Meanwhile over on Gransnet....

[ChocolatePHD]

While bored earlier I popped over to gransnet to see what that's all about. Stumbled across the forums and noticed that a lot of the threads are about being estranged from their dc and slagging off the 'evil' children/ in laws who are keeping them from their grandchildren, and how heartbroken they are etc.

I found that v interesting considering how we here often discuss the other side of that- those of us who can't cope with our parents any longer or struggle with them, and either go NC or LC. And that never happens without good reason- it takes a lot for someone to get to that point in my experience.

It was kind of jarring but also interesting to read the gransnet side of things- but also frustrating as someone whose mother thinks of herself as a butter wouldn't melt type, but has actually caused a lot of damage.

Has anyone else read it/ had any thoughts on this?

It's such a shame. The situation (between DiL and MiL) was one that was so well-known before the Chinese Revolution and it was hoped that the Revolution would stamp it out.

I'm sorry, but I really agree with Bertrand. There is so much wrong with that I scarcely know where to start. But, yes, it is staggeringly dismissive of older women.

I just read a thread where in laws we're aggrieved that her parents were with her at the birth. I never understood this! I think mine felt the same but it made perfect sense to me to have my mum there!

Mumsnet started in 2000, so some of the original mothers on MN are now grandmothers and MILS. There are some posters on this thread who are enormously dismissive of older women. The sexist and ageist comments on here are patronising and offensive. However, many of the women making these sweeping statements about the development of feminist ideas in the past five minutes, will themselves be moaning in a few years about how ungrateful their children are when they were such wonderful mothers back in the day. Plus ça change.

This is beside the point, but I really like the font and layout of Gransnet!

"The sexist and ageist comments on here are patronising and offensive. "

This with bells on!!

Well said MrsMuddle! There are some feisty and intelligent women on Gransnet

"Many of the posters on GN certainly do not ever consider that they themselves have done anything wrong and have no idea whatsoever "

Hmmm that sounds familiar

I don't doubt that there are abusive young people as well as abusive old people but I tend to believe the young people over the old people because a young person abusing their parent or in law just doesn't make sense. Why would you waste your time trying to abuse someone who's older and wiser, probably got the measure of you, and lives in a different house? Why wouldn't you abuse your kids and husband? The abusers who're in their 30s and 40s won't be bothering coming on here to complain about their mother in law, they'll be having far too much fun ruling their own house with a rod of iron. My mother was quite nice to her MIL, it was me and my dad whose lives she made a misery.

"I don't doubt that there are abusive young people as well as abusive old people but I tend to believe the young people over the old people because a young person abusing their parent or in law just doesn't make sense."

Blimey. That is extraordinarily naive!

Naive? What, because you can't fault the logic of it?

Oh God I made my Mum a Gran shen she was 40 and I know she's on here and probably Gransnet too, hope she doesn't read this ageist thread !
Doesn't matter how young or old a person is once an arsehole always an arsehole

My mother, who I’ve been NC with for years would have a great time on gransnet.

She plays the victim about not seeing my DC but will lie or omit details about her violence and abuse towards me.

She tells people I’m bipolar, I’m jealous of her or that I harbour a grudge about the shoes she bought me as a child. None of that is true.

Lots of ego stroking and pathetically trembling lips, and not understanding whyyyyy

That goes on here, as well, but it's called support. Why are you portraying older women as pathetic and disgusting?

I spend no time on GN tbh, but see no logical reason why it shouldn't be the same as anywhere else in the world. The OP puts a situation across from their own POV, and their peer group rushes to affirm them. Occasionally someone will challenge them, occasionally someone will flame them. But on most occasions an upset person is comforted and believed by their peer group, and the person who has 'upset them' is condemned. That's the same whether we're 65, 35 or 15. MN is our peer group, so we more readily see things from a DIL/adult DD's point of view.

I have no doubt that many OPs on GN are in the wrong, just as many OPs are here. But I very much doubt that the proportion is greater on GN than it is here.

No. Naive because you think there aren't just as many controlling, narcissistic and downright unpleasant young people as older ones.

Surely all of these so called abusive narc parents and ILs were someone's daughter or DIL once. Or do they just turn bad when they get to a certain age? I read GN sometimes, I suspect some of them were pretty awful parents and their kids have very sound reasons for going NC. I also think some of them are probably decent people just trying their best and feeling sad and bewildered about what has gone wrong and seeking some support. A bit like MN really.

My mum maintains that she had an awful relationship with her own mother. I don't know the ins and outs but I'm not going to let her use that (and she does, constantly) as her get-out for treating me like shit. If anything it makes me less sympathetic as she would have had the awareness about just what damage that can do and she did it anyway, presumably to transfer some of her own hurt on to me. She is not the same towards my younger brothers, it's just me.

