I lost my closest friend to my husband (no affair involved!)

[revolution909]

Basically my closest friend and my DH have become so close that it's impossible to rant about him with her as she feels she's right in the middle. I also realised she clearly has more friends than me (she used to claim she didn't) and basically have felt like a bit of a loser the past few days. I actually have no more friends than her and that realisation makes me want to cry. I work full time from home.. so that makes things a lot more difficult. I've tried with the mums from school and we just don't click. i think my best bet is joining my local running club as I spent most of my free time running. But yes in a nutshell I'm kind of sad I've lost her to my husband! I was happier with her being primarily my friend and that she was just "friendly" with DH.

Well I'm at terrible at getting sarcasm, I'll add to the list of things that make me gullible in general :/

I have to comment to this one as I had a similar situation to this with a female friend of both of us, who became in my opinion too close to my DH .
She definitely came between us, we would chat with her together and separately, meet up with her have her to stay etc.
Gradually it became too much for me with it feeling like she considered him to be her partner. She would pander to him , fuss him etc making me look bad as I didn't want to do so after 20 odd years of marriage.
They also spent time alone together with my permission, I had little concern initially that anything was going on . However over time I found it uncomfortable and inappropriate.
Several months down the line after various heated rows with my DH about it, he has stepped back from the friendship with her and focused back on us . Result a marriage back on track and a happier family .
He now can see how she was interfering in our lives and why it upset me . We still have her as a friend but at a much more appropriate level .
Interesting though DH said she sent him a private message recently saying how her Facebook "on this day " posts had kept coming up showing her just how much time she was with us and how she realized how much she interfered in our life .
I know op that your situation is slightly different but the outsider views here on MN helped me , hope they help you too ..

What a bizarre thread. As a PP said, revolution can't say a single thing right, can she? Whatever she says, however she responds, she's wrong/weird/too intense/too naive/too everything. People seem determined to pick her to pieces.

revolution I don't know whether your 'D'P is likely to have an affair with your friend, and nor does anyone here, despite their insistence to the contrary. People who've been cheated on, though, tend to see infidelity and the potential for infidelity everywhere, even where there is none. On the other hand, I would keep a close eye on them, because your friend's behaviour change is odd, and shared bonding over their body image and anxiety could be a potent mix.

The more you've said about your partner and relationship, however, the more worrying he sounds. You don't have to put up with him pestering you constantly for sex and projecting his own insecurities and preoccupations with others onto you, you know.

I do appreciate all opinions, I think at the very least make look at things more objectively.

I can also see how it has gone both ways, like I've baked and cooked stuff especially for he DH we've all eaten them, but on the other hand I've done the same for her, but maybe she's misread that in the past. I remember last year I offered to bake a cake for her DS and she was vague at first so I asked again... Then she definitely rejected the idea and to some extent made me feel like I had crossed the line. I just wanted to help :/

That reminds me that during the holiday they had some time alone as when we were out, my DD like to spend time with her DH and her DS liked to spend time with me, so they usually just stayed at the back while we were with the kids. We even made a joke about it.

Thank you @TatterdemalionAspie ! I know that's the case and I've trying to stand my ground, it's not easy though. Just yesterday he was getting all stressy and moody about work and I told him it was very draining, that no matter how cheerfully and happy I was around him his mood just wouldn't change, so what was the point in trying? His mood did improve after talking to him so I think we're taking the right steps.

@revolution909, I think that there are so many red flags that tracking down a copy of "Why Does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft, and reading it secretly to try to figure out your relationship with your husband would be a good idea. To me, he sounds very manipulative and controlling. I suspect that he is primarily a Water Torturer with a little Demand Man thrown all, all with an undercurrent of narcissism.

• The obvious flag is the sexual abuse.

• Another flag is his constantly talking about other people's sexual attractiveness, and a third flag is that you were uncomfortable with it but it kept at it and kept at it until he worn you down. That was tremendously disrespectful of you, but he made it normal to you.

• The fact that he is obsessed with weight and looks, but does nothing about his weight while you work out obsessively is also a flag.

• Your relationship with him revolves around you caretaking his emotional problems (anxiety), while he makes you feel bad about your outbursts. Of course you have outburst -- you are living with a man who forces you to have sex, accuses you of things you haven't down, puts you down, disregards your feelings, doesn't help out, and keeps you isolated.

Isolation is REALLY what this thread is about. You said you haven't had a real friend in 5 years. You finally had one. He has figured out a way to take that friend away from you. The only friend you have had in 5 years. He has already destroyed the friendship, and you are morning its loss. He even manipulated you into saying that they should stay friends.

Who gains from you not having any friends? Him. What does he get from it? He gets you focused only on him and his emotions, and he doesn't believe you have a right to have your own friends. He also keeps you from developing sources of strength that could contribute to your independence. Keeping you isolated increases his power and control.

I think that your ex-friend has most likely had conversations with him that you don't know about, and that he is messing with her head too. He is playing you off each other. He has said things about you to her. He took your only friend away, because he doesn't want you to have any.

