Affair - lover has died

[Question4Yall]

NB: This is for a friend - genuinely. The friend is not a 'friend' aka Me, promise. Name changed because I am a prolific regular and don't want any chance of my friend being outed.

She has been seeing a married man for 7 years. He pretty much led a double life. With my friend during the week (works away from home) and at home with wife and 2 kids at weekends. Wife has no idea.

He died at the weekend. Stroke. He was 49 years old and it was completely out of the blue. My friend found out through one of her lover's friends. She is obviously devastated.

I know the situation is horribly fucked up and I have had my opinions about their deceitful situation over the years, believe me. But the question now is - should my friend stay away from his funeral? She is thinking that she must and I am inclined to agree. But what should she do? Would it be horrendous for her to visit his grave, for example?

She is in absolute bits and I feel quite desperate for her. She has behaved atrociously, as did he. But now he is dead and she has no 'rights' to grieve him. I have no clue what to say to her.

What would you advise?

Just to be clear, she has no intention of telling the wife, kids etc or making any sort of scene.

How anyone things this thread is identifying..hilarious! Millions of people in the world and plenty die every day. Pfft

Anyway. To the matter in hand. Your friend must stay away. Nothing to do with her at all. She needs bereavement counselling and support but must not under any circumstances involve herself in any proceedings.

Those poor children.

Put yourself in the shoes of his wife and give your advice based on that.

Life is very rarely black and white. An affair which went on for seven years is more than just a general affair - whether people want to acknowledge it or not it was a relationship and there will have been real feelings involved. We cannot possibly know how that came about or what the parties in question (including the wife) would say/do. We also cannot possibly know that the wife lived in innocent oblivion for seven years - in fact I'd say that it's highly unlikely that she didn't know, and that if it was an arranged marriage which both parties entered into some years ago it's possible they stayed in that marriage while conducting their own lives.

The other woman has obviously already made her decisions so the rights or wrongs of her going to the funeral are no longer relevant here. But for her this relationship was real and this loss is real and whether the black and white thinkers of MN agree or not she has a right to grieve a seven year relationship which none of us knew anything about.

FWIW my ex MIL had an aunt who was the OW for over 40 years. He wanted to leave his wife but she threatened to kill herself and her children if he did (a fact later confirmed by his children,) they in fact accepted her after their mother died and the relationship continued. However she did have a child by him which the children didn't know was his, so when he eventually died her daughter could not attend his funeral - which was sad all round. I find it very sad that in these situations people never live their lives in full relationships, and that often includes the wives, and I wonder how they learn to live with that. But it's just not as simple as the kind of affair that someone finds through a discover of a one night stand or a series of texts on the mobile phone - there must be some very messed up dynamics in relationships at play for a seven (or more) year affair to carry on and be accepted as the norm.

He lived two lives, and is essentially two people.

The funeral is for the man he was publicly, who your friend didnt really know at all.
Your friend arranging a small ceremony for the man she knew when they were together is probably best for everyone.

Roundaboutthetown, that was unnecessarily rude. People may or may not talk to her. I've been to a fair number of funerals in a few different countries and they are not a meet and greet. Unless they are from a very small town there will be people who the bereaved haven't met before, particularly as the husband was away during the weeks.

I agree with BlueandGreenand. Whether posters here want to acknowledge it or not, they do not own their husbands, much as they think they do. People are individuals in their own right and sometimes they make choices that their partners a) know nothing about and b) would not like. As usual, it's the same slating of the OW without equal judgement on the other person involved, the husband.

It's perfectly possible for the lover to attend the funeral without drawing attention to herself and they have the 'right' to attend if they want to, it's a public occasion presumably. If I were the lover, I wouldn't go - not for the wife/children's sake but because I know I wouldn't be able to cope with it.

This man and your friend must have loved each other over a 7-year relationship and whatever the rights and wrongs of the relationship, he chose to have one with her as much as she did with him. I don't agree with the 'morals' argument that so many use to support their own judgemental attitudes.

I like StormTreader's idea of a small ceremony for your friend. He's no longer here now and she needs to say her own 'goodbyes'.

