Meanwhile over on Gransnet....

[ChocolatePHD]

While bored earlier I popped over to gransnet to see what that's all about. Stumbled across the forums and noticed that a lot of the threads are about being estranged from their dc and slagging off the 'evil' children/ in laws who are keeping them from their grandchildren, and how heartbroken they are etc.

I found that v interesting considering how we here often discuss the other side of that- those of us who can't cope with our parents any longer or struggle with them, and either go NC or LC. And that never happens without good reason- it takes a lot for someone to get to that point in my experience.

It was kind of jarring but also interesting to read the gransnet side of things- but also frustrating as someone whose mother thinks of herself as a butter wouldn't melt type, but has actually caused a lot of damage.

Has anyone else read it/ had any thoughts on this?

Another one who agrees with Bert. We read many posts and have no idea what the other side to any story might be, but when someone is planning to manipulate a situation from beyond the grave, they don't exactly show themselves in a good light.

Heavens I cant understand how anyone can justify being at all unpleasant to a stroke (or any other health condition) victim! I see that as very cruel behaviour. Illness is not easy to live with especially for the person who is ill. Would you abandon a child for getting chickenpox? Older people have strokes etc children get chickenpox etc. it is the illness relative to age. Not one person would chose to be ill. For that illness to receive no sympathy or understanding from the nearest and dearest, must be utterly distressing.
I am shocked at anyone being so uncaring to their parent. The stroke was not a choice the NC was.

^ pretty sure SeaEagle meant that the child had a stroke, which changed the child's personality, and this led to the child deciding her mother was awful and as a result the child went nc with her mother.

Heavens I cant understand how anyone can justify being at all unpleasant to a stroke (or any other health condition) victim!

Exactly what beesandknees said

The daughter had a stroke and her personality changed afterwards :( In a number of ways, but starting to blame her mother for all sorts of stuff was one. Her entire disposition changed and she started acting completely differently in a number of ways. :(

I agree with Bert too, it really doesn't show you in a good light to be planning on dropping an emotional bomb onto your daughter/granddaughter once you will no longer be around to deal with the fall out.

It's just the kind of thing an abuser would do to make a point/show that they thought they were the better person. If you truly want your granddaughter to know you love them, reach out to your daughter while you are still alive!

I may have misunderstood if it was mother or daughter had the stroke and I know that illness causes extra stresses but kindness would be better I think. I am struggling myself with such a situation. I have someone who is so verbally nasty all the time and very cutting and hurtful. I have taken the view that this person must be terribly unhappy that they can find no joy in anything at all and is hitting out verbally to those who will not retaliate in kind. Many times I have been told by friends to dump this person I have even been told to pay it straight back. I am not the type to be aggressive so I endure it all often to my cost. I feel destroyed and full of self doubt at times but I am fairly sure something is wrong so I bear with it. This person is family no matter whether they are older or younger generation to me

user ... it's okay to say to this person that they can't act like this.

I have honestly come to the conclusion that some people have a genuine need for boundaries imposed from the outside. Not letting them get away with bad behaviour - for the sake of people who cannot fight back and for them, themselves. If someone goes down the path of being mean as heck, then they will get worse and worse and turn into unhappy and bitter people.

Who acts in life? Those who can

(and it was the daughter cut off the mother, absolutely her own choice, not the other way around, following the stroke. The mother still desperately hopes for contact and a relationship).

Seaeagle. I have various views on allowing my relative to conduct themselves badly. I wish they would not but as it is an adult no one really has the right to control. I think about cutting myself away but worry that isolation would not be good for the other person as there could be abuses being worked on them. Others have left this person's circle. I would be worried sick about a younger person who already suffered a stroke. I dont know what I can do for this person. Luckily I have others who replace the loss of confidence this person creates. I worry for those who live with this in their home.
Oh for a magic wand!

heardittoday

then, what happened next was unbelievable. dd's "new" partner is exactly the same, dd has repeated her pattern of behaviour again. so, was it her upbringing, or simply her character? I wish I knew the answer

People who come from abusive families are much more likely to end up in abusive relationships. You don't seem particularly bothered/concerned over her being in these relationships either . No wonder she is in this mess.

Wow there are some delusional women on there, I can imagine my mil using somewhere like that to vent, dh has gone no contact with her and his awful sister for many good reasons but mil doesn’t see any of it, she is a functioning alcoholic usually but does have some bad episodes of black outs though I am convinced these black outs are very selective.

Dh remembers mil and step dad coming back home once steaming drunk after they agreed he could have friends over while they were out. They both come back pissed as always, shouting and screaming and kicked dh head into a washing machine. Their version is this just didn’t happen at all (because 15 year old boys do make that up)

Both were very protective of his sister, she was not allowed boys round underage whilst they allowed him to have underage girls in his room and went out and bought them spirits to have (dh would of gone out and done it anyway so they were really being good parents apparently)

Multiple occasions mil getting drunk and chasing dh round the house verbally insulting him, scratching at his face etc. This didn’t happen of course.

Constant favouritism with his sister. Me and dh did not get engaged till two years into our relationship, mil reacted “why do you want to get married though?” We also didn’t get married till five years in. Dh sister meets a new man and is engaged within a few months and pregnant a the six month mark, que gushing about new grand child and how brilliant she is. I’ve never heard either of them say they are proud of my dh but sil is an angel the way they go on.

