Porn - don't know how to feel

[Mum157]

So, I've just looked at the history on my husband's iPad (I know I shouldn't have!) and it shows that he was looking at a porn site last night. The only time I can think that he was doing that was when he was sorting out the BBQ and I was upstairs having a bath.

Husband has a higher sex drive then me and I know that he likes porn, but I've never really thought about him watching it much..... and certainly not when I'm just upstairs having a bath! He must of just been watching it for a bit and not 'acted on it', so to speak....

I don't have a problem with porn per se, it just looked like really cheap crap stuff. And I think that it probably creates unrealistic expectations for men to have about their partners bodies and sexual behaviour.

I don't really know how I feel about it (and I know I'm rambling); I feel a bit disappointed and yucky, but also aware that he hasn't done anything wrong and he adores me, so I probably shouldn't give it another minute's thought.

What are other people's experiences? Thoughts?

TIA x

Fair enough.

And I don't see that objectification of women in porn is much different to mainstream culture.
Says a lot about mainstream culture. I don't think objectification of women is ok anywhere, do you?

Even discussing what happened to her here goes some way to achieving what her abuser wanted: the complete loss of her privacy and autonomy. It's hard to remember she's a real person, not just a pixellated image designed to stimulate unnumbered anonymous men to orgasm. It's horrible.

"Against this background, and in the absence of any 'ethical' guarantee, I choose not to watch any of it. For me, just one publicly shared rape is one too many. Don't you feel the same?"

This.

Girlywurly Threesomes, etc are in my experience completely different because they're unmediated human-to-human (...to-human grin) contacts in which you can check in with the other person (people) that they're ok.

But if her partner is abusive and has coerced her into this, then her saying she is OK is not going to be any guarantee. If she is a great enough actress to give nothing away of the non-consentuality of this, such an OK might prove nothing.

I suppose ultimately these sorts of things just come down to what you are comfortable with. If it all looks consensual then I am comfortable. I would be in a threesome or swinging context, where if I am wrong then I guess that would mean that I would end up involved in the harm of someone. In an amateur couple porn context there isn't really going to be anything in my actions that causes any actual harm to someone outside the room, in case of What If. There is a bit of a "safety net" there.

Although don't get me wrong, it would be sad and unfortunate wherever it happened. And the next person is entirely free to boycott everything if that is what their comfort levels require.

"If it all looks consensual then I am comfortable"

Yep. Man.....wank.... nothing can get between one and the other.

Christ, this is depressing.u

Surely you realise JAPAB that what you actually see in porn is a very carefully edited version of reality. You don't see the woman giving herself an enema beforehand, or the man injecting his penis with dangerous performance-enhancing drugs, but nonetheless that's what often happens. You don't see the anal fissures or other tissue damage that the woman is left to cope with or the lifelong erectile dysfunction that some male porn actors have suffered as a result of the drugs they were required to take. And yes, issues of consent are also edited out.

Real life sex is different, because you're there for the build-up and the aftermath. You're actually in a position to make an informed decision about the wellbeing of your partners. I'm surprised you can't see that.

In an amateur couple porn context there isn't really going to be anything in my actions that causes any actual harm to someone outside the room, in case of What If. There is a bit of a "safety net" there.

A safety net for who? For you, so you can continue wanking to this stuff without feeling bad about yourself? Or a safety net for the women who appear in these films?

And by the way, when you watch a woman being sexually abused that is 'actual harm', regardless of whether or not you're in the room.

Although don't get me wrong, it would be sad and unfortunate wherever it happened.

Don't you get it? You're not a bystander in this. This stuff is being produced for YOU.

And the rape and sexual humiliation of women is not 'unfortunate' it's a deliberately choice.

Girlywurly Real life sex is different, because you're there for the build-up and the aftermath. You're actually in a position to make an informed decision about the wellbeing of your partners. I'm surprised you can't see that.

I could only really do that if I was a fly on the wall during the other, or all the other couples discussions on doing this. Plus I'd probably have to hang around for a lot longer to get a real feel for their relationship and its dynamics and whether he is abusive controlling etc.

You are the one who likes to speculate and talk about having no guarantees. Nothing you say here would entitle you to make a claim of having a 100% guarantee while having a threesome with a couple, or spending an evening at a Soho swingers club.

A safety net for who? For you, so you can continue wanking to this stuff without feeling bad about yourself?

People who swing or have threesomes are taking the risk of directly causing a significant amount of harm to someone. This is not the case if anonymously watching an amateur couple clip. The "harm footprint" is lower (if not zero) there. That is what I meant by safety net.

JABAB, you want to convince yourself that refusing porn is the same as refusing sex, as clearly that would be completely unreasonable and impractical. This belief absolves you of any responsibility for your porn use and the harm it does, which is just kind of inevitable...

After Girly's post, about finding rape porn in mainstream sites, someone asked if it was real or not, does this really matter?
I know it makes a difference when it comes to consent (assuming this is ethical porn), but the end result is men turned on by a rape scene . I have to say I would question anyone , man or woman, who thinks it's ok to be turned on by this, and if I thought dh was watching this kind of thing, he'd soon be an ex.

I can have an active and exciting sex life without porn

In fact, I'd say a better one!

For me, just because it's easily accessible doesn't make it any more right, you can access rape, torture, you name it, usually done to the female by male; actual horrible way to find out about sex I'd say.

Use your imagination, read exotic books; I feel sad for any young person who looks online at these horrible vids thinking this is real life sex.

