AIBU to think my husband loves his job more than us?

[HappyMum4]

Basically, DH has had this job for the last 5 nearly 6 years now, where he travels quite a bit, leaves early, back late, that kind of thing, sometimes weekends, his mobile never stops, and he never seems to be able to stop answering it or checking emails, which he even checks and replies to when he goes to the loo which I find repulsive. He goes abroad a few times a year, sometimes overnight, sometimes 5 days, sometimes longer. He has become significantly more "into" his job, and spends the majority of his time doing it, even when I think he should be giving us his time, it seems to be all he can think about, even to the point where he forgets things that mean a lot to us, his family - when the children have exams, he forgets to ask how they went, forgets names of their friends, forgets what they're doing and when, forgets when school finishes, or after school clubs which have been on the same night for many months, he forgets birthdays, Valentine's, Mother's Day, and now I discover he's forgotten our wedding anniversary which we had planned to celebrate, and he's booked a works event for that evening, he'll be back about midnight. He's away currently for 5 days, flew to the US, for a big sales event, at a huge luxury hotel, could have taken us but claimed it would have cost too much. He couldn't wait to go. And it's clear from the few conversations we've had he's having a ball. No sooner does he fly back from there, three days later he's away again, overnight, on a "team building" go karting-with-the-boys exercise, with a couple of meetings thrown in.
And it's things like he seems to come to life with work, especially when he's away, he just seems so happy and having such a good time, and when he's with us he's a grumpy bastard, total shitbag sometimes, shouts at us, a couple of weeks ago he lied to me about something, which I found out and approached him about, apologies profusely then the next day yells at me and says it's my fault he lied as I make such a fuss.
I'm thinking work means more to him than we do, but he says I'm not understanding, that he is spinning plates and can't remember everything and it's important to remember stuff re his job coz he doesn't want to lose it, says that I should be happy he's having a good time with his colleagues and if I went out with friends he would want me to have a good time. I gave up my job to raise the children and we've moved around so much because of his job, I don't have many friends. Am I being unfair and unreasonable like he says?

Maybe you're right WTAAF

OP you sound like you've reached a point of no return and good on you for starting to get a full 360 on things you'll potentially need to like family finances, financial position, any details of shares, bonds etc.

As utterly shit as this is it's almost ultimatum time:

Either he pulls his weight and shapes up (enabling you to have more freedom to either work or do some retraining to get you up to speed before re-entering the workforce)

OR

If you've had enough and it's evident he's checked out of family life and the marriage you'll need all your wits about you to execute a divorce.

Either way, this isn't a life.

I agree with WTAAF - I don't think rushing into finding a job is helpful strategically. I think it's about starting to live your own life and uncoupling yourself from his control and manipulation. Nothing wrong with thinking about and planning working in the future - but if you mean to divorce, keep that under your hat.

I wouldn't give this man an ultimatum - although it might bring things to a swift end because I think he is controlling and violent. As you say , HappyMum4 , you have every opportunity to crack on in his absence but for now I would try and keep your powder dry. I think he senses that change is afoot. Hopefully he is too selfish to pay any attention to it and will soon get distracted. This is definitely a cover up and plan situation, not a challenge and make ultimatums situation. I think you know you have a really nasty piece of work on your hands here. You must be absolutely furious with him.

HI OP, at your request, we're just moving this over to Relationships.

I'm glad this thread has moved. HappyMum take your time to come to terms with what you have realised. There is no set timetable for action. However, start to gather information about his income, family assets like the house and open a separate bank account that he doesn't know about so you've always got your own money if you need it.
You can be supportive of him when he is away as that now suits your purpose. Look after yourself and remember there is support here whatever you decide to do. It's your life and you can choose the options that work best for you.

I have quite a lot of spells of this too but no children at home as older. My H goes on tours and it's hard work but convivial, he doesn't get nearly enough make company normally as works at home, so when he does it's a bit full on. Like you I feel a bit left out at times like this. I think the big issueOP as others have said is that in a situation like this it really helps if you have a bit more going on in your life workwise, SAHP can make you very dependent on one adult for company unless you have a lot of friends. As you say a lot of men in particular get a buzz from the big swinging dick sales type bullshit and the conferences and the social side and prefer it to a more mundane family life, they often could balance it far better but actively choose not to. Many women put up with it as they like the time to themselves, have lots of other stuff going on or work themselves and they like the money, so I don't think he will change so it seems to me you either get a bit more in your life and make him less of a focus or you decide to single parent it, which can be hard too but different.

