ok.

Sadly I had to ask him to leave over an incident and a few people seem to think I'm over reacting.

My son (16) was being a bit lazy, typical teen stuff really. I was telling him to do something, he huffed and puffed, I told him off, he huffed some more. Then my partner came up to him and screamed in his face. Right in his face. He swore and shouted "dont fucking speak to your mum like that, that's out of order, you better start to show her some fucking respect, if you don't start to change your attention, then im gonna come down so fucking hard, you ain't gonna know what's hit you". I was sitting there in shock. My partner walked off to clam down, my son collapsed into tears and I knew then that my life was about to change.

I asked my partner to apologise to my son, which he eventually did with a shrug and a 'sorry' he then shouted at me asking why I was in his face when I had just walked into the room.

I spoke to my son who was crushed. He said he didn't feel comfortable around my partner after that and had lost all respect for him. I asked my partner to leave.

My son did come later and tell me to think of everyone else and that it didn't matter as it was only him which broke my heart even more.

We got things sorted and he left a couple of days later, he moved with family a significant distance away.

Now I'm stuck. I still love him. But I obviously love my son more.

I want to be with him. I can't see how after what happened.

I can't see a way forward out of this whole mess.

Did I over react?

Where can we go from here?

If a poster came on and said their dp had screamed and sworn at them in a threatening manner an inch from their face it would be unanimous ltb, no-one would suggest she deserved it no matter what she had done so why should a child have to accept it.

I can't accept this reasoning. I do all sorts of things with my children that would be unacceptable for me to do to my husband.

-interrupt whatever he's doing and tell him to put food away that he's left on the counter
-put a timer outside of the bathroom so he knows when his 8 minutes are up
-reduce his pocket money for bad behaviour
-interrogate him about where he's going, with whom, and when he'll be back

Teenagers are not equals. We strive mightily to speak to them with respect at all times, but with all the will in the world, we will all fail at some point.

The shouting was outrageous and wrong, but it's the moving far away that is the real clincher.

He needs emotional support? Oh, please! He's a grown up! (And where are you getting your emotional support from, Anon? Oh, and the emotional "energy" needed to give emotional support to four children.)

He would do counselling if he could move back in? Sounds pretty manipulative to me. He's trying to make you take the blame. He can't fix it, because you won't let him move back in, so it must be your fault.

In fact, from your posts, it sounds like he could move in temporarily with friends. If he lived closer, he could continue to provide childcare for the little ones, and could try to build bridges with your DS. But he doesn't want to.

He could fix this, he just doesn't want to.

MuseumOfCurry Can you genuinely not see the difference between reasonable discipline methods and what the dp did?

It’s not because I don’t agree that I think some posters are horrendous.

It’s because there have been a couple of people who have repeatedly and relentlessly posted a whole load of nasty, accusatory and bullying stuff in addition to giving quite a lot of information about what kind of human (and parent) they are and having had a glimpse of that I conclude that they are quite simply just horrendous people...

...in your opinion. You missed a bit.

Quite honestly anyone that believes a full grown man (and father) squaring up to a 16 year old (never mind the child’s history of abuse) is a valid and effective parenting approach is living in a completely different world to me... and it is not a world which a. Has a proven track record or b. I would want to inhabit...

Nope, i’m fairly confident that there is a whole weight of scientific research and general human knowledge to support an objective judgement of horrendousness...

I can’t help wondering whether some of these responses would have been different if the OP’s teenager was a girl.

OP. As far as I can see you were handling the cheeky comment from your DS by yourself. You didn’t need or ask for any assistance from your BF. He just decided to get involved and scream in your son’s face. Unacceptable. It’s not his place to discipline your son. He’s not a longstanding step dad with years of bringing up your DS. Secondly I doubt that you needed help in dealing with your son, who you know very well and have a close and loving relationship with.