She does a fantastic line at being 'sad and bewildered' that I want very little to do with her though.

I'm 65 and don't go on Gransnet as I think that the whole concept of Gransnet is ageist.
Each generation does things differently, we are subject to various influences due to the times we live in. Part of our personal development as parents is finding our own way and I don't think advice should be offered by anyone unless it is specifically asked for.
It is very hard to stand by and watch someone making a pigs ear of something when you know of a very simple solution, but as I said every grandparents mantra has to be " Never comment", why would you involve yourselves in others problems.
I love my two DIL's they have made my Ds's very happy .they are lovely girls, ( I trust that I have brought up my Ds's to choose lovely partners)
I know a lovely couple whose DIL has refused to let them see their grandchildren, they are two of the most inoffensive non judgmental nice people I know, (i used to work with their DIL and she is a controlling harridan) equally I met the sister of a friend of mine only last night who was complaining about the way her DIL and son were bringing up their grandchildren ( I actually felt quite uncomfortable and tried to change the subject).
it really does work both ways, and I hate the general assumption on this site that if you are older you you are immediately out of date and know nothing and are on the verge of senility, equally I hate the assumption from many older people that the younger generation are not capable because of their age and lack of "experience"

how about we all start being a bit more tolerent and think before we make assumptions and judgments

A PP said something along the lines of why bother to abuse older people, there was also something about they could abuse the partner and children.
Older people are being abused. There is a service probably a charity called Action on Elder Abuse. There are all sorts of abuses and withholding the DGC is just one tactic used.
There is financial, psychological, emotional and sexual abuses of older people going on.
PP queried why bother with abusing old folks. A lot will be financial. By still being alive they are keeping the inheritance money the younger generation are hoping to get. They are older and more life expereinced and sometimes say things like that boyfriend is no use. Then it becomes an indisputable fact and the young person resents the older person for having been able to see this.
As another PP said if anyone thinks only older people are bad they are niave. Even worse than that is the fact that one day all the young people will be the older ones in their families. I wonder how some of the young ones will be when they are older.

Naive because you think there aren't just as many controlling, narcissistic and downright unpleasant young people as older ones.

Nope. I think there are just as many young abusers as old ones. It's just that the young ones have a lot better things to do than a) abusing elder relatives who don't live with them and b) complaining about them in internet forums.

I see your point, but not sure I agree. In my experience with narcissists, they've had a massive need for validation and will expend a lot of energy in whipping up support for themselves, even if it's the opinion of strangers on the internet about their one-sided view of events. That degree of motivation will make even a busy person (and older people may also be very busy) get online and start justifying their behaviour at length. Also, withholding a person's grandchildren actually takes less time than maintaining contact, so that isn't really a question of time anyway.

Controlling, narcissistic, and downright unpleasant young people have a tendency to become controlling, narcissistic and downright unpleasant older people. Often those who go NC with parents do so because having children triggers unpleasant and frightening memories from their own childhood and can cause them to radically re-evaluate their relationship. Many times conversations are had before the decision to go low or no contact, but when AC and parents possess a bit of insight and an ability to communicate the shifting relationship deepens and grows.

I do agree on them being a bottomless pit of need for approval... I don't agree about NC though. NC is like starvation for narcissists so I would have thought that if a young narcissist was wanting to get some supply from an older relative, they might threaten NC or flounce out and then flounce back 2 weeks later, but not actually do it and stick to it. It's a different story again for estranged grandparents in the case of divorce of course.

Two sides to each story but know what you mean - I get the daily round up for some reason their was a thread about "how will I get over the heartbreak" basically woman had told her DIL that in her opinion (which she was not asked for) that her DS and DIL didnt have enough money to be going on a holiday they had planned her DIL undeatandablly was annoyed and granny was then not chosen to spend time with in the next half term - granny was then annoyed and "heartbroken" and couldn't underhand why 😄 Most advice was v sensible the OP never reappeared again because I suspect she didn't want to hear what the responses where most of which suggested she apologise and just get over herself

You see, to me that example sounds like petty-mindedness on the part of the DIL. The woman shouldn't have interfered, fair enough. But why keep her grandchildren away from her for that reason? And why are you so amused by her being heartbroken?

I know we could go through the details of every single post on GN in the same way, but imo that just illustrates the fact that different people have different perspectives. That most certainly isn't a case of 'abusive Granny wails for sympathy'.

Sitting completely on the fence ( also adding that I haven't read the GN post ) None of us know how the future of our relationships with our parents, inlaws etc will pan out . For those that feel they can be judgemental and name call other peoples parents or wonder at their mental health - there are always two sides to every story. Also we are tomorrows grandparents and perhaps, for whatever reason ( and rule of average and all that ) some of us will be non contact with our children/ grandchildren to be.