Words can't express my gratitude for all the advice and support you're all posting, it's giving me so much - first of all, and probably most important, the belief and knowledge now that the way he has been behaving is NOT ok, and that I have a point instead of being made to feel that my views on his behaviour were not normal, that I was the one being unreasonable.
It's giving me the ability to see things for how they really are, like putting on glasses when your eyesight has been so bad. I've been clinging on to some hope or possibility that (the classic expression) "things will change". But I am going to have to give myself a slap and realise "no. They won't. Ever." We've been together 18 years now, and I feel so so stupid for wasting so much time on something which I knew deep down wasn't what I wanted. The cycle of abuse is so interesting and accurate in my case. Since the bad FaceTime we had when he was worse for wear and I stupidly mentioned a few issues about him being away, doing go karting and climbing mountains at 6am, especially having just returned from abroad), and the conversation did NOT go well at all, so he's back now, and I'm getting the usual apologies, "for upsetting me", and he also asked me what I was thinking at one point and I said nothing (I say that a lot, coz if I tell him what I'm really thinking, it just kicks off, but you guys have shown me that actually, I'm wrong to do that, I should be able to talk to him, tell him my thoughts without fear of the outcome, I just thought I was avoiding conflict but I'm just making it easier for him and a lot harder for me), so after I said that he asked me if I was thinking "what am I doing with this loser?", and I probably should have said "yeah, something like that", but I said "don't be silly", coz I've fell into this trap before. He lures me to say stuff, I think I'm safe to express myself, so I agree with him then i get the yelling and the shouting and arguing, so I very aware of what I can say, when, and I shouldn't be living like this, it's like some sort of game where as long as I follow the rules, I'll get to the end but it's not a game of life, it's a game of existing. I do keep thinking of that phrase "this isn't living, it's just not dying", and I want to live, I wanted to do it with him, but it's not ok, the way he is with me, and it is getting worse. I know he knows what he's doing, and the way he's being.
I guess I wonder is he being like this because of the stress of the job, he's constantly telling me he feels pulled in two directions, me on one side, his job on the other, him obviously in the middle. I feel he likes to think of himself as a victim, so he can justify everything. When we started off, he had a very low paid, set hours job with overtime there if he wanted but only if. And it was good. Simple, no pressure of work. No mobile phone to answer, constantly check and deal with emails, I had him when he wasn't at work. It felt like there were times he wasn't at work. But we didn't have kids then. Then he became self employed, and we were more of a team, I helped him build the business, supported him, and it actually wasn't as stressful as I thought, we had moments but not like now. He didn't go away, and the hours were up to him, of course the more you put in, the better. But it felt like it benefitted us, our life, so we didn't mind. Then we started a family. Over those years, he was more committed to the family it felt, if I needed him it felt like he was there. Then an opportunity arose for him to work for the company he's with now, and he thought it would be financially sensible, and stable and more secure. And I think that's when it started going a lot wrong. That's when he started going away, here, abroad, late nights, early mornings, dedication to them and not us, the constant mobile phone pinging and ringing, and him checking immediately, dealing with it, no matter what time, where we were, and I feel he slipped away from us, me, the family. He says he has that much to do, to think about, he's spinning plates and his brain is fried. The temper definitely increased. The verocity of it increased. The shortness of it increased. That's why I know it's going to get worse not better. I've thought so much about this, you guys have shed a lot of light on it for me too.
I can't thank you enough.
Sorry for length of post

He's onto you. He knows your eyes are open. He knows what he has done. Breezy and casual is the way to go. And make the most of his absences.

Your last post feels very sad. For the disfunction in your family and the fact your DCs are missing out on a relationship with their father.

It maybe that the pressure of the job is part of the problem. However, he is using you as an emotional punchbag and that is never OK. Additionally, he may have been ok before because he felt in control but now he doesn't so he has become more controlling.
In the end it doesn't matter why he is doing it, what matters is what he is doing is harming you and you don't have to put up with it.