@TrailingWife I actually started reading it, but I saw myself as an abusive type too so I ended up putting it in the back burner.

he is like a small child, he want me to solve his life for him. I don't know if he's always been that way or I turned him that way... He got upset because I didn't pack his sunglasses! How is that my responsibility??

Yes indeed. i'm lonely.. I've never been the type who has LOTS of friends, but I've always had some. She was the first meaningful connection , as of lately her husband is part of it too , but obviously is not the same.

He helps me get friends. He always invites me to his work drinks and such. Always tries to find people i can get along with. But you just can't be friends with other people just because they're there, there needs to be something else.

Have they talked about me? Maybe but i don't know about what. Maybe my hormones? Maybe how the feel so left behind? I have no idea

Did you have friends when you met him? Did you see yourself as abusive when you met him?

I question if what he tells you about yourself is true, and it seems obvious that you aren't allowed to get a second opinion. You even see yourself as responsible for the fact that he acts like a child. How could you have caused that?

He isn't a child. He is a very, very skilled manipulator.

Nope, I didn't have any. I moved to this country because I married him. I'm not an expat by choice so to speak.

Yeah I shout, but I don't think I'm the angry person he claims I am.

Culturally we show love by caring, so doing things for other people, that and food! so I think I've taken all of those possible responsibilities for him if that makes sense.

I'm American and my husband is British. You guys made a choice about which country to live in, just like we did. If you aren't an expat by choice, how did he convince you to drop everything and move to a new country? Was it truly a mutual decision with shared power, or is it what he wanted so it is what you ended up with?

Doing things for a person to show love is VERY different than doing them so you don't get yelled at. You didn't forget his sunglasses because you don't love him enough, but in future you WILL remember them because you don't want to be yelled at. How many other things are you careful about in order to avoid him screaming at you? Walking on egg shells isn't showing love; it's living in fear.

You are in a very vulnerable position because in order to get back to where you have friends and family and a support system, you'll have to navigate international child custody, visits, and support agreements. That might be why you are having such a hard time seeing what he is doing.

You are isolated with no friends. You made ONE friend. He stole your friend, and then convinced you that because of his anxiety, he needs the friend more. Now you have no friends and he figured out how to make you pity him!

He may not even care about keeping the friend -- the whole thing may have been smoke and mirrors designed to confuse you and keep you isolated, dependent on him, and focused on his feelings rather than your reality.

@TrailingWife The short answer is I got pregnant. I didn't have many choices and he wanted to do the right thing (stay with me and keep the baby).

Trailing wife - your posts are extremely insightful. Your thoughts might explain what many people are thinking is odd on this thread , viz

OP posts saying " I'm troubled about this situation" .
Many posters reply " yes I'd be troubled too, you are not imagining it "
OP spends the rest of the therapy saying that it is in fact OK and we are all imagining it .

So perhaps OP has been gaslighted by her H into thinking its all ok and that her own gut feelings are wrong. We are getting HER feelings and all HIS justifications and manipulations ( from mouth ) .

Sorry to talk about you as if you are not here OP, I can't think of any other way to explain it.

@Kr1stina are you talking about the affair side of things? Because I still think that's not the problem here. Yes, he's controlling and manipulative. He spent the first 4 years of our marriage being resentful that we had a baby. He's grown past that and hasn't mentioned it not even once in the last three years.

I wouldn't move back to where my family is, sure I'd have support there, but my daughter deserves to see her dad on a regular basis. That and the shock of turning her life upside down. Moving back is not an option. It was an option maybe 6 years ago when I thought of doing it but decided to give it a chance.

When I applied for the job he was supportive in his own way. When we talked more in depth about it, he started to be all gloomy and negative about and that simply I shouldn't take it. He still hasn't changed his tune, but I told him you can definitely be pragmatic without being negative.

I do think at times that he's taken away my natural positivity.

OP - if I understand Trailing wife correctly, she's suggesting a different motive for your Hisbands behaviour.

So he's not cultivating the friendship of female friend because he fancies her or is already having an affair. He's doing it to take her away from you. Because he wants to control and isolate you. And show you how powerless you are.

So your opinion that " its not an affair - it's a normal friendship " is half right .

Yes you are right it's not an affair.
No you are wrong because it's not normal .

It's not normal in the sense of healthy and appropriate, although it may be normal as in it happens all the time in your relationship.

And it also explains why you ask everyone here for their opinion but then tell us we are all wrong. Because we are half right..

And he's been brainwashing you for so long, you spout his crap justifations back at us. Because you really believe it.

You have to believe it, otherwise you would relaise he's abusing you and that's a terrifying thought.

This is all theory of course, only you know how much is accurate.

Have you ever read the Lundy Bancroft book often recommended on here , I'll get a link

www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Why-Does-He-Do-That-Inside-Controlling/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500970490&sr=8-1&keywords=why+does+he+do+that+book&tag=mumsnetforum-21

My friend's DH got friendly with one of her friends as they both suffered from depression and were 'supporting' each other. They were very close as helped each other as both understood it. Then they had an affair...

It never worked out and I don't think it normal circumstances it would have happened. And if you want to play the attractiveness game - she wouldn't have been a contender. But they bonded over a MH issue and offered each other something they, erroneously, didn't think they could get from their spouse. I have heard of this before and don't think it is unusual.