Exactly what message was your boyfriend trying to give? That the little woman cannot deal with her own child and needs a big, strong man to swoop in and rescue her. Bollocks to that. The OP was dealing with the situation. Even if she hadn’t have been dealing with it he didn’t need to shout in her son’s face. The boyfriend obviously felt that his brand of “discipline” was more suitable to the situation and he decided to wade in to show what a big man he is.

Offred bit uncalled for. People are entitled to their opinions. It's not good guys versus bad guys.

"My son ... was only out of work/education for a few days before this happened."

I think the PP who said this is all about him being "the man of the house" was spot on. While your son was still in education, your bf could still see him as a child. Now hes left, suddenly he was faced with the prospect of a rival adult male being in the house all day, and he raged to try and stay The Big Boss, probably also not helped by the fact that SAHP is not seen as a traditional "manly" role.

Your telling him that his behaviour was actually not acceptable (and it wasnt) has further cemented the fact that he is not in fact The Big Boss and he cant cope with that. so reacted by opting out completely and going as far away as he could.

Museum
Funnily enough none of those fairly normal examples of parenting you posted was

• Stand nose to nose with them and scream and swear at them.

I take it you dont do that to either your kids or dh.

Well TBH it actually is. Authoritarian parenting, which is what some on here seem to advocate, is known to damage children.

Headofthehive55, if you think it's a big deal,fine,your house,your rules.
We get the odd bit of mild attitude from our teen,about par with what his parents produce on a bad day,other than that he is a good,kind,hardworking boy so for us a bit of attitude is no big deal - just part of being human,and not perfect.
But - he saves it for us,no probs at school so why assume he'd take it to work?
The odd eye roll at home doesn't automatically translate to mass antisocial behaviour out of the home.

You did the right thing OP.
It is your partner who has complicated this situation by moving away that far and not showing any willingness to address the situation or taking responsibility for his actions.

You did the right thing OP for 2 reasons

1. You have already been in an abusive relationship and there is nothing worse than seeing this type of behaviour acted out in front of you directly or indirectly.
2. You did the right thing thing for your son who is just a normal teenager and your exP's reaction was totally out of proportion to the situation.

IME I had a similar scenario and I ended the relationship because he was a wake up call for me that I was minimising the man's behaviour until I saw him screaming at my son and it triggered some really bad anxiety regarding past domestic violence.

Headofthehive55, if you think it's a big deal,fine,your house,your rules.
We get the odd bit of mild attitude from our teen,about par with what his parents produce on a bad day,other than that he is a good,kind,hardworking boy so for us a bit of attitude is no big deal - just part of being human,and not perfect.I can't think of a situation where swearing and intimidating someone isn't several degrees worse than attitude.It would be far,far less acceptable at work too,if that's your argument....
The odd eye roll at home doesn't automatically translate to mass antisocial behaviour out of the home.

This is Mn at its most absurd people blinded by fear that they cannot see the wood for the trees - fear of what though , themselves, men, relationships or being judged by other women because they have been lucky enough or brave enough to risk another go at finding happiness.

The DP is a sahd _ how does this equate to being the man of the house - men who need to be this for their ego would not look after their kids never mind someone else's as they would regard this as women's work

As for showing his true colours - surely if this was an abuser as so many of you say this would have happened way before now. He's been looking after two toddlers and never lost his patience - is this what you are saying op - sounds more like a saint to me - as for Ds I expect he has learnt many of the x!s behavioural traits including lack of respect for you Op _

I think you have been brainwashed by the MN consensus - selfish for getting involved in a realtionship again, even more selfish for going on to have two children in this relationship when you already had a child, your DP can parent his own kids but is only allowed to watch from the sidelines with your Ds regardless of how he feels you are being treated.
Yes he made a mistake in shouting so angrily at your son but some families do shout when they are angry _ for some reason it is more acceptable to withhold this anger which will come out somewhere - at least with shouting you see it for what it is rather than passive aggressive anger which is Quiet but far more destructive.

We are still learning about emotional abuse - losing your rag once is not emotional abuse _ there needs to be a pattern. In this day and age where women are giving out the message we don't need a man we can do it all by ourselves - who is really being selfish.

