Affair/separation - DH has asked me to leave. Do I go?

[runningLou]

To avoid drip feeding will not spare the details.
Unhappily married. I was caught cheating 4 years ago. Tried to mend everything for sake of kids. Didn't work, both very unhappy and with MH issues.
I recently met someone. Told DH I wanted to separate. We had discussed 'bird-nesting' with me staying over some nights to be with DC overnight. We want to keep the family home for the kids if possible.
DH has said tonight he wants me out. Every night, and basically told me I had made my choice and to move in with OM.
Don't want to do this - too soon, bad for kids, bad for everyone, I think.
Also I do not want to be the Mummy that leaves, and that is what it will look like to them.
Can I persist in staying? Am I right that me leaving and taking all my stuff (DH wants it gone) will be more distressing for kids?
Financially could just about manage to rent a room somewhere nearby so thinking of doing this. My idea is to come in every morning to do their breakfast, and stay every night till after bedtime. This is what we have been doing the past couple of weeks since we first talked and it has worked ok ... I thought.
House is in joint names, as are all savings.

Why should you have it both ways? I can imagine a man writing your post would've been absolutely flamed. You've no care then that your H must be feeling like shit, has to deal with the cause of all this (you) being around him daily, and should be allowed time and space to grieve and re-adjust?

Leave and go to your new man. After all you're not going to inconvenience him or yourself by taking the DCS with you, are you?

poor bloke

Anyone with half a brain can see the hypocrisy exposed in this thread and the blatant sexism that runs right through some posters. It's also noticeable how the many of the usual suspects who jump all over a thread shouting LTB aren't on this one.

My god, this man knows how to throw a party

And puts so much thought into his gifts, AntiGrinch

I was sexually neutral above - a lawyer would say to both of them stay put in the house, you have a legal right to be there. A divorce will sort out which of them can buy the other out and if the house has to be sold.

Absolutely.

The affair and any other relationship issues is between the parents.

The children have equal rights to both parents. They shouldn't be used as punishment by either.

OP if you are still reading - important to separate the two. You and your OH deal with the fallout of your relationship. The children should be kept out of it and shown that they are loved by both.

I'd say this regardless of which parent had the affair. Not relevant to the care of the children.

The double standards on MN are incredible. If a MNer was posting that her husband had had an affair, had a new partner, was insisting on staying in the house which was causing her stress/MH problems then everyone would be jumping up and down sing he should leave, throw him out etc.

The OP is having an affair, her husband has to live with her in the house knowing that she's shagging someone else. That is awful for him. She should move out. Hopefully he will them start to feel less stressed which will be better for the children.

Not least because the DCS will see and sense the palpable unhappiness between their parents. Not conducive to a good family environment for them.

Out & about and shagging away with your boyfriend then going back home, and using being a mother as a way to justify your right to rub H's nose in it? I don't know how he can stand the sight and presence of you. Sort out your divorce and financial details away from the home

After all its your H that will have care of the kids once you go off with new man - not you. You won't be there so why the facade now? Likely due to convenience. You need to inconvenience yourself.+ go be with Mr New.

I hope in time to come you're not expecting to (conveniently) see the DCS at the family home. As opposed to taking them out and taking them to yours

The problem is that you want the family home and the family life style while being unfaithful.

Unless you can buy him out or he can buy you out, maybe you should look to selling he family home and splitting all assets so that you can both do your own thing? You're not a family now and it makes no sense to eek out this unsuccessful living arrangement.

How much equity and savings do you have?

How old are the children?

I'd normally say that the main caregiver should stay in the home with the kids, but given these circumstances the bloke has been shafted in all directions if this happens.
Sell up and getting two homes for the kids sounds the best solution, if finances allow.

What the op is proposing is not fair at all. The DH needs space to grieve and move on. He can't do that if she is around all the time any of the time and the atmosphere would be horrible for the kids.

I can't see why she can't pick them up after school then return them when DH gets home from work and weekends etc. Or he moves out but is given very generous access. What is really best for the kids?

We had to live together for the 7 months the divorce took. Lots of people do. If you move out you often regarded as housed and the status quo then becomes the other parent has the chidlren and it is hard to change a status quo in childcare proceedings. They are both going to have to put up with it.

For all we know the husband might have 4 lovers or be dreadful. This is why there is only one ground for divorce -that the marriage has broken down in English and she can show that through her husband's unreasonable behaviour which I am sure she can find.

