The Dating Thread Number 122: Colour By Numbers

[ConorMcGregorsChin]

Dating thread rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is you don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. You are the prize - they should be trying to impress you.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread.

Well I have been doing the anything but proper relationship thing for two years now. On paper it fitted my single parent lifestyle well. And it has been fun and I have explored and pushed lots of boundaries. But it is hard work and exhausting and in a strange way not liberating. Well in terms that you have to put up barriers (that I'm not good at) and keep to boundaries. That's why I am here and back on OLD. Looking for good old fashioned realationship, love and commitment. To find someone I can be free with, invest in and not have to put up any kind of barriers. To find the full package and hopefully thus simplify my romantic situatuon. I suppose my main difficulty is lack of time to invest. But I know I'm in the same boat as many women out there so hopefully I can find someone who can deal with working round my family life. I sure it must be possible to have a relationship even if you can't see each other a lot?

Ruby I have to ask... whh is he called Mr Wig?

Conor ooo very exciting!

Pavonia I hear you. This is my first ever FWB type situation and it does sit comfortably with me. I'm doing OLD as having been horribly cheated on by my ex (for 6 years...) I need some carefree time and to feel desirable again. At some point I'll be looking for love though...

I have a friend who does multiple FWB as he wants to avoid the whole hurt thing that relationships sometimes bring.
Reality is, the FWB situations bring far more heartache, complications and hurt.
Madness!

Three cheers for romance.

Purple relax and enjoy. I think we are all so afraid of being hurt that we set our expectations to low.

I can't even face posting a profile at the moment for fear that I will get totally stressed by it all.

Not been keeping as up to date as I would like on here but sending you all positive vibes on the dating front....if any of you could proffer some advice to me on something I'd be grateful...I've been chatting to Mr.American for a few weeks and we eventually managed to sync up and have a date (coffee) and dinner...it went suspiciously well but I have this gnawing feeling.....he's full on throughout the week but cone the weekend he's gone....like completely gone....doesn't text back until Monday morning and this has happened for two weeks....maybe this isn't indicative of a pattern but I can't help but worry....am I being a freak?

Need that does sound a bit suspicious. Afterwards does he say what he was doing at the weekend? Has he said outright that he is single?

Need that smells like family life on the weekends to me I'm afraid.

So I asked Mr Irish what day he wanted to do this week cuz I needed to sort childcare & he responded that he can't do this week as he's now going to Ireland on thurs I msg'd back "ok well let me know when you're back if you want to go out" and he responded "of course". So not a dead iron but, as I suspected, has made himself too busy to date.

I'm having lunch with Mr Keen on Weds. He's very, keen! It's very different to what I'm used to but we'll see.

Here are my Bonding Prevention Rules copied from another thread I posted these on. I've had a few FBs and I've learned from my mistakes! You have to be pretty ruthless at making this work though. My rules in no particular order:

1. There have to be certain aspects about him that I dislike such that I know I'd never consider him to be relationship material and would never introduce him to friends or family.
2. I like dinner and a laugh prior to a night of passion (50/50 on costs, not looking to freeload) - not always possible but enjoying someone's company is sexy.
3. If they just intend to fuck and run then I want to know up front. I'm fine with that but I like to know so I can make plans.
4. After a few sessions if there are any disparaging remarks or a sniff of ghosting they're gone.
5. establish rules of engagement up front to avoid 3) and 4).
6. oxytocin is my enemy. I don't allow myself to snuggle afterwards. I get a drink then faff around rather than lie in bed bonding. Obviously if you're pulling an all nighter it's a bit different but beware!
7. no dating type daily texts (bonding starts...). Communication is to establish a hook up and any preliminaries (sexting or whatever). A bit of texting afterwards to make sure the other one got home OK, general courtesies then put the phone down until one of you feels the need to get back in touch for some fun.
8. it absolutely has to be a two way street. When you're in the mood for some fun he needs to make it work where possible as much as you will when he's in the mood. Keep an eye on that one. If sex only happens when he instigates it then you are on a slippery slope to feeling crap about yourself.
9. You have to stick to your guns and dump the twattish ones quickly.
10. Don't equate being an FB with having an FB. I think the idea of having an FB can appeal to some women as it's 'liberating', 'empowering' etc. They rarely analyse the impact of being an FB. That's why 8) above is so important.
11. If it stops being fun then tweak your rules of engagement or stop being an FB.

I think a lot of people delude and lie to themselves about being able to have and be an FB as they often secretly hope he'll fall in love with them.

Thanks, Been.

I think I may be confused about what an fwb is because I can't really imagine not snuggling and I don't think I ever really want to have sex without it.

I think for me the key thing about an fwb as opposed to boyfriend is that they don't get to use your house, they don't get to meet your friends, they don't get to ask you what you're doing all the time, they don't get to assume they're going places with you as your + one, they don't assume they get you all weekend even if they have nothing particularly interesting to suggest. you can focus on your work and kids and your friends and your projects; and make the same time for them as you would with any other friendship that is reasonably important to you; but not the be-all and end-all.

I am not experienced so I am only describing something I would like, not something I know anything about!