The op whether knowingly or not was in a situation where she had the opportunity to show her DS what a real relationship is like - where the husband and wife work as a team and support each other regardless of who does what role. They have to form a strong bond they are the backbone of the family unit. Without this there is no unit - the Ds has been given the message that if you are vulnerable your behaviour can be excused _ isn't this what most abusive men do when they turn victim and try and blame everyone else for their behaviour apart from taking responsibility.

As I said our sense of reality has become squewed - the op is in danger of repeating history and setting her Ds up to be abusive. Most men become abusive in the first place as they were probably the centre of their mothers world who did everything for them _ not teaching them how to be responsible for themselves - under a misguided lovE - they know no different they then expect this behaviour from girlfriends wife's. If their own DFs felt threatened by this as they were no longer their wives main attention this would have come out somewhere.

It is not about choosing one over the other it is about being altogether and knowing how we fit in to this unit. The 1950's man is right until we see this we will carry on with one dysfunctional generation after another.

greenberet 100% agree. Well said.

Such crap... yes losing your rag once can be EA... my xh was prevented from having contact with my DD pending SC assessment after he lost it with her once. It is recorded in her notes as EA. And he was shouting in her face, he wasn’t swearing or threatening her. Is just one punch not physical abuse?

It doesn’t just depend on it being a regular pattern it can also be a single extreme behaviour.

"Such crap... yes losing your rag once can be EA... my xh was prevented from having contact with my DD pending SC assessment after he lost it with her once. It is recorded in her notes as EA. And he was shouting in her face, he wasn’t swearing or threatening her."

Wow so your daughter now has no father because this one time he shouted at her?

There are some seriously fucked up women on here. Sadly seems to be the majority.

Greenberet i totally agree. Ive never been in an abusive relationship and would never stand for that shit. But this thread is absolutely mental. A good man (Op says so) does right by his 4 kids and is a stay at home dad raising 2 of his own and 2 others. Surly 16 year old is rude to his mum so man shouts at him. For this he is removed from his 2 children, and because he has no money as he is SAHD is forced to move far away from kids.

Its just one of the most disgusting and twisted threads ive seen on mn. I urge you to consider if genders were reversed. SAHM kicked out of family home and denied opportunity to see children because no money to stay near - all because she shouted at stepdaughter. Awful.

The op whether knowingly or not was in a situation where she had the opportunity to show her DS what a real relationship is like - where the husband and wife work as a team and support each other regardless of who does what role

She is also in a position to show that the only acceptable level of abusive behaviour is none. That is a lesson worth learning

greenberet you articulated that so well I agree with everything you said.

He has removed himself from his two children... he chose emotional support for him over emotionally supporting his dc...

And no, she doesn’t have ‘no father’. Contact was stopped for a month while assessments were done and a parenting course was suggested (though never attended!) before contact resumed and it is now less contact than before because she still has nightmares about ‘the big shout’ and hasn’t quite rebuilt trust, though he is trying to rebuild it.

My point was this was not just my reaction to the shouting in her face. My son videoed it and sent it to me to ask for help. CAMHS and SC treated it as EA, because it was EA, even though she has ASD and is difficult, even though it was just once etc because it was abusive....

There are women here who have a zero tolerance attitude to any domestic abuse. That's a good thing.

People minimising and excusing it are part of the problem.

And also the OP has been repeatedly clear that she is committed to supporting him financially till he gets on his feet... there is nothing at all on this thread that suggests he has been kicked out and forced out of his children’s lives. He was asked to leave after he crossed the line and has chosen to withdraw from his DC which TBH, given he was previously a SAHD does set off alarms. How many committed parents would move so far away from their children ‘for emotional support’ after a split? Never mind the fact he was up until that point a SAHP to two toddlers who will find his absences deeply confusing...

IMO (like others) his decision to move away ‘for emotional support’ is absolutely another sign that he is an emotionally abusive person, rather than a ‘good man’ who lost it and was EA to his DSS one time...