Because of all of this dh has always had a strained relationship with his sister which I can understand growing up seeing constant favourites played between you and your sibling. Again though they do not believe they played any part of this. Sil is very fake, feigned the whole aunty thing though it was more just to take pics of the kids and put them on fb. She and dh fell out and she dragged the kids into t, choosing to ignore them, my eldest is 8 and obviously noticed the missing messages and cards etc from this one aunty. Mil had excuses all lined up for her and honestly expected us to just forgive it

We’ve gone nc with them all now and it’s the best thing we did, they are all toxic and enable each other’s mad behaviour, we are lucky we have my family. But yes gransnetdoesnt surprise me, I can imagine mil on there saying what an awful challenging child dh was and how mean I am. They are all mad as a box of frogs.

Sadly there are situations where the adult child is at fault for the estrangement, often because they are in a co-ercive or abusive emotional relationship with someone who has manipulated them into cutting ties with the parents. It is naive, to say the least, to think that the fault is always on the parents' side.

Yes two sides to every story

They are all as mad as a box of frogs over there
The DM, MIL and GM I know who has been estranged by her son isn't mad but her DIL probably is.

If any mother knows her adult daughter is in an abusive relationship her heart is very likely broken for the daughter.
There is nothing anyone can do about a woman who does not want or have her own power to leave an abusive partner. These partners know when they are up against a strong woman and mother and Mil. They exert more reasons why the adult daughter should stay away from the mother. Mothers could provide a safe javen for an abused woman but after years of verbally and emotionally abusing the mother she can get broken down too.
I know young mums who are so under the thumb of these men. It is sickening to watch. Very irritating too. Instead of shunning mothers and mils these woman should look at the partner. This also applies to sons some of them are right under the thumb if abusive women.

I think about cutting myself away but worry that isolation would not be good for the other person as there could be abuses being worked on them.

Oh for a magic wand!

No easy answers, sometimes, are there :( I hope that somehow things become easier

Thanks Seaeagle

DownstairsMixUp I hear that. I've said all I have to say about my toxic mother on here. But as an adult child yes its good luck with anyone else really believing you, they have to see and hear it. A lot of people are so conditioned by that "you don't stop speaking to your own mother/your blood relatives" thing. At times I think the attitude of outsiders makes things worse for the victims. I won't speak to anyone aside from OH about it in rl. For the few that do know me and DM are NC, I am the daughter who is cruel to her mother

They'll say 2 sides to a story but immediately believe an elderly mother. Society conditions us to see mothers as loving, nurturing, caring so thats the general consensus out there

Yep mistress, dh has already had all the “but it’s your Mum?” Rubbish. She may well be but if your own mother is making you miserable and destroying your self confidence you have to draw a line somewhere. For her though it’s more that she can’t brag about being a loving nanny anymore on Facebook, I truly believe she wouldn’t care if she never spoke to her son again.

Just leaving this here:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/15/my-three-children-say-they-never-want-to-see-me-again-mariella-frostrup?CMP=fb_gu

My awful abusive mother just shouts liar/jealousy. She plays the victim as she doesn’t see my children. She was able to see and communicate with my children but chose not to, preferring to go down the poor me/victim road.

I know I’ve never lied, not even exaggerated slightly. As unfair as it all is, I know I’m not wrong.

My parents in law never once visited us or our three sons. Never.
They were always up for criticising us by telephone though.
My own mother moved 5 hours drive away with a new man when my oldest son was a year old and never came when the other two were born. My father lives in South Africa.
So we had no one at all.
I would have loved interfering parents/in laws. Yes please, tell me how to hold the baby/bathe the baby/feed the baby.
Iron our clothes please. I am not bothered what you are saying to me as long as you show willing.
I would not mind if they were a little forward with their advice because I would be damn grateful that I did not have to do EVERY SINGLE THING ALONE. I am reasonable and could bite my tongue if a little rudeness occurred. I am not so full of myself that i am ready to cut off very useful help.
Thirty three years later husband and I are still exhausted from just the memory of it .It is hell to have the trauma of knowing your own parents do not care.
Now our sons are adults they have no regard for their grandparents and obviously no relationship with them and did not grieve when in laws died.
Oh and my own mother is now a very old lady and living alone, she is now bemused as to why we will not help her in her old age. The younger man she gleefully left us for went off with a women his own age and had the children that she could not give him.
She is still five hours away and expects us to move near her.

To add to my above message I have four grandchildren by one son and daughter in law and am revelling in their company.
There are meals our and visits with third born son and his wife and they are also a pleasure to be with . First born son is successful and single, living overseas.
We all talk and sort out our lives like independent adults. I know their needs because they tell me and they know ours /mine. We are all so happy and relieved to form a family at last.
I am sure that they have things to say about us in private and occasionally we have opinions that we do not express to them.
However our and their aim is the same and that is to keep us all together.
Long may it reign.

Not sure whether I'm pleased or not that I took a peek in there

Can easily imagine my MIL on there ranting about DH and me. The lack of insight is so extreme in some cases the only way to keep yourself and your own family safe is to step away.

And bert is absolutely right. What a dick move. Don't be that person. It's your choice not to know your granddaughter (can't remember that disturbed poster's name) so it's particularly toxic and unforgivable to pass the nasty down to an innocent child.

#teambert

I would not mind if they were a little forward with their advice because I would be damn grateful that I did not have to do EVERY SINGLE THING ALONE

You forget that some people are forced to actively choose to do every single thing alone because their parents / in laws are so bloody unendurable.

There aren't any easy answers when things get to the extremes. Other peoples' experience is different from yours and it's clear that you were very, very lonely. But is it better to be alone, or to be dealing with hostile people, parents or not, who make your life a great deal harder?

There are a lot of people here whose experience is that once they cut contact with their parents / in laws, life becomes immeasurably easier.

Every person's situation is different.