Grinch I don't think there are any hard and fast rules and I came up with my list so that I could get the sex without the rest! It really has to be each to their own. What I enjoy about reading this thread is that sometimes someone throws out a nugget that's a real lightbulb moment without any judgy stuff.

I also distinguish between FWB and FB as I can't do FWB - I bond and go daft! At the moment I'm inclined to romance as I want that long term happy relationship. I've tried a 'two front door' relationship and as much as it appeals that doesn't work for me. I want a shared front door the trouble is I'm starting to want some action which means I could suddenly swerve into FB mode... vicious bloody circle!

God, emotions are a bugger.

1DAD2KIDS I find it interesting that your approach to fwbs applies to others as bonding, but not to you - is that right?

I would hate to have cold, mechanical sex with someone who I thought didn't like me much. I really like the silly stuff, laughter and so so, nearly as much as the sex. But maybe that's why I'm stuck like this: trying to fashion a fwb sitch with someone while it's getting dangerously close to bf / gf; and then I will be an unsatisfactory gf; and there will be tensions and ARGH

I have to say, the way you describe treating the people you are with is nicer than I have had in some LTRs and maybe that's why I don't want one! It seems to be that someone who is 1. essentially a nice person 2. enjoying your company and 3. enjoying a certain thrill of novelty will be much nicer to you than a lazy, bored, selfish partner. And maybe that's what I want a fwb for - someone who will sparkle when I smile at them

(do you give fwbs birthday presents?)

But Grinch there's no cold mechanical sex in my bedroom! The sex is funny and warm and passionate with a lot of affection and humour, a lot of kissing and eye contact and kink so all of the passion and necessary trust is there. I have to really fancy him and like him BUT there has to be something I really don't like that means he's not a keeper... usually for me it's intellect I'm afraid.

Do you think you're looking for a two-front-door relationship rather than an actual FWB? Do you want exclusivity? FWBs aren't usually exclusive although I suspect that's often one-sided.

Smeaton I message my iron lots throughout the day. Right up to we meet and then it starts again after we say goodbye! There's lots of messaging about silly stuff. It's nice. For me it's really important.

It sounds like you have a connection going there as what else would you possibly find to talk about?

Have you met up? If so how many times?

Oh Been, I understood about the fun friendly sex from your post - I was thinking of the "cold mechanical sex" because 1DAD seemed to be saying that his style was anomalous.

Maybe it is a 2-front-door thing.

I think it doesn't matter in a way what you call it (especially in my case as I'll probably call it the wrong thing :) ) but you should talk to your potential other and work out whether you can set up something that works for you. this is tricky for me as this guy that I have seen twice is very shy about talking about stuff like this. He asked me if I was seeing any other guys under cover of darkness, and seemed to feel very uncomfortable about doing so. He is very happy to talk about feelings - and says things like "I really like you" quite happily - but not happy to talk about Relatinoships and Set Ups and What Is Our Deal. This worries me as obviously there is huge potential for things to go wrong! I have to find a way to lead on this, which is tricky because I don't know what I'm doing - but someone has to, before someone fucks up.

I meant:

"he asked me, under cover of darkness, if I was seeing any other guys" - he picked a moment when the room was very low lit and I coudln't really see his face and I think it is because he was shy

Been once again thanks to you for your wisdom and plain speaking. Awesome advice totally agree that you have to work fairly hard emotionally to keep yourself on track.

Been, I hope you don't mind if I ask you some very personal questions about sex, and if you don't want to answer, I will understand.

you say you have a very high sex drive and sometimes that leads to fb situations to satisfy that. But now you are looking for one-front-door love. How do you manage a high sex drive within a relationship? I have never been sexually satisfied in a relationship and I have found living with / sleeping with someone who doesn't satisfy me very uncomfortable. Really enragingly uncomfortable. It is one of the reasons (along with snoring) why I didn't sleep with ex for years - I just couldn't stand the vast majority of the time not getting sexual satisfaction. I felt like I was being granted occasional crumbs.

Sexual desire is far more bearable to me single because a. there isn't anyone around actively not satisfying me, if you see what I mean; and b. latterly because it has dawned on me that you can actually get sex if you are not cheating.

I am not sure if I have an unusually high drive or not, I don't know.

Do you think that a one-door relationship will be ok? Because I couldn't go back to that sexual frustration. you could say "oh well I woudln't pick someone who didn't satisfy me" - but how do you know at the beginning? And when you are emotinally invested and stuck with someone who would rather watch football and read the itnernet than sort you out - what do you do?

In my darker moments it sometimes seems like nearly all relationships are statistically going to be between people of mismatched desires. Those where people stay faithful are going to consist of someone who is regularly satisfied, and someone who is regularly not. and finding someone who wants you more than you want them, and keeping them in frequent frustration, is pretty cruel; the alternative is to be the other person and be the frustrated one yourself. I guess that's pretty dark and everyone is going to tell me it doesn't work like that and love is wonderful

Hi AntiG I'm now not a regular poster on here as I'm seeing Mr PrevIron, but I hope you don't mind I wanted to pop in and say people can match with people with the same drives.

