Meanwhile over on Gransnet....

[ChocolatePHD]

While bored earlier I popped over to gransnet to see what that's all about. Stumbled across the forums and noticed that a lot of the threads are about being estranged from their dc and slagging off the 'evil' children/ in laws who are keeping them from their grandchildren, and how heartbroken they are etc.

I found that v interesting considering how we here often discuss the other side of that- those of us who can't cope with our parents any longer or struggle with them, and either go NC or LC. And that never happens without good reason- it takes a lot for someone to get to that point in my experience.

It was kind of jarring but also interesting to read the gransnet side of things- but also frustrating as someone whose mother thinks of herself as a butter wouldn't melt type, but has actually caused a lot of damage.

Has anyone else read it/ had any thoughts on this?

Namethecat that's pretty much what I think.

Obviously there are some people who go NC with their parents for good reasons, and some for bad reasons. There are plenty of parents who are unfairly treated by their adult children.

But if my kids go NC when they are adults then I will absolutely feel that I'm to blame - at least partly. Because I brought them up. It's my job to be kind to them, and also my job to bring them up to be kind, empathic, fair-minded people. If my kids go NC with me then I will have failed to do this, or else have behaved badly towards them (or possibly both!)

I also think that if you're bringing up a small child then you have an astonishing amount of power over them. The potential for abuse and damage - overt or otherwise - is huge. The kid at that point just does not have the same power.

These things make me more likely to question the parent's POV when an adult child goes NC.

bingo yes, I can see that, and you make good points. I suppose my point is more about the DIL/MIL dynamic, rather than the AC/parent dynamic. Quite often the latter must be as you say - the result of failures in upbringing. (Although from what I've seen on MN from posters with adult/near adult children, there are still often other factors, such as the influence of abusive partners, MH issues, etc.)

The DIL/MIL examples seem to be less like that, e.g. the example upthread, where basically Granny steps out of line on a subject that's nothing to do with the children, and the DIL retaliates by keeping the dgc she loves away from her.

Sometimes it is the GPs, sometimes it is the parents and sometimes it is a bit of both. I have seen both sides in real life be unreasonable in families. GPs who are interfering and demanding, parents who expect GPS to provide lots of free childcare and run around after them, and cut them off if they ever once say no.
And parents and GPs who are both difficult. Unless I know the family well, or it is action that is obviously way out of order, then I always think there are two sides to every story.

So part of my family is NC with me. That is because I reported them to the police. Not the reason they tell everyone else though.

There is a saying on MN, "you don't have a MiL problem, you have a DH problem". I think that if that's all that is going on, the grandmother is that case doesn't have a DiL problem, she has a DS problem.

"you don't have a MiL problem, you have a DH problem"

Quite often, this seems to mean that the DH concerned is not absolutely 100% with his wife whatever she says or does.........

I do wonder what is going to happen when a lot of the "Dh has to put me first" DiL become MiL themselves.

brasty That must have been pretty awful.

Quite often it is because the MiL and DiL are expected to deal with all things children and family related. Wifework. With the DS/DH saying whatever to whoever for his own easy life.

Where the DS has an equal relationship with his children and a good relationship with his wife and family, it's not a problem.

My ex is completely NC with his family. I am in contact with certain members of his family but I basically have to keep it quiet.

I can definitely see my MIL posting on GN. I wouldn't blame her. Do I think she's got no responsibility for the estrangement? No, of course she has some. But the estrangement came down to several factors. As always, it's not a single thing that causes it:

• difficult MIL - anxious, feels that her DS doesn't like or respect her, easily slighted, tends to call in the flying monkeys, uses shame to get people to do her bidding
• distant FIL with anger issues - doesn't say sorry, will NOT be told what to do
• My ex who is a combination of these - massively sensitive to perceived slights; stubborn; ruminates on slights and digs his heels in

All together they are a toxic combination and looking back it's not surprising that the family has been fractured by estrangement. All three of them would tell a different story of what happened, and blame each other.

Ultimately though, I can see where my ex was coming from - his parents literally taught him to take offence easily - that's what they do as a family. And then, when he took offence to them, they are offended that he took offence... and won't say sorry properly, just try to shame and guilt him into talking to them... it's exhausting but ultimately the GPs (my ILs) were the ones who set the tone for it all, in the family of origin. They themselves went NC with other family members when my ex was a child...

I've been a member of Gransnet for years although I'm in my 20s.
I've also posted on the estrangement thread several times.

One poster there is vicious, racist and so self obsessed it's delusional.

She is cut off from her son (whom she rarely mentions) and her DD and GC.

All she focuses on is that her SIL is a gypsy and that she stole her GD surname.

Not the fact that he married her daughter and accepted her child and they all shared a family name...

Because I challenged that thinking I now get stalked around other threads.