If you move out you often regarded as housed and the status quo then becomes the other parent has the chidlren and it is hard to change a status quo in childcare proceedings

You see, that is the problem. I agree that it must be horrible for the husband and if it weren't for this principle I would agree that OP should move out.

It's not necessarily the reason for the split which hurts the children, but the way in which the split occurs.

So for instance the OP has had an affair but what is relevant is that she potentially wants to continue the relationship with the OM from the outset. When the children get older they will realise that their mum left their dad for someone else, but right now all they might realise is that their parents were together one minute and next thing they knew their mum had left, moved in with someone else and expected them to play happy families with a new daddy. Leaving because you've fallen out of love can be just as damaging to the children if you don't handle it correctly, and yet Mumsnet would support anyone's right to do that.

Affairs are wrong and obviously I am not saying that the OP having had two affairs is ok, it's not. But the affair has happened, it's what happens now that is the important thing with regards to their children.

We don't know that the OP has contributed to her husband's mental illness, that is all speculation on her part. But his insistence that she leave and indeed people's insistence that because she had the affair she should get out is all to do about self projection and takes no account of what is in the children's interests.

If the OP leaves and goes straight to the OM then there is every chance that the children are going to resent that and feel that they've been abandoned. But if the father kicks her out into a one bedroom flat and limits access to the children for whom she's been a primary carer all their lives then the chances are that it's the father they will resent for throwing their mum out, regardless of his reasons for doing so.

When me and my ex split the affair was long over. We both had to stay in the family home to allow time to sort out the finances. I didn't see or speak to the OM again after that. I didn't seek to be with anyone else either. Yet my ex was on dating sites more or less from day one. Had a brief relationship with a married woman. I came home from a weekend away to find condom boxes in the bathroom bin so no prizes for guessing what he'd been doing while we weren't there.

After I moved out he entered into a long term relationship with the first woman he met online. Moved her and her children in after a couple of months, went on family holidays and suddenly she and her children were considered his family while his own children were left confused. He had more children with his new girlfriend within a year. His own children have almost nothing to do with him now and have no relationship with their siblings because of it.

But do keep believing that it's because of the affair that everything ended and that only the affair damages everyone. Regardless of what went on before or after it was all because of the affair. Life just isn't that straightforward.

Lovely set of double standards. Op, you need to move out and carry on seeing your kids. You had the affair. You need to leave. Leave your poor husband alone to get over what you've done to him. Either way one of you needs to move out and in my opinion it should be you. No need to make it hard on the children. Be honest with them. Tell them you still love them and will see them all the time but you won't be living in the house anymore.

There's no way this set up is great for the DCs. It's not justifiable to be in a relationship with someone else, yet want to remain beside your ex and father of your DCS, if he doesn't want that. There are better ways to organise time with DCs.& OP says she can afford to move out. Why not do that whilst divorce and finances are sorted? I do expect there to be bias on a womens' Internet board. This one is a bit blatant however and isn't about what's best for the DCS at all. It's about a woman's right trumping a man's right. Yet they're both parents

Of course OP your H could leave. Then you'd have your home and DCs. Might put brakes on your new relationship in terms of your time and availability tho eh

(Meant to add doesn't New Man have his own place...)

Agreed @GutInstinct

Relationship breakdown - one issue

Children - another issue.

It feels like some posters almost want the mother to be forced away from them just to spite her - because she had an affair. This offers little regard to how the children feel without their mum.

Yes - she had an affair. But yes - she is also their mum - and it sounds like she's been a good mum.

How can the children possibly benefit from not having their mum around?

Having an affair doesn't equal being an Unfit parent.

They are entitled to mum and dad. In whatever capacity that occurs. It can be handled in a sensitive / reasonable manner.

It's an emotive topic - and any emotion from other posters is pure projection. (I include myself in that of course) - it's the facts and the children that matter now - how to move forward.

This is not double standards, but different standards held by different posters. I have posted on other threads where it's the H who had sex outside the marriage, pointing out that you cannot force anyone to leave their home because of an affair eg change the locks or order them to go. (A cour order can be obtained to force the sale of the house against one partner's wishes, but this takes time).