In my original imagined wishlist I put physical connection and matching my physical drive low down thought outlook on life and similar experiences more important , turns out it is better higher up for me.

I now think screw wishlists, keep it simple, find someone you fancy first and like second, other things don't then seem relevant. It is a numbers game to get to that point the kissing frogs analogy works here

No worries Grinch even in RL I'm very open if asked. My first marriage was sexually dull because XH1 was a prude (he hated oral sex, even receiving!) but we had a lot of sex and with XH2 (who I always refer to as XH) we had what I thought was a great sex life - probably three times a week after 15 years but sometimes none for a week or so then a glut - depending on work, travel etc. Then I started studying while working full-time - that's when sex really dwindled as I was working all weekend and we died. I really believe that sex is relationship glue.

In my most serious post -XH relationship where we attempted to live together we had sex at least once a day, usually twice... with recent ex, when we were together it was two or three times a day - sometimes we never got up! I'm quite hedonistic and so was he so we were a bad influence on each other god I miss him so much.

Thinking about it I've always had a lot of sex in my relationships so there's not been the mismatching you mention. I need my partner to be adventurous though with a bit of kink.

If I did find myself in a relationship with someone who had mis-sold himself as my ideal man and then morphed into a fish cuddling, football watching potato I'd leave him. The one thing I've learned since XH is to not be scared of being on my own. I'm more scared of being lonely within a relationship as that's horrendous and I know I'd be gone long before that happened.

For me the one-door relationship isn't an issue sexually it's day to day compatibility that's my issue. After recent ex I've come to the conclusion that it's the his 'n' hers baggage that has to be compatible.

Thanks Lana, thanks Been.

Lana - I probably made the same mistake in semi- consciously deciding (or "deciding") that sex didn't matter. One of those "sensible" decisions that can go so very wrong. I'm glad things are working out for you with your guy!

Been, do you mind me asking what went wrong with the hedonistic ex that you miss so much?

"If I did find myself in a relationship with someone who had mis-sold himself as my ideal man and then morphed into a fish cuddling, football watching potato I'd leave him."

It makes sense but it took me ages to see that it was the only way. Having done so once - very painfully disentangled our lives and worked very hard to find practical ways of managing a full time job and small-ish children - I never want to find my life so entwined with another that it is a huge practical feat to disentangle it.

I so sometimes wonder about ex's relationship with his current gf. When he got together with her there was a huge rush of hormonal excitement - visible even to me - and now the whole thing has calmed down a lot and his time with the children seems to involve her (and her children) a lot less. I wonder whether she is happy with him or if she is feeling that she was promised a thrilling romantic and is now stuck with a boring guy who only wants to see her for boring nights in and as an extra adult body on holiday? :)

Advice please, when is it appropriate to discus being exclusive? Mr Mountain is still on POF, my account is hadden and I haven't been in there since we dtd but I am guessing he is still on there (I don't want to go and check because then he will see I'm online). I did briefly mention it on Sunday to him but that was before we DTD. I now feel a bit uncomfortable knowing he might be talking to other people whilst we are making plans for our next date. I don't know if he consider us as being in a relationship, we haven't really discussed it much but he seems happy to make plans involving me for the future. I don't think he has been on a date with anyone else as he messages me non stop but he could easily be talking to others.

Lovemusic personally for me I wouldn't discuss it yet. You've only been on two dates which is still very early days.
However I can see your dilemma and I'd be feeling the same if I had dtd with a guy and was wondering if he was still talking to other women online.
Sorry I'm not much help, perhaps wait until after the third date and then it gives you a chance to think things through and prepare what you want to say.

Your probably right user ,I am still on there but hidden as I know it's early days, things rarely work out and I don't want the hassle of making another account but as far as I can see he hasn't hidden his account and is in there most days (or has been up until I stopped going on to check). It's a tough one as it's early days but I feel once you have DTD it seems a bit wrong to be still looking?

Maybe I will wait until our next date and then maybe bring it up?

Grinch hedonistic ex was a functioning alcoholic and ultimately his actions didn't match his words. The alcohol thing didn't show its face at first because we were lolling around in bed drinking a lot or going out and having a glass of something. Plus his FWB was his boss and he failed to mention it after a big show by him (uninitiated by me!) of him wanting to be open and honest about his past. Lies by omission don't sit well with me after XH's affair and a lot of smoke screening and omissions by XH. Incompatible baggage as I call it. I don't think I'd realised previously the importance of actions having to match words as a red flag until being on here this time and reading other threads and recent ex would love bomb me very plausibly but then leave me with nagging doubts because, as I've finally figured out, his actions didn't match his beautifully delivered words. In my ever changing list of red flags actions matching words is right up there just after crap sex.

Love it is early days but I get where you're coming from having DTD and his appearing serious about the two of you. Could you use one of his planning moments to mention his profile?

For example: "hey Love shall we go and see The Thread Bunnies in November?".

"Ooh Mr Mountain, I love them too. Hey, if we're planning stuff ahead like this does it mean we're an official item? I do hope so You know, in the last-rolo-giving zone and exclusive? . If so do you think we should delete our dating profiles?"

I do think you have to explicitly agree to exclusivity and deleting profiles and not assume one equals the other.