He had an affair...breaking out the Ben & Jerry's (2)

[Syc4moreTrees]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/thirty_days_only/2914533-If-hes-having-an-affair?

Not sure if I've managed to create a link to the old thread...someone more tech savvy can maybe help me out a little bit if not?

The old thread closed before i could thank you all again for all the collective wisdom, it's been a very surreal month to say the least, but it's been crazy how much support you can get from a bunch of lovely strangers.

So thanks!! You're all awesome!

I think you said that you are a criminal barrister? If so, how about feeling proud of you? My oldest friend is also in this profession and I witnessed at first hand how utterly grueling it can be, especially for a woman in a very male- dominated field. You've essentially grown up together; he should be chuffed to bits that his awesome wife has achieved so much, not whining about his 'needs'. Twat.

Having an affair might be forgivable, though you are in no way to blame, don't entertain that thought for a second. But behaving like he is after an affair and when you have just given birth, c section no less, really isn't. You need space to really know whether you want to stay with someone who is this immature and self-centered. He only push push and pushes for what he wants, never giving you what you have told him you need.

Hi tress.

I've been around since the start, but haven't posted yet. I felt compelled to after your last post.

From only the information you have given on here, I can see that your DH just thinks it's a matter of time and maybe a bit of pushing before he is back in the fold.

He really hasn't grasped the magnitude of what he has done. I can't believe he has the audacity to imply you are in someway to blame because you didn't give him enough attention. Did you ask what might happen, if that situation arose again?

The baby is probably confusing the situation because you are overwhelmed and tired etc, but right now he smells your weakness and he is homing in on it. It's like a child who knows when you say No, that you might not really mean it, so they keep pushing and pushing, knowing there is a good chance you will fold. If he is doing that, what does that tell You? It tells me that this isn't about making it up to You, caring about you and how much he has hurt you. This is about him getting what he wants.....his family back. That is his main concern. Him.

He hasn't done anything as far as I can tell to show himself to be in the category of the few men who redeem themselves and never do it again.

Would it kill him to be more humble? Why is he dictating and demanding? Why isn't he falling over himself to do whatever it takes to make it up to you?

I would leave him. I would categorically state you don't want him back. You might stand a chance of him doing a bit of self reflection and working on himself. And if he doesn't, then by that time, you will be in a routine, coping just fine and might not even want him back.

If you genuinely weren't aware of the strain then it is his responsibility tp communicate his concerns. Not shut himself off in a fantasy land of gaming and have a significantly long term affair.

He's getting tetchy because he hasn't been able to bully you into just getting over it already.

If he felt neglected then he could have talked to you about it.

If he feels excluded then that's the consequence of his actions.

It's all still ME ME ME and taking no responsibility for any of it.

Trees the others have it sussed. But it still leaves you in a very tough place.

It is perfectly legitimate not to make a decision for now. So don't. You will always need to be in the business of raising your kids together. So concentrate on that.

I would tell H that you aren't impressed by his behaviour and it is his fault the family is split up for present. And also tell him your hormones are all over the place and you cant get your head round everything for now. Set up a schedule of him having the kids. Get nanny in place and get everything to a new stability.

Tell him you are going to take your time and you don't know what you are going to do yet. Tell him that putting pressure on you wont be looked on favourably

Don t tell him re the admirer. It is all about the admirer, and his behaviour and feelings are actually nothing to do with you. Tell admirer to back off.

I do wonder if your H was treated as a golden child just like mine. Mine could never do any wrong in the eyes of his family so when he did it had to be someones else's fault and not his. He could never be to blame. I just get that impression from yours too.

Your H will never respect you if you roll over. It is much better to be strong and show your own self respect in this situation. If you decide you want to reconcile eventually it is much more likely to work.

I know it is hard to process, but "the family" as was doesn't exist anymore. It may be a new one will emerge, but the old one is gone, destroyed by his actions.

You need space, physical and emotional to process what has happened, and his continual harassment of you is preventing this. Whose idea was the joint counselling at this stage? I honestly think that him being properly out of the picture, with arrangements to see DC, and boundaries in place would help you start to feel better, and actually less tired. And, as I say less confusing for the DC. He needs to start dealing with them on his own, without you suggesting ways and means to him. If this has been the dynamic of your relationship, then it is difficult to change, but it can only be beneficial to you all. You say he has not behaved like this before. Have you had a similar crisis, one that you didn't sort?

Whatever you hope for the future, the best thing you can do now is take control of the situation, and stop trying to sort out what is his problem. Have you directly asked him to stop contact with his "friend" yet? Or asked for more formal arrangements for the DC? Are you nervous of doing so?

It is scary, and so difficult in the post baby haze, but this is your life, and what you do now can make sure that the rest of it is the best it can be for you and your DC.

Stop looking for ways to beat yourself up or accept responsibility for HIS active choice to cheat on you.

He cheated on you. He pursued another woman, he had sex with her, and he had booked another session. NONE of that is because you were working hard, just like he was, in preparation for taking time off for when the new baby arrived. If he wanted more 'attention' (what a baby he is), then he should have offered to do more at home/with the children/told you so rather than actively look for other places to put his dick.

