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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

The Dating Thread Number 122: Colour By Numbers

999 replies

ConorMcGregorsChin · 13/09/2017 18:27

Dating thread rules:

  1. The first rule about the dating thread is you don't talk about it with people you're dating.
  2. Develop a thick skin.
  3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
  4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
  5. Trust your gut instinct.
  6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
  7. You are the prize - they should be trying to impress you.
  8. If it's not fun, stop.
  9. Loo update is mandatory.
10. No dating the thread.
OP posts:
PurpleSweetPeas · 01/10/2017 22:30

Been I'm pretty sure he's decided on his course of action and no mulling required there!
But I think you've just hit the nail on the head with what happened with the other guy.

couchtospecialk · 01/10/2017 22:49

Purple... I can't really elaborate on what others have said. Though I think sometimes blokes say they have a high sex drive initially because they're turned on by a person and the prospect of the potential shagging. Stay vigilant for what you said about "seeing where it had gone wrong for him in the past" when he let his guard down but otherwise I'd say he sounds cracking!

Anti how are you doing? What news of Mr Sexting Man??

I had my first 20-something message me earlier. He straight off got into what he liked in bed (bum action). On like message 3! I told him I was shutting the conversation down... Bloody millenials. Other than that am chatting to a few others... nice enough but no spark like with Mr HNL. We've arranged to meet again on Thursday evening for HOT SHAGGING. He's still actively dating but will tell me about (I'm guessing some of) his dates. Hard to know what's a line and what isn't but we've agreed honesty's important.

I've not made my peace with the fact that I'm in a FWB / mooseburgers / slutty situation as I've never done that before. Trying not to let my feelings about that ruin this for what it is.... FUN.

AntiGrinch · 01/10/2017 22:59

Hi Couch!
I've had some nice messages from Mr Sexting today. (Not sexts). He sounds happy and friendly and into me. I really like him.
I do feel that the whole boyfriend thing would be a mistake though.
Still - no need to worry about stuff that hasn't happened yet. I've seen him twice, I've had a nice time, it looks like I will see him again, that's all good I think.

What does "not made my peace with fwb situation" mean. how do you actually feel? Guilty? Paranoid about practical matters? Anything we can help with?

couchtospecialk · 01/10/2017 23:08

Anti! Flowers That's great. He does actually sound quite into you, which is great but then kind of goes against thinking he's not boyfriend material.. It's a contradictory feeling towards him. Stay vigilant and protect yourself!

You've just made me think, texts from Mr HNL are probably 70% sexting. It's very much FWB but he's sweet, asks if I'm home safe etc. But I suspect he's got a very high sex drive which for the purposes of my OLD suits me fine!

My issue is that I feel vulnerable to rejection... can't walk the line of being so intimate with someone but not seeing them as boyfriend material. Also my ex belittled me intellectually (sometimes on purpose) so I don't like feeling like my only value is my body. Contradictory feelings there for me too! I'm actually getting a lot of joy out of it - any tips how to manage the two different feelings?

AntiGrinch · 01/10/2017 23:14

Great questions. I don't know if anyone else can be more help, but I find....

What has changed for me (this is my first time doing this kind of fwb thing) is that I really enjoy it when I am really open about enjoying him sexually. So the past-me used to think I should be really subtle about sex, they should think they want me more than I want them, sex should be associated with being a cherished prize or something. And if something goes "wrong" with the pattern - you don't get enough phone calls or adoration or something - you can feel like shit.

What I have found is that if I behave in a cheeky, lusty way and just come out and say something fun about thinking about their body, I flip the balance of power and cast myself as a predator - there is no shame or guilt in it when you take that (traditionally male power) to yourself. I think you can't expect to be passive and adored as some precious rare flower in a fwb situation; but you can find how much pleasure you can take in being active. Which also, for me, has the fun of novelty

couchtospecialk · 01/10/2017 23:25

Anti That. Exactly that. Is what I'm finding so much joy and power in. And I guess as a result, enjoying sex more so than maybe ever before?! And thinking about it, therein lies the protection... keep to that role and don't let feelings get in the way though I'm an emotional car wreck at the minute Guess if it stops being fun I'll end it. BUT IT'S REALLY BLOODY FUN Grin

Thanks, actually feel loads better about it all of a sudden! Flowers

Oh plus I've just got me a date with a 2nd iron who I will call Mr Vegan. I'm vegan too so it's more of a lifestyle in common thing, no spark really but who knows IRL.

PurpleSweetPeas · 01/10/2017 23:29

Couch thank you for that.
I was quite pleased that I got an insight as I was beginning to wonder what had gone wrong. TBF what he said should make me realise he won't be going anywhere after DTD! In a nice way.

Also the sexting. I have a sexting buddy which took a bit of getting into with working out my emotional boundaries. But once I took control, much like Anti said, it changed the dynamics. I have a lot to thank my sexting bloke for GrinEnjoy it for what it is.