My friend forgave him. I wouldn't have.

Yup, I've started reading that book. I didn't find it helpful because I felt I had been an abusive person too. And for general sanity I just didn't think that was the right path to go. I'm on a waiting list for 1:1 therapy for people with my condition, it's also for woman's general well-being so I'm hoping with the context of my condition and what it can do to relationships I'll be able to get more answers.

@revolution909
Have you had any treatment for your PMDD? I think I have it. My GP talked about anti-d two weeks per month but as they take two weeks to work I asked how that would help and he agreed with me. I take anti-d now and it hasn't helped anyway.

A low carb, no caffeine diet really really helped me. Also taking good multivit and higher B vit may help in conjunction. Swimming helps too. Not so much running for me because I am so bad at it!

Your DH sounds like a horrible piece of work. I think it would improve if you ditched him tbh

@PugOnToast I don't take any medication because surprise surprise husband gave me an ultimatum that it was the meds or him. I don't think I need them anymore anyways, the exercise and weight loss on their own had made wonders. Even the patterns have changed. Yes I still get some rage episodes, but they're not as intense. I also feel down every now and then (which I didn't use to), get one day of obsessive thoughts and that's about it. My worst episode was about a month ago, I had an anxiety attack and honestly I just wanted to be sedated. I begged to be taken to A&E or something (obviously non of that happened) but I get with MH issues it's hard to know what to do. We now have agreed that if I ever get back to that state he has to take me to AE so I can get some actual medication. I actually don't think I've fully recovered from that episode. Overall I'm happier and think that with an action plan I can live with PMDD.

@revolution909

I didn't take anti-ds for years because my DH didn't agree with them.

Now I realise how controlling this is. Can you see him saying that to you is terrible?

You said he helps you make friends. Again that might be some kind of manipulation as they are his friends first so he keeps control. He does not encourage you to make your own friends.

That medication ultimatum was an eye opener for me. I agree he's very controlling and he's definitely manipulative to an extent. I do realise I give him more power than I should. Like yesterday he wanted to have breakfast at a cafe I said fine and was ready to just order some fruit, well because I was not having a full breakfast he was not having any. I honestly didn't even want breakfast but I thought the whole thing was kind of out of place.

@revolution909 I think it's great that you have 1:1 counseling in your future. I'm concerned that because he didn't allow you to take meds and works to keep you isolated, he'll try to do something to stop it. Please have your eyes wide open and keep on the look out for manipulations designed to keep you from getting helps and support.

I don't believe that couples counseling would be helpful, and I suspect it could actually make things much, much worse. It would help him get inside your head more than he already is, and he would most likely manipulate the counselor into thinking the problem is you. He is very, very good at what he is doing. Making you look like the crazy one is part of what he does.

You said, "I didn't find it (Why does he do that?) helpful because I felt I had been an abusive person too. And for general sanity I just didn't think that was the right path to go."

In sorting out who is abusive in the relationship, I think it might help to consider 2 questions:

1. In the end, who ends up getting what they want? It sounds like there is a lot of yelling and less than great behavior on both sides, but when the dust settles, who actually gets what they wanted in the first place? There are many examples on this thread of him getting what he wants, and you learning to be OK with it.

1. Who is taking concrete actions to grow as a person and treat others better? There are many examples in this thread of you working to manage your condition -- including seeking professional help, exercising, losing weight and looking into medication. You take full responsibility for your outburst and work to become a better person. It sounds like he just whines as a way to remove any sense of personal responsibility.

I think there may be more going on with him in addition to being abusive, controlling, and manipulative because you said that this behavior isn't directed just to you and the book didn't completely ring true to you. I think he might also have a personality disorder, such as narcissistic personality disorder.

Also, one last thing. The notion that he needs a shoulder to cry on about being chubby is complete BS. If he wanted to change, he would get off his butt and work out with you, help prepare healthy meals with you, and so on. Whining about something isn't the same as working to change it.

The last point is so true. He's asked for help to sort himself out but it always has to be in his terms. He even turned it around and got all upset because he said I wanted to be praised wtf??

From that moment I promised not to help him again, he simply does not deserve it.

He was actually thrilled that I was getting some counseling, he thought it was a great idea, but we'll see.

On a more positive note, we've finally found a way for me to get some sort of pet. He was a bit prissy about it but he agreed to it :).

That reminds me of the other thing that really annoys me.. He takes away all the joy (sometimes not always) by giving so many warnings of how things can go wrong, of how if I don't keep my word he'll get upset blah blah blah. I know I make him sound like a horrible guy, but I don't remember he used to be like this. We only dated for a year, so maybe I never got to see his true self.

@revolution909
I agree that it is very likely that he will find something wrong with your counselling. I think it will drive him mental to know you say stuff he can't hear. I would be amazed if he can tolerate it.

Please keep posting here. The more you get out into the open the better. I think he has been controlling you for so long you have forgotten what it is like to be in charge of your own life. And I agree. I think he 'stole' your bff to isolate you.