He has clearly not accepted full responsibility for what he has done. He wasn't an 'idiot'. That is minimizing. He blasted his family, your world, apart, and he think he should just be allowed to come home and act like nothing happened.

If he doesn't have all the time he wants with his children, that is entirely on him. His choices led you and him here, not yours. He sucks it up, shows he truly gets it, or he can learn to live with the situation as it is.

Hi OP, i think i posted before but needed to post again, especially after reading this:

At the counselling thing he said he sometimes feels like I put work ahead of the family and he has felt a bit neglected since the pregnancy. I guess that is why having the undivided attention of the OW has come into it. I did work a lot more last year, in preparation for having the luxury of a slower second half to this year following the new arrival, and it was obviously something that was discussed, but it seems like this might have been the wrong approach in hindsight. Maybe I got a bit complacent about the relationship, we've been together forever and I didn't really think he still needed that assurance or attention of old. Not sure i'm explaining that very well.

FUCK THAT SHIT.

He made the distinct choice to cheat. It wasn't an accident. As some other posters have been saying to me, he didn't slip on a wet patch and fall on top of her naked or whatever the equivalent is.

I have made my own thread about reading the newish Chump Lady book - it is honestly amazing. I read the whole thing in one go yesterday.

It puts into words everything you have been saying here, and everything I have felt since D-Day. All the pressure he is putting on you, trying to make you feel guilty and unreasonable. Don't accept it. Determine what are choices you yourself are making and own them, and don't make choices for him/his sake.

As she says: "you weren't meeting my needs" should be met with "you weren't meeting my needs, either, and I didn't cheat on you. please don't try to pawn this crap off on me."

Also, she reminds constantly that people cheat because of something lacking in them - empathy and character - and that it is because they feel entitled to something.

He had choices if he was unhappy - he could try and work on things with you by letting you know and by trying counselling, or he could cheat, or he could just carry on or he could cheat. he chose the coward's way out.

I saw a new counsellor last week, who hit the nail on the head when she told me, "i hear a lot of blame. i hear you blaming and shaming yourself for this". You, and I, are NOT to blame for the cheater being a cheater - only he is.

Good luck, and don't forget to take care of yourself.

Wow I can't believe I've stumbled across your post - I'm pretty much in the same position as you. Here was me thinking the whole having a baby whilst discovering WH's infidelity was quite rare!
My 3rd child & only baby boy is 6 weeks old & was conceived a couple of days before I discovered my WH of 17 years had a ONS using a casual sex/dating app. He doesn't have an OW as he was caught the night he plucked up the courage to dabble in the 'cheat on your wife' app world - d'oh!
Anyway I just wanted to say how dignified, classy & stoic you have been! I wish I had been as measured with my emotions as you have. You sound as if you have consistently put your kids first & kept your head.
I wish I could say the same about me but my hormones & personality (I'm a shouter!) have took me down a different approach.
My WH is back in the house & we are trying to work things out but once the joy of a newborn (he is just lush!) has faded you are left to deal with the stark reality of things. Said newborn makes it even more hard - as I'm learning!
Your posts have had me laughing out loud at times as well as shouting out loud - why are men such wankers!!
Hope it all works out for you no matter which path you take xxx

He is being unnecessarily excluded from the family, and is missing out on time with the baby. Remind me how soon he was planning to go off for another weekend of shagging with the OW? Would that have counted as missing out on time with the baby? The same baby he was happy to expose to an STI? That baby?

He sometimes feels like I put work ahead of the family and he has felt a bit neglected since the pregnancy The pregnancy you made together, that he was very keen on? Ask yourself, how many hours in the last year has he spent gaming, talking to his mates, conducting his seedy affair online and in hotels? Was he putting the family first then? How much family money did he spunk on his weekend away? Also, you realise he didn't mention the strain because there wasn't any - it's a post hoc justification for his twattishness. And if he had felt neglected he should have told you - there is no excuse, none, for his decision to pursue an affair and his attempts to blame you are disgusting.

He is behaving like an idiot right now, a little bit petulant and irritable, which is honestly very unlike him. Because for the first time in his entire life he's got a problem that you're not fixing for him. And he's pissed off, because the boring adult stuff is your job, his life should all be fun. How dare you not just forgive him and carry on as normal? He said sorry!

I'm afraid coming to the view that this isn't fixable because he is just too selfish to accept responsibility. You're exhausted because you have a newborn baby and two small children and you've all had your worlds turned upside down BY HIM and his solipsistic instinct is use your exhaustion and care for them as a means to manipulate you. That is downright cruel.

Regarding the secret admirer, there's no need to tell WH at all. It's none of his business. But I bet he won't turn out to be the only one of your mutual friends who has secretly wondered for years why you were still involved with this pathetic manchild.

God I'm fuming on your behalf

c'mon Sycamore..you are an intelligent woman, how are you falling for all this and ALLOWING him to pass the buck for his infidelity back to you

He wants another child, and somehow YOU get to work extra hard for that, and take the blame cos he suddenly thinks he is being neglected and entitled to run off and fuck another woman

Everything Schnitzel said with bells on!!!

