Meanwhile over on Gransnet....

[ChocolatePHD]

While bored earlier I popped over to gransnet to see what that's all about. Stumbled across the forums and noticed that a lot of the threads are about being estranged from their dc and slagging off the 'evil' children/ in laws who are keeping them from their grandchildren, and how heartbroken they are etc.

I found that v interesting considering how we here often discuss the other side of that- those of us who can't cope with our parents any longer or struggle with them, and either go NC or LC. And that never happens without good reason- it takes a lot for someone to get to that point in my experience.

It was kind of jarring but also interesting to read the gransnet side of things- but also frustrating as someone whose mother thinks of herself as a butter wouldn't melt type, but has actually caused a lot of damage.

Has anyone else read it/ had any thoughts on this?

My Mil can moan all she likes. My children hate her all by themselves. I didn't even have to influence them.

I fully expect my dear mother to be on there in a few years spouting all sorts and getting a lot of misplaced sympathy as her evil daughter won't let her into her life

Oh god, I am OBSESSED. They're all so delusional.

Oh I've seen it too. Lots of ego stroking and pathetically trembling lips, and not understanding whyyyyy.

I have no doubt some of them are genuinely not at fault, but you can spot the deluded ones a mile off

Yes, sometimes it's one party being difficult, sometimes the other, sometimes both.

And no-one ever thinks they could be the difficult one.

And just like here, the person posting is the person believed.

Is gransnet part of mumsnet or a stand alone forum?

pathetically trembling lips, and not understanding whyyyyyyyyy

You summed it up perfectly!

Well, if my MIL and her partner weren't already so paranoid about the internets, prepping for when the Russians take over, and thinking the BBC are on to them, they'd probably be over there too. I don't doubt there really are some situations with adult children who have mental health and substance abuse issues who have cut them off for tough love and no longer enabling their bs. But yeah, I suspect there are a lot of delusional old gals trying to dissociate from the horrible things they've done to their families as well. Knowing the hell we've been through, I think I'd find it hard to muster much sympathy and probably just feel pretty angry.

I find it interesting.

I think estrangement between parents and children has always been relatively common - but parents covered it up, or children went low contact only, because it was harder to move far away or get out of the community.

I've read some really interesting posts that say estrangement is more common now due to a "culture of entitlement" ("from schools", parenting obv not to blame!) that leads to children cutting their parents off for "not being perfect" etc.

How terrible it is that estrangement has happened when obviously the parents expected they'd always have a happy family life to sustain them in old age... and the very next post, there will be a description of how parents who sense estrangement may happen,again havearted to try not to argue" with their adult children, "have learned to bite their tongues"

As I say just really interesting.
I keep thinking, you expect(ed) long happy relationships with your DC into your old age, and yet you just recently have started to limit arguments, and control your tongue? So... You expected to behave with impunity and have only just noticed your DC may not put up with it... Ok... Makes sense!

Fwiw I'm not estranged from my mum, but her attitudes are similar and it's just baffling to me.

Is there a specific area of GN that these posts are concentrated?

In their Relationships forum. There are several threads.

Thank you!

soemtimes it is evil mil/mother.

sometimes it is evil dil/daughter/son

the thing is, if you are the interferring sort and see it as helping, then you are going to be perplexed as to why dc has cut you off when you only went round and ironed their underwear, and sorted out thier bank statements, and gave baby a bottle as they were obviously hungry and took the baby as the babies parents were obviously not holding it right..... etc, etc, etc... ) (or perhaps only see the dil as a breeding machine to provide you with grandchildren)

if you are the controlling sort/easily upset sort and do not like your mil/mother, you are going to take the hump at things that were genuinely meant well and could have been put right in a well working family.( for god's sake mother do not chat loudly when baby is just dropping off to sleep... apology from offender, no repeats, all sorted. )

Oh dear...
www.gransnet.com/forums/grandparenting/1241208-Mil-no-longer-allowed-to-see-son

It took 6 years, but I've finally decided that ds and I should go no contact with the ex in laws (or ds's bastard dad). I unlike my ex and his dysfunctional family have a good relationship with my parents.

I’m curious. Does anyone challenge them or is it a different culture?

I think there is a problem with daughters who expect mothers to be perfect when they are not perfect. Mothers expect daughters to be perfect and they are not perfect.
Whatever another person thinks of a certain individual that is their perception and may not be a universal viewpoint.
Some of the break ups will be caused by daughter some by mother. If you can accept that there a differences in all people life would be so much easier. You could hardly moan about a person's eye colour or hair colour so why does anyone criticise another person having a different viewpoint from you.
FWIW I am contemplating such a move myself because I come in for a lot of verbal abuse and that should not be acceptable from anyone.
I find it sad that it should come to this. Alternatively I have put in the effort and been the parent present and the outcome is verbal abuse.

Yes, I have looked at the forum from time to time, as I sometimes feel that as the mother of grown up DC, I am a bit betwixt and between in terms of MN and GN (but definitely prefer MN), too young for the Stannah lift, but well past the weaning and toddler tantrums, problems at the school gates etc.

I find GN interesting but much slower moving than MN. It's a different demographic, which is reflected in the problems and responses.

There are a few posters who keep popping up on a regular basis, who clearly have issues with their DC, just as on here the DC have problems with their parents - the equivalent of the Stately Homes thread. I always feel, as I do on here, that I would like to know the other side of the story. You can't really know what is going on inside other people's families, just as you can't know what is going on in their marriages. Obviously, when giving advice, you have to assume that the poster is telling it as it is, and advise accordingly.

A lot of relationships appear to falter because of poor communication or because a new partner - either for DC or parents - alters the dynamic and causes tension.

There are also a lot of tales about DC who are greedy and grasping, take their DP for granted and have an eye on the main chance when it comes to inheritance. One point which keeps coming up is whether or not an estranged adult DC should inherit anything at all.

I don't have any answers but I do find it interesting to see another perspective. With some of the GNs, I feel like shaking them and saying get a life, be there for your adult DC, but don't interfere. Likewise on here, some of the posters appear to be self indulgent and petty in relationships, and there are lots of power struggles going on between MILs and DILs in particular. A bit more tolerance and mutual respect with better communication would probably help in a lot of the scenarios.

All part of Life's rich tapestry, I suppose! And definitely worth a read just to see another viewpoint (even if you don't agree with it!).

"I’m curious. Does anyone challenge them or is it a different culture?"

No, it's pretty much the same culture as here on that one. You believe the OP.

I'm estranged from my mum because she emotionally abused my brother and me for years. Not t because she's interfering or annoying.

If you ask her she will tell you she did the best she could and I'm ungrateful and grasping.

Just wondering-at what age do women switch from being absolutely in the right at all times about everything to being absolutely in the wrong at all times about everything? Is it on a particular birthday, or does it happen gradually? I am particularly interested in the
moment when women are expected to stop having emotions, opinions and feelings. Or at least, at what age should women stop expecting to have their emotions, opinions and feelings taken into consideration?

What are you getting at Bertrand? Are you saying we should excuse abusive behaviour from parents and consider their emotions and feelings instead?!

I'd argue that posters on MN are robustly challenged, called on evidence and certainly not given unconditional sympathy, there isn't much aww Hun, hugz going on here! You need a pretty hard hat to post in AIBU in particular.

This blogger talks about the differences between adult child forums and alienated parent forums, one f the differences being evidence based justification for action, challenge and support based on what to do rather than unconditional sympathy and validation. Some very interesting articles.

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html