It's silly and unfair to ignore the huge weight of social and cultural pressure regarding marriage, childcare, custody etc, which has been weighted for centuries in favour of men, in a structure where both women and children were the property of men. While there are, these days, various reasons for people having affairs, men are still more likely to have sex elsewhere even if the marriage is OK (some men have a big madonna/whore complex so once there are kids, the man can't get it up for the childminder/household appliance and goes off chasing other women; other men simply see no reason why they shouldn't have whatever they want). Women are generally more likely to have affairs as a way out of an awful relationship: if the H has made the wife feel ugly, frumpy, ignored, belittled etc and basically ignored her for a long time, meeting someone else will encourage her to leave.

Women are generally more likely to have affairs as a way out of an awful relationship

Actually, I'd disagree with this. The Cheaters Script with men is that when he says 'I'm not in love any more" or even "im not sure how I feel about us anymore" means that he has someone waiting in the wings.

99/100 there is OW lurking, it may take months for the truth to come out, but out it comes eventually.

Women are FAR more likely to leave/separate without an OM in the background.

The children need stability, yes, but that means staying where they are, and staying with dad is just as good as staying with mum.

When my dad cheated on my mum and left, the loss was devastating. It is devastating whatever happens, but the person who has been cheated on needs the space to grieve their marriage, and heal with the kids.

She could have chosen to talk, to mediate to counsel, but she didn't. On any of the occasions she could have done, she chose to lie to her H, to her kids and cheat.

It's VITAL that the kids learn the age appropriate truth.

there is absolutely no meaning to an accusation of "double standards" in any particular situation where the societal experiences of women and men in relation to families are so incredibly different.

I have had two pregnancies, gave birth twice, and breastfed two babies. Now I have two children. My ex also has two children - the same two children - and hasn't had any pregnancies, given birth at all, or ever breastfed. Yet he still has two children. After the first, when we discussed a second, was I bellowing DOUBLE STANDARD because the discussion took place on the assumption that I would be the one doing all those things again? Did I go "well you can forget about having a second child if you utterly refuse to get pregnant, because it's a DOUBLE STANDARD. Fine for me to do it, apparently, but not you!" No, I did not, because that would have been mental.

The physical processes of having babies are extreme and physically determined examples, but society treats men and women very differently, in many ways - especially once they become parents; and as a result, they behave very differently.

The children need stability, yes, but that means staying where they are, and staying with dad is just as good as staying with mum.

And staying with their mum is just as good as staying with dad. The affair is irrelevant to their needs. Whichever parent it is.

You say you felt a sense of loss when your mum left - and that is exactly my point! Neither parent, regardless of affair, needs to leave the children. You shouldn't have had to go through that sense of loss.

The dad in the original post will be grieving and devastated - of course he will and will need friends and family around for support.

But equally the children shouldn't have to feel this same sense of loss! She's leaving him, not her children.

One of them needs to leave and set up a home somewhere else. The children can go between the two homes. I don't hold with the view that 'she cheated so she must leave'.

That's certainly one option. But not the only one.

As I said before - the affair is between the adults. It's not something for the children to be brought into. It's not their problem!

Next step is how to ensure the children feel as little of the fallout as possible. Regardless of reason for split.

The children are not a weapon to be held against one of the parents. It's rubbish parenting if they are.

The double standards in this thread are breathtaking.

Women are generally more likely to have affairs as a way out of an awful relationship

Of course - nothing to do with just wanting sex with other men at all. And men who cheat are never in awful, depressing relationships - that's why it's so much more excusable when women cheat than men (or so Mumsnet teaches us).

I think she should leave because she's openly in a relationship with someone else. As plain and simple as that. Whether it was an affair or not - there's another partner there. There's nothing in the story which makes me think she can't see/won't have access to the DCs if she leaves. If it really is the DCs that matter then 2 homes is the answer. Not a triangular relationship situ where it's certain at least 2 of the adults are unhappy and that will impact negatively on the DCS anyway. Or alternatively, stay in the home with the DCS let the H leave. If that's convenient of course. I'm not sure from this story that it would be deemed so.

I have to be honest, I can't see anywhere where it says a mum having an affair is in any better place than a man.

I can see people saying there is always more to the story than that - and I think that's a fair assumption.

You can't possibly tell the full story in a couple of mumsnet posts. There will be rights and wrongs on both sides. Regardless of gender OR who had the affair.

Kids don't need to know about it. It's a grown up problem.