So no I don't have any interest in being part of something where a female is being abused, coerced, humiliated etc, because nobody actually knows if there is 100% consent going on or actually none at all.

Agree, Adora. It's not about being anti-sex, it's about being anti-violence.

JABAB, you want to convince yourself that refusing porn is the same as refusing sex, as clearly that would be completely unreasonable and impractical.

It is all relative, isn't it. For the record I too can "have an active and exciting sex life without porn" but good sex (or any sex at all) is not something all of us have on tap throughout all periods of our lives. It is all well and good that actually having sex might ne better, but sex doesn't grow on trees.

In a sense it might be more unreasonable to tell someone who is not getting any sex at all, and for whom this has been going on a while, to cut themselves off from what for them is as good as it gets, than it might be to tell the person who has a lot of sex generally to turn down a threesome or a swingers party, because, you know, What If. All relative.

Still an interesting argument. You can happily have your threesomes and swing because the importance of actual sex outweighs the risks of greater harms that you are taking. Tet the person who thinks it is OK to watch porn if doing so in a zero (or as near as) harm way, is the one trying to convince themselves of things.

Well you stick to your actual risking of a direct and significant harm, and I'll stick to my, if not zero, then very low risk activities until if and when this drought period ends :)

I think JAPAB's posts on this clearly demonstrate how men's views on some things should be considered utterly irrelevant in deciding how to tackle issues that contribute to the oppression of women.

He couldn't give less of a shit because it doesn't have any chance of affecting him in any real way, and he doesn't even try to hide that fact. Though he's totally up for trying to convince you to collude in your own oppression. I do wonder why. If women stop objecting to it he can completely rid himself of some speck of guilt he feels? It's just a fun challenge to debate this topic? Who knows, who cares.

FWIW, I have gone through long periods of involuntary abstinence. And it wasn't easy to cut porn out of my life, because I had really, really enjoyed watching it. But it was worth it to try because I want to be in charge of my sexuality, not just helplessly allowing it to control me.

Going without sex is hard. I know. I've been there. But no one has a right to sex, especially when it's harming someone else.

Being horny and alone does not make it ok to exploit women for your gratification.

Jap, you have a brain, you could always use your imagination instead of taking any risk at all? Or a good erotic book? My choice above any questionable vid but each to their own, if you are not bothered ethically then you're ok.

Sorry - meant involuntary celibacy.

Agree with much of what you say, Dixie. Except if men can't be persuaded to give up porn, then the abuses discussed in this thread will continue. The problem is (mainly) with men, and so the solution must be too. Although JAPAB's posts do not fill me with optimism....

Adora, it's kind of ironic that, in general, men find it much easier to orgasm than women, and yet...

Adora10, why not use imagination rather than actually having sex? Never have a ONS with an unknown female and never risk exploiting someone with self-esteem issues say; never have a threesome or swing and won't take the risk that has been gone over; never have sex and never risk an unplanned pregnancy with it's potential harms and deteriments, etc etc.

I think the answer to that is that for some people imagination alone doesn't quite cut it. They can't make themselves find it satisfactory in place of a visual anymore than they can in place of actual sex. Just the way some people are wired.

I'm a woman. My views are probably more inline with JAPAB. I think the gender of the person who holds the views might be less relevant here? I'm also a sometime consumer of porn.

Except if men can't be persuaded to give up porn, then the abuses discussed in this thread will continue. The problem is (mainly) with men, and so the solution must be too. Although JAPAB's posts do not fill me with optimism....

Abstinence is never going to happen. Best you can hope for is to persuade people to do things in safer way, just as long as they can keep doing them.

I would only defend watching amateur stuff, or if something professionally made, then a free sample. If everyone did that the industry would probably shut down, but there would be plenty to watch from what has already been made. And of course, none of those abuses that can happen in the pro sector would happen anymore.

I honestly thing that pragmatically something like this is the very best people who are anti-porn can hope for.

No JAP, use your head or book instead of watching a dodgy video, that's all I said, I never once said replace having real sex with your head, c'mon now stick to what I actually said, you're off on another tangent.

I get it, for some, their imagination or erotic literature is not enough, they want the real sex on camera, fine, carry on, I sure won't.

JABAB, you're setting up a straw man argument. No one is suggesting you must do the following:

Never have a ONS with an unknown female and never risk exploiting someone with self-esteem issues say; never have a threesome or swing and won't take the risk that has been gone over; never have sex and never risk an unplanned pregnancy with it's potential harms and deteriments, etc etc.

Of course any sexual activity entails a risk of harm, but that's why you take proactive steps to minimise these: you chat with someone before shagging them to get a sense of where they are emotionally, you get tested for STIs, and use contraception. What you're proposing is quite different: mindlessly consuming the products of an industry in which abuse is known to be prevalent. This is an industry in which even established career actresses claim to have been anally raped until they required stitches, punched in the face during intercourse and raped with glass bottles (see James Deen allegations). The comparison you make is frankly heartless and insulting. You should be ashamed of it.

Abstinence is never going to happen.

That's a counsel of despair. And factually incorrect. Many thousands of men swear off porn every year. Look up 'nofap' if you're interested. I've given it up, why can't you?
It's a mentality of entitlement which says it not possible.

Abstinence is never going to happen
Still don't get it. Asking someone not to look at porn isn't asking them not to wank. Seems from the sounds of the argument going on here that someone sees the two as being inseparable. Pretty sad if you need porn to get yourself off.