Question, it depends whether you can put aside your own personal feelings on this relationship to support your friend because she'll need it.

lizzieoak - only in your weird little world would absolutely nobody talk to the strange, sad looking woman at the funeral that nobody knows.

Apparently only in your strange weird little world do you know every person who's at a funeral. I certainly didn't at either of my parents' funerals.
Unnecessarily rude and wrong to boot.

"He lived two lives, and is essentially two people." TBH I think that in relationships where one partner lives away from home this is really, really common. Not necessarily in terms of living the double life and having two homes etc, but in terms of e.g. Having friends, a lifestyle etc that the family at home know very little about. As such I would imagine that a stranger wouldn't come as a surprise to the family as it could easily be perceived a someone from work. In fact it's likely that colleagues from work would attend the funeral and that they would recognise the OW over the wife anyway and as such she could blend in if she'd so wanted.

But I would say that WRT him being able to live an actual double life for seven years that it's highly unlikely that the marriage at home was all wine and roses and that the wife very likely knew either that he was likely to have someone else or that the marriage was in name only. Otherwise how would you be able to explain having nothing to do with your partner during the week to the extent that they were able to live a double life undetected?

Otherwise how would you be able to explain having nothing to do with your partner during the week to the extent that they were able to live a double life undetected?

It says in the OP that he worked away from home during the week.

Lots of people do that - wife and kids in a nice house in the country while they work in London during the week and commute to the family home for the weekend. Presumably not all of these people feel the need to have another woman (or man) for the weekdays but those who do very often get away with it for years and years - same as in the OP.

Maybe the wife did have suspicions but there's no need to confirm them now, she's dealing with her own grief and that of her children.

Anyway, it's a moot point now as the OP's friend says she's not going. I hope she doesn't change her mind as I think she'd find it a very difficult experience. Even if nobody bats an eyelid at her being there, his wife and children will be the ones getting the sympathy whilst she goes unacknowledged; I suspect that would be hard for her to deal with.

Surely the wife will find the evidence? Then the children find out, and their trust will be broken and their future relationships damaged before they've even begun.
sad

The wife will find out and she won't even be able to ask her husband questions because he's lucky enough to be dead and will never ever have to face what he did. The fallout from this will all be on the wife and children to deal with at what is already a time of heartbreak.

My housekeeper didn't know her husband was living a double life till a woman and 3 children turned up at his funeral. His work meant he was away from home for long periods of time. Fifteen years later she's still scarred by it. And as for the poster who referred to the older lady - pls don't give your experience as an acampke of how 'it' should be done. You were cheated on. You did not go to a graveside and find another woman at your husbands grave. There is absolutely no comparison between what the older lady went through and what you do.

As for - it doesn't define me. That's nothing more than psychobabble claptrap and is best ignored.

StrangeLookingParasite - where on earth have I said that anyone knows everyone at a funeral?... What I said was weird was the idea of absolutely nobody talking to them at the funeral. To suggest to someone who has every reason not to want even the smallest possibility of causing a scene at a funeral that it will be fine to go, because nobody will talk to them, is really silly advice imvho - she has no idea who knows what about her existence, as she avoided his family for years for obvious reasons, and a funeral is not the place to find out. Someone is at the very least going to ask her how she knew the deceased. She will be lucky if that is the only question she gets from any of the guests or members of the family.

Apologies, though, lizzieoak - my post did come across as unnecessarily rude, looking back on it!

I think your friend has made the right decision OP.

DP's best friend died 7 years ago in a tragic freak accident, a couple of days later he received telephone call from a woman who his friend had been having an affair with. DP had no idea this had been happening and it really upset him, the OW wanted DP to pretend to be a mutual friend so she could attend the funeral with us!

DP was horrified and told her it was completely inappropriate and he would not collude in such a lie to any of his friends devastated family. She had somehow got DP's telephone number from a colleague of the deceased friend. She then asked for a copy of the order of service from the funeral but again DP refused as it was very personalised with several family photographs of friend with his wife and children.