Beentherelefthimgotthetshirt · 01/10/2017 23:41

Grinch I've always been pretty predatory when it comes to sex - definitely not a precious rare flower! Despite that my sex life post divorce has been eye opening and amazing because I've met some very open-minded and experimental men when compared to XH. For me being predatory about sex doesn't make me invulnerable to bonding and the head fuck that goes with it which is why I compartmentalise my FBs in the extreme way that I do and stick with my 'bonding prevention rules' - I learnt the hard way. The trouble is no matter how painful the lesson my libido just pops right back up again in the end like a trusty thistle - beautiful but a thorny problem if ever there was one.

AntiGrinch · 02/10/2017 04:31

Been -

"which is why I compartmentalise my FBs in the extreme way that I do and stick with my 'bonding prevention rules' "

Have you actually laid out the BP Rules? If so, I am very sorry because I've missed them. I'd love to know what they are. Would you mind sharing? (esp if they work!)

couchtospecialk · 02/10/2017 06:50

Been yes please to the bonding prevention rules!!!!!

Lovemusic33 · 02/10/2017 07:48

I need to see the BP rules, maybe we should have them at the top of the page on the next thread.

After my date yesterday I can't stop thinking about Mr Mountain and over thinking things, I'm trying so hard not to over invest, I know it's very early days and he could just vanish and I'm petrified of getting hurt yet again. He was messaging me last night, seems keen. Deffently felt a spark yesterday and hoping he did too but trying really hard not to message him this morning to tell him I'm thinking about him, I'm trying to play it cool. It's going to be a long week.

PurpleSweetPeas · 02/10/2017 08:04

It's hard isn't it Love. So hard not to over invest but then to know when you can relax a little!

PhoenixMama · 02/10/2017 08:09

Anti & Couch it's really interesting hearing how you guys are feeling early on in the FWB situations. It reminds me how I felt earlier on. Being "slutty" definitely changed my sex life for the better - I became more confident, better repertoire, I call it my sexual revolution. But, aside from one situation where it turned into a relationship, it also took a massive toll on me emotionally. Eventually people move on, their feelings change, you discover things about them you can't overlook, they get flakey, they choose someone else. I'm terrible with rejection & ultimately this situation will most likely end (and you might even end it) so you need to keep that in the back of your mind.

I know not everyone feels that way, but after 3 years of varying fbs or fwbs that's what I learned. Right now I'd rather go without than have more sex with someone who's not emotionally invested in me.

Not meaning to be Debbie Downer but I guess just guard your feelings carefully.

Smeaton · 02/10/2017 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smeaton · 02/10/2017 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lovemusic33 · 02/10/2017 08:40

Smeaton I message my iron on and off all day, I try and not message him during the day as he's working but in the evenings (when I'm not working) we will message on and off until one of us falls asleep.

Purple it's really tricky, I don't want to over invest but I don't want to come across as being cold either (because he might think I'm not interested). I don't know what to say to him, I really want to say 'yesterday was amazing and can't wait to see you again etc..etc...' but I don't want to seem over keen. I have told him I enjoyed yesterday but have played it cool, he has actually said 'can't wait till next time'. I'm still very wary as he hasn't been single very long and I think he was with his ex for a few years (they were living together), I don't want to be someone's rebound.

AntiGrinch · 02/10/2017 10:11

Phoenix

"& ultimately this situation will most likely end (and you might even end it) so you need to keep that in the back of your mind. "

yes, this is in my mind, always. It will end, with a bang or a whimper, and I know that.

1DAD2KIDS · 02/10/2017 10:30

Sorry PurpleSweetPeas it was a reply to Love. I thought it would go on the next line but when I was writing you had posted. That'll teach me not to reference the person I am responding to. Sorry for the confusion.

1DAD2KIDS · 02/10/2017 11:59

This is all very interesting to me as someone who is rather quite experienced with burled boundaries since the end of my marriage. I find boundaries are quite hard to maintain unless you actively seek and steadfast for one kind of set up and the other people are too. It takes a real special mind set.

Over the past 2 years I have been on quite a journey. I have had involvement with FBs, FWB, one night stands, swingers parties/orgies, women in poly or swinger relationships where they meet alone with OH permission and a 4 monthish set exclusive relationship (an odd deal I know). What I have learnt is attachment is a funny thing. Not so much a problem with one night stands, one offs and parties. But defiantly when it comes to any kind of hook up where you meet more than once or do other activities out side the bedroom. I have always been very open, set clear about what I seek and that I am not exclusive. I am fairly good at compartmentalising my self. I have seen the idea of relationships as wide spectrum of different things rather than fixed single or fwb or serious long term relationships, at least in theory. The trouble is often things seem to change once you spend some real time with people and often is the case that they seem to fall more seriously for me and this is where it gets messy. On reflection maybe its the way I am? I am very chatty, open, caring and honest with everyone I meet. I don't see why this should be the reserve of a proper relationship pre se? But maybe this has been part of the problem with the lines being blurred. I cant do cold mechanical sex. If I have sex its very intimate, unselfish and whether gentle or rough or kinky its always caring and aftercare (kisses, cuddles, spooning etc) is always important to me (and enjoyable too). I generally think everyone should feel amazing and I find I get the same effort back. The more I speech to FBs, FWB, Swinger friends etc about other men I find that lots of other men in terms no committal relationships maybe wont kiss, wont give oral, wont give a massage, will be quite selfish and cold. Sometimes they can be very clinical, very sort of fuck and go. I run a bath once for someone and shaved her legs. Seemed a normal nice thing to do but to them but it was a total revelation to them, not ever had that done to them in a LTR. So maybe I'm the trouble? Maybe I am inadvertently breaking too many rules and causing unwanted attachment by the way I am? But that is me, I cant be cold and just have mechanical sex without any connection. If I could be like that I may as well buy a sex doll.