He's just come up to me now, hands round waist and said "you feel distant, please come back to me, I know you're upset with me, please let me in a little bit, I know it's been hard these last few days, but I'm so proud of you, what you do with the kids, but it feels like you and the kids are tight and I want back in", then he asked "do you still love me", and I'm panicking inside coz I genuinely don't know, and I'm thinking if I have to go one way or the other, I'm going to say no, so I say "that's a silly question", then he said "so why aren't you answering?", and I say "I would think you'd know", then he says "we'll do you", so I feel all I can say is "of course I do", then (and this is for me a turning point) I know there is more to come, more apologies, more emotional stuff, and in the past, I wanted to hear it, to believe it, to feel it, but I don't want to now. I'm thinking of the last few days, the look on his face after he's been with his colleagues, how genuinely happy he looks, the look on his face when he's had a few and I'm talking to him and trying to express my feelings and he calls me opinionated, and gets angry, I think of the lies that I know for a fact he's still telling me, the moment he said it was my fault he lied, the moment he said talk to me so I did and then he got very mad at me, and stormed out the house. So I distract him by saying the stupidest thing I could think at the time and I'm looking over his shoulder and spot a brush/dustpan set, the standy up type, and say "I didn't know we had one of those", and he turns around to look and starts talking about when we got it, where and that's it. Emotional stuff done. And I go, say I'm going to bathroom.
I think you're right kitty, he knows something is different. I'll continue to be as strong as possible though, God it helps so much to have you here.

Can you say you're feeling unwell? Under the weather? PMT? He knows he's gone too far. It's pathetic what he's doing now. What a manipulative bully. Keep strong xx

Be very very careful with your phone. Always use incognito browsing.

Also don't be nice to him. Brazen it out. 'I've told you the things i'm not happy about. The ball's in your court'. He's just panicking a bit.

Kitty, forgive my ignorance and I feel stupid asking, but what is incognito browsing?

How are you accessing mumsnet? Do you have the app? If so, you might want to hide th icon. If it's through a browser and you press the three dots in the top right corner, you can choose new incognito tab. Then your online activity doesn't show in your history. If it's an iPhone, I can't help, but someone will. You're not ignorant. Just encouraging you to cover your tracks.

HappyMum4
Just RTFL. You are doing so well. What you are coming to terms with is so hard but you've got this and it's going to get better.
Keep being courageous. Don't give him cause to be suspicious until you are sure of what you want.

When my dh had the work/life balance wrong I told him he wasn't investing enough time in me and his daughter.

His response (predictably) was that he was only doing it for me and our daughter. I was expecting that and was prepared. I asked him if he was honestly saying that if he didn't have me and our daughter he'd actually be working less as he had less to work for. I could see the lightbulb go off in his head, then raised and eyebrow, told hombre it wasn't good enough and walked off before I completely lost my shit with him!

If you have a iPhone go on Safari and press the two squares on the bottom right. The page will move back and you will see a private option on the bottom left.

I think you should be honest with him. Say you are just not sure anymore when he asks.

What do you want to happen? You are effectively a single parent at the moment so you would be able to cope if you divorced.

It's basically up to him to save this marriage. Personally I would tell him this and if nothing happened I'd be on to a solicitor.

How are you doing today HappyMum ?

Kitty, thank you so much for all the advice about incognito browsing, I never knew that!
I am feeling strong, my resolve is strong, he keep saying "I love you", and he feels "I'm struggling to come back from somewhere ", what's to know what is wrong.
I'll tell you more in a while, I've pretended to come to the bathroom to do this as he's been around all weekend and I wanted to share a couple of things xx

Maybe if he stopped working so hard and spent more time at home then eventually,,well,,he wouldnt have a job. The mortgage would fall behind. You'd have to downsize,maybe flog a car or two,cut back or skip any holidays etc etc... There is a lot of pressure on a man to provide for all his family.

You're so welcome and I'm so glad to hear you feel strong. Keep your eyes and ears open and see what happens when he drops his guard a bit.

Kitty, so I thought I'd take the bull by the horns and booked a horse riding trail thing for me and the kids on the day of the "forgotten anniversary", primarily because I don't want to sit feeling sad, thought it would be a good distraction. It's what I love to do most, I'm not a horsey person per se, but I have always had a passion for it, and tried to do it at any oppprtunity. So I told him I've booked it, and then he responded by telling me he's booked a lunch for us that day, I said I thought he was working all day and all night. He said he was going to work from home until lunch then take us out, bring us back and he would go off to the event he's arranged until about midnight. So he wants me to cancel the riding. And I'm thinking "I don't want to", it was nice to book the lunch and he was trying to make it a surprise but I don't want to feel pencilled in between work appts. So I am going to keep with the trip I've booked. Or do you think I should try and rearrange and that he's making an effort?
Also, it was a bit weird, but I woke up about 3am to find him staring at me. He said he was watching me sleep. He's never done that before. Ever. Is that nice? Or a bit odd? I used to think of it as a nice thing, but at the minute I'm just not sure what it means?

I would just breezily say "Oh , I've booked the horse riding now. We can do the lunch another day."

Depends a bit on how you think he will react though - will he get aggressive?