Even to this day DP feels guilty when he has any communication with friends widow, it made his own grief more complicated as he felt there was a totally secret side to his best friend that he didn't recognise at all.

I was going to name change for this but I knew Id be accused of being a troll so .....

But I would say that WRT him being able to live an actual double life for seven years that it's highly unlikely that the marriage at home was all wine and roses and that the wife very likely knew either that he was likely to have someone else or that the marriage was in name only. Otherwise how would you be able to explain having nothing to do with your partner during the week to the extent that they were able to live a double life undetected?

The reality is that you have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to what goes on in the 'other life' of these psychopaths who are living a double life. And thats what these people are. They're psychopaths who get off on the thrill of having two lives running secretly alongside each other. They get off on the thrill of it all, not the actual thrill of the people they're involved with. There's no genuine feeling for anyone in their lives, children included, because these people just aren't capable of genuine feelings. Its all an act. Not that people realise there are no genuine feelings involved because these men can make you feel like the most loved person in the world - even when they have another family hidden away somewhere. Its the thrill of the lies, the mind games, getting one or two or three over on people. Its just one big game to them and everyone involved in it is nothing more than an extra in their play.

I wont go into details about my personal story because I can no longer be bothered speaking about it but suffice to say - it would leave you under no illusion whatsoever that your family weaved a story around your aunt and her lover in order to make an absolutely sordid situation palatable to all who knew her.

The reality is that anyone who can live a double is not normal. They have a well hidden personality disorder that can go undetected for decades. Im one of the lucky ones though, I found something out, something absolutely tiny, but it was enough to make me curious and as a result I was able to take control of the situation me and my children and my grandchildren were in.

4 years later me and mine have put together happy new lives for ourselves though the heartbreak of what went on will always be with us. And what of my husband? Well, he's with the other family but Im still his wife because he wont divorce me. Did I threatened to kill myself? Absolutely no way. He wont divorce me because as far as he's concerned Ive done nothing to deserve it. He says I was a fabulous wife, lover, mother, and it was all his fault. Isn't that lovely? No its not. He's a psychopath and its only said to make him look better. Just as someone else not leaving a wife who was supposedly threatening to commit suicide made him look better.

Why dont I divorce him? Its very simple. He's had enough of my life and at 60 there is absolutely no way Im spending the next 5 years or more in court room going through what divorcing him in an international setting would entail. Plus, Im not interested in meeting anyone else. Im happy on my own.

It took 8 months for my husband to go to his other family after I said he had to leave, 8 months of lying they existed, 8 months of declaring undying love for me and mine, 8 months of nonsense. Eight months of me reminding myself every time he tried to turn the situation around that I had to be strong and not fall for it all, even though I wanted to, because what Id learned about his mind in those 8 months made it very clear he was a psychopath.

Again, people who do these things, and its generally men, are not normal, and unless you've lived it personally, not as the aunt of someone, or the cousin, or the sister, you have absolutely no idea of it at all.

Tbh I think she needs to stay away from the grave too - no laying flowers. It would be awful if the wife or children found them and they are likely to notice flowers from a stranger.
I am sorry for your friend, she has wasted 7 years of her life, but the wife has wasted even more years on this duplicitous shit. At least the ow knew the truth about her own life. Everyone needs to think of the widow.

MrsPeelyWally, respectfully, if somebody is cheating on their marriage then all is NOT well in it. If it was, there would be nothing for the cheater to gain and everything for them to lose. Assuming (rightly) that the cheater is only looking out for themselves, it's reasonable to surmise that their own selfish wants and needs are at the forefront. At no point is the cheater right in what they're doing but this assumption that everything's fine in a marriage is just one person's opinion - and it's not the cheater. The only time a cheater says that everything was 'fine' is when they are trying to back-pedal from their cheating.

It's not only children who have things 'made palatable' for them.

I don't know Lying. I think some people cheat just because they can, without necessarily being unhappy on their relationship. In some people's heads they think they are entitled to the extra sex/fun/ attention and if the spouse doesn't know then they aren't being hurt.