So to that end I have realised that the FWB, FBs thing is not working for me however perfect it may seem to suite my life on paper. I started the change my situation a few months ago. I now don't look for meeting new for no strings type things. I have maintained contact with a very local FB (non exclusive) and my FWB (also none exclusive). My FB is very interesting as she is truly the master of keeping a compartmentalised life. We share a very intense and intimate sex life. We know each other sexually very well and there is tons of trust (very much needed). We can have a great chat, a laugh and a drink together. But then after we have finished she can literally flick a switch in her head, move on with her life and not give me another thought. We don't chat outside of the bedroom unless its to arrange another session. My FWB however has grown outside of Its boundaries in terms that we have become better friends that anticipated. She is a good friend outside of the bedroom, we text most nights, we do dinner dates too and we are very connected in the bedroom. The trouble is I know she is not the one. That's why I wont take her away anywhere or introduce her to any friends/family, that really would break the boundaries. This is no secret as we are very open with each other. The trouble is she see me as the perfect boyfriend and LTR partner for her. So despite our original shared ground rules and honesty with each other at some point there will be some unavoidable heartache.

So what I learnt is maybe there is a reason maybe for the clear boundaries in society. For many FWBs maybe great and very practical but is paved with issues of attachment, unhappy endings and confusion. At the moment although I tend to blur boundaries I do have some barriers that I put up to avoid total attachment for my self, such as the holiday or friends and family thing. I feel I am at a place now were I don't want to put up any more walls or set boundaries. I want to let someone totally into my life, to go on holidays with them, to share all the important things in my life with. I want more that FWB and to in a way simplify my life by not worrying about boundaries and barriers. In a way liberate myself by allowing my self to totally fall into someone again. That why I am on here now and why I am being very picky and only looking for good relationship material.

Lovemusic33 · 02/10/2017 14:39

1DAD I have had a few FWB, I think where I struggle is when they find someone else or move on to a relationship with someone else. I have only had one FWB that I haven't become attached too and that's only because I know he's not relationship material (he's a cheat and can't keep it in his trousers). Ideally I would like a relationship but this seems to take time, I have a high sex drive so if I'm not in a relationship I need to find someone to have a bit of fun with. In a ideal world I would find someone to be in a relationship who has a similar sex drive as me, this seems to be tricky. Mr Mountain lives quite far away (over an hour) and at the moment I think we will see each other once a week, I'm not sure if I can cope with once a week but I don't want to rush things either. It's all confusing and hard work Grin

RubyRed2017 · 02/10/2017 17:27

I'd love to see these BP rules too Grin

Regarding FB/FWB arrangements. I have found OLD nearly as useless for this as for finding a "real" relationship, for the amount of effort expended. The number of last-minute cancellations for spurious reasons is just unreal.

For me there is no point in going through all the hassle of OLD just for a hook-up. Its not worth the effort.
Have pencilled in a date for Mr Irish to visit for a weekend of hot sex.
Looking forward to second date with Mr Wig very soon...DTD is very much on the agenda for that!

ConorMcGregorsChin · 02/10/2017 18:28

Ruby I agree with you. I've had two potential FWB go flaky on me in the last week so they either shit their pants when it came to it or had other offers. Either way, not worth the hassle! And as others have said, they could disappear at any time if they find someone else anyway.

I had a date with someone yesterday who lives in the next village to me. He also happens to be related to someone I know. We had a right laugh, lots of snogging and I ended up meeting him for an hour today for coffee too. He's coming round for DVD and Take away one night so will see how that goes. Easy to talk to and funny which is good and also looked better in real life than his photos which is always a bonus!

OP posts:
Pavonia · 02/10/2017 19:26

Is love and romance dead? All I'm hearing is talk of FWB, FBs and sex on the second date. Not judging, but I wonder how representative of OLD this thread is at the moment? If it is a true picture of the OLD scene it might explain why some of us are disappointed.

ConorMcGregorsChin · 02/10/2017 19:36

You are totally right Pavonia and that's why I've decided to ditch looking for FWB type scenarios. It's not what I really want although I do understand why people do it.
I think we are in very strange times and the sweet shop mentality and easy hook up options is definitely very representative of OLD current status quo.
I'm not judging anyone but I think I've realised it's not for me even though I thought I was a very modern / open minded woman. I asked a week or so ago if people didn't truly want to find real love. I'm sure we all do. But in the meantime I think we sabotage that in many ways.

OP posts:
PurpleSweetPeas · 02/10/2017 19:46

Conor and Pavonia - I'm flying the flag for romance! I'm being completely romanced if only I could relax into it!