If I post on a completely unrelated thread and she's around she will reply about how horrible and what a nasty I am.

Taylor I think I've seen that poster. Was she the one who went to court for access to her grandkids but the judge refused because she was so disrespectful to the SIL's heritage that it would be damaging to the children?

That's the one.

The absolute hatred she has for him can be felt through the phone.

The reality is that when he daughter married and moved out she got less attention.

She believes that she should be classed as a parent of her granddaughter because at one point she was pregnant with her daughter. And a girl has all of her eggs from birth. So she also carried her granddaughter. Therefore she is closer than stepdad.

Wow! There is another poster too who has a very public blog about being estranged from her grandkids complete with photos of them which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

My DP is NC with his parents, they were highly abusive and he spent all his teenage years in care. He tried to have his mother in his life as an adult but she hadn't changed. She has never met our children but I agreed to add her on facebook with the idea of letting her see pictures and build bridges but she would regularly tag loads of random people into my children's pictures against my requests. She also moved to a new area where nobody knew her past and would regularly post about being deprived of her grandkids to lots of sympathetic posts from her new friends so in the end I deleted her, it wasn't worth it and I already felt like I'd disrespected my DP's wishes a bit on trying to be nice to her. I can well imagine her on a forum like GN.

I actually reported photos that they were posting to the thread to GN.
Pictures with names, and further up the thread they were discussing locations!

GN said they didn't breach any guidelines. How disgusting is that?

I think it's lossy obvious they don't have the parents permission.

That's awful, and certainly not conducive to healing their relationships!

Shocking on so many levels

That seems to have gone very far beyond what is normal or, possibly, even safe for the children. Intergenerational conflict is one thing, but those examples take it many steps further. There isn't even the excuse of not having grown up with the Internet if you're older - not publicly broadcasting personal details about children is basic common sense.

I am no contact with my adult dd.
she has an ex husband who abused her for over 20 years, financially, physically and emotionally.
yet, the irony is that even when he brought such fear and distress into MY life, she turned against me, joining in with the "school ground bully".
it wasn't until police/deporting and protection for us was finally achieved that our relationship blossomed for a number of years.

then, what happened next was unbelieavable.
dd's "new" partner is exactly the same, dd has repeated her pattern of behaviour again.
so, was it her upbringing, or simply her character?
I wish I knew the answer.

heardittoday - I am in a very similar situation. The first time I thought it was the partner and family. When that abusive relationship broke down and a new partner found it was much the same except there does not seem to be any violence this time but it is still the partner's family who are more important and have to be visited on special days and our side not included or allowed to have the young family over. I wonder if I brought my kids up to be too soft? I thought I had instilled fair play into them but it is not working that way

I'm one who has a very toxic mother. I went NC 2 years ago. Wish I'd done it sooner. Got fed up with her manipulation setting me and siblings against each other. Her hate of women - every woman who comes on TV is ugly, fat (DM is not slim), a bitch, slut etc.Takes pleasure in putting down her daughters, interfering in relationships. She has a love/hate relationship with men. Constantly downing them (all men are pigs) yet panders to her youngest son completely (ignores my elder brother who unfortunately is so sad about this). My dad isn't perfect - but instead of dealing with his shit or leaving, she preferred to play stupid unkind passive aggressive 'games' with her children. My dad eventually left her, which galled her no end. But she should have left him the minute we grew up. He worked hard but checked out of the marriage, cheating etc. She's no "poor old lady". In her 70s and very glamorous. She's the exact type who would sit on Gransnet and moan about her children. I've never stopped my girls seeing her. She dotes on them but still prone to barbed comments, which they absolutely take either a pinch of salt and just laugh. She also dotes on DSis son. That's 3 grandchildren. But - she has 11 grandchildren in total, that's 9 left that she completely ignores. It's all a game to her. Of my friends I am by far not the only one who's gone through strife via mothers that appear to be jealous of their DDs and want to sabotage their lives and self-esteem, gloating when things go wrong. Whenever I see a thread with a parent bemoaning the fact their DD doesn't visit them, acting as if they're oh so reasonable, simply a poor mother cursed with an uncaring DD I'm immediately shouting in my mind "BUT, WHAT DID YOU DO?!

Just think though, one day you will be the Gran, we're not all going to end up with great SILs or DILs.

Wow ladies I'm absolutely astounded at the empathy shown just remember one day hopefully you will all be grandmothers and there are problems in lots of families. I have a daughter and two beautiful twin grandchildren but I'm not perfect and neither is she I think before jumping on the bandwagon to lambaste people we should remember there are two sides to every story.

There's a strange thread on GN about how they're sick and tired of hearing about HW. It made me recall the countless threads on MN where abused daughters were victim blamed by mothers. Incredibly sad that this attitude seems so ingrained in that generation.

And what do they mean by AC? Actual children?