I don't know Lying. I think some people cheat just because they can, without necessarily being unhappy on their relationship. In some people's heads they think they are entitled to the extra sex/fun/ attention and if the spouse doesn't know then they aren't being hurt

In a nutshell.

AvoidingCallanetics... I do take your point but cheaters are inherently selfish, ie. focused on themselves and their own wants. They do not want to lose what they have, they want to gain something else. I don't believe that cheaters are stupid and even if they think they will not get caught they make some sort of risk assessment. Is what they currently have enough to stop them from seeking something more, is the question.

Why would extra sex/fun/attention be needed from a marriage that was happy? All that risk of losing it for what they already have? It doesn't make sense. I don't believe that men or women are sex-obsessed and in a longer-term affair I think that sex becomes secondary as feelings develop for the other person.

I'm not talking about one-night-stands, but neither is the OP.

MrsP, your story has, I hope, put the issues of leading a double life very much into perspective from the family's pov.

Thank you also for showing how to be strong, I really salute you.

To those who say that affairs can't be looked on as black or white - what's clear to me is that there is always a cost. If you aren't prepared to pay it you shouldn't be in the game.

I think some people are so arrogant, or even so good at compartmentalising their lives, that they honestly don't think they will get caught. Their risk assessment is faulty because they want to get laid and so they lie even to themselves about chances of discovery.
I don't think cheaters are stupid either, but they are certainly more predictable than they think they are. The relationships board shows so many men getting caught out in exactly the same ways because they are eithertoo cocky to hide what they are doing properly or because they are not as clever as they think they are . It's like they think women don't notice it when their phones go everywhere with them, or they suddenly set up passcodes etc. It's shameful how little credit they give their wives. Everyone thinks they are special and unique but we really aren't when it comes to patterns of behaviour. Very few people are really good at deception, most normal people give the game away quite easily. Cheaters for some reason, don't get this and are surprised when they get caught.

I think some people are genuinely happy with their relationship but still cheat and I think that's because we are wired to chase the excitement of the new and because marriage is about real life - being stressed sometimes, dealing with problems, not always fun, whereas the affair is escapist and fantasy.

"Why would extra sex/fun/attention be needed from a marriage that was happy?"

Because of the thrill factor. The excitement, the adrenaline rush. These people aren't all about being happy and content, they need something extra, that thrill, that edge of danger. You may never have met someone like this, Lying, which accounts for your opinion - but they do exist. Oh god do they.

I know a couple of very happily married men who have affairs. They are both a bit narcissistic and think they're entitled to a bit extra because life's too short not to have everything they want and they love their thrill of other women. They're very good husbands in every other way and their wives haven't a clue.

There are men (and women) who cheat just because they want to and they can. It's no reflection on their spouse or their marriage. It's their nature and they'll be like that no matter who they're with so long as they have the opportunity to.

Id decided not to come back to this thread after posting of my personal experience because quite honestly it does kind of set your day back a bit.

This business of something being missing from a persons marriage and thats why the do what they do. Its nonsense. Absolute nonsense. The reality is that there's something missing in them. They're the one with the problem. My husbands thrill is now his reality and you'd think he'd be happy but he's not. In fact he's so unhappy he's now a HF alcoholic - its the only thrill/buzz thats left to him.

I try very hard to not get peed off when people spout this nonsense about something missing in a marriage, and when they think they know what a person living a double life involves. In fact Im glad not many people do know what being involved in a double life situation means. Its horrific and even a Hollywood script writer would never be able to get it right in a shelf load of movie scripts.

So again, please do not ever think for one minute you know what this situation must feel like because you dont. And again, the only thing missing in the life of person who does this is something missing in them.

Im away to the salon now, then Im meeting my girls for something to eat. I wont come back to the thread as enough damage has already been done in real life and tomorrow is another day.

She needs to stay away. He didn't want an open part of his life. During those 7 years he had plenty of opportunity to publicise their relationship, and he did not. She stays a secret and mourns to her friends. What does she want to achieve by going to the funeral? Does she want to be acknowledged by his family? It won't go well, and it will likely make the situation worse for her (not to mention his family).