Makes me laugh when mine tries to lecture me on parenting (the guy who ran off for two week holiday just before DS' second birthday). Or tries to tell me he should dictate where I live with DS because it might be inconvenient for him to get too - sure wasn't too inconvenient to arrange complex multi city rendezvous with OW!

Oh trees please don't let him make you feel to blame for any of this. I'm so angry on your behalf!

He is behaving like an idiot right now, a little bit petulant and irritable, which is honestly very unlike him

Only because everything before has catered to his whims.

I said before, selfish people have affairs and he's continuing to show you he is a selfish man first and foremost if the needs of others contradict his.

Please, see him as the self centered arse he's continued to be.

Arrrrgggghhhhhh! Trees I've followed your posts (I'm a serial name-changer) and each update I get furious with your Wanker husband.

You are so patient and forbearing. And you are still thinking it's somehow your fault & your responsibility. Listen to these wise women posting above me. They.Are.Right.

And remember what the 'W' stands for: wankery. Self-obsessed, selfish, short term pleasure seeking. He doesn't deserve you.

And can I rant about men who like all the things that two salaries bring, and like to feel they are pater familias and strong upstanding citizens. But crumple into stupid children when the attention is taken for one second off how wonderfully "good with the children and supportive of their family" they are.

You both decided to take on extra work to make life easier for your family, he’s being grossly unfair to you by suggesting you put work ahead of the family and he felt a bit neglected since the pregnancy – no excuse to have an affair and no doubt him feeling this way was conveyed to OW. He should have expressed his feelings to you and no one else. How about you? Did you feel neglected in an evening when he was spending hours “gaming” when he could have been spending quality time with you?

Tiny, tiny step admitting he’s been an idiot but then qualified this by saying he feels like he is being unnecessarily excluded from the family, and is missing out on time with the baby. You are not excluding him he’s spending time with the older boys and having cuddle time with the baby, the situation is not your doing it's his.

Being petulant and irritable could this be guilt, realising he’s brought this situation upon himself but not wanting to admit to himself?

Can understand you not wanting to talk to your mutual friends, would your DB and his DW be a good sounding board?

WH needs a jolly good kick up the backside that’s putting it politely to get his act together, put you first and what you want not what is best for him at this moment. He needs to recognise you need space and time, you’ve gave birth to baby just over two weeks ago, hormones all over the place natural to feel tired and overwhelmed with everything.

Take care

I still wonder how a man who's now complaining of feeling excluded from the family had enough time to spend so long gaming that he built up a whole online life? What hobbies do you pursue to that extent Trees ? I wonder ...

I suspect that you don't have time. I wonder how he did.

'I had an affair because I felt neglected' said every Cheater ever...
He isn't even original.
Maybe you felt a bit neglected and resentful that you were working very hard to provide for your growing family, when you were pregnant, whilst he sat his arse in front of a console for insane amounts of time and managed to get himself into a sexual relationship with another woman?
Would that be a reasonable excuse had you decided to cheat on him in his eyes do you think?
I highly doubt it...

He is now being petulant and irritable? What 6 weeks after you discovered he was shagging someone else? whilst you have a new born to look after and a c section to recover from? He seems to lack empathy for you, never mind respect, or the will to make this right and not about him and what he is 'missing out on'.

As gently as possible- don't you think you deserve better than this Trees?
You sound awesome.He sounds childish, and to be honest a little bit unintelligent. I just think you are owed more than he is willing to give you.

Hi trees long time lurker. I just wanted to say that I think you have behaved impeccably throughout this all.

... and I really think the best option at this point would be a 'Manny'.

He's still not taking any responsibility for his actions, is he? It's all your fault Trees, how dare you work hard for your family and impending new baby. How very dare you. Poor WH was forced into the arms of the OW. He had no choice. Poor grown man was attention starved. He's the real victim in all of this...didn't you realise??

And he's been unnecessarily excluded from the family?! Er no. That's generally what happens when you get caught with your dick inside someone else. Wanker indeed.

So sorry Trees, I'm fuming on your behalf.

Oh Christ desk>

Right. So it's still all about him. How much attention he was getting during pregnancy (wasn't he already been unfaithful at this point?). He's being "pushed out"/punished unnecessarily now. And he kept you up unnecessarily. Fucking selfish tosser.

Trees I don't think I've said this before, I know you probably don't want me to be blunt. But get rid of this selfish, good for nothing fucker once and for all. He is a nasty, cheating wanker, manipulative and self centred.

If you take him back he will do it again the next time he feels "excluded". Or he'll use feeling "excluded" as an excuse for dicking around.

I'm so sorry. I know that's not what you want to hear. But I'm astounded by his attitude and attempts to put the blame on you. I'm so sorry Trees

I think the feeling excluded thing is juts a daft excuse he's dreamt up, or something that's been suggested by his counsellor as a reason for it all. I think he is being dishonest with himself if he thinks this is the reason for it all, and I really really can't see it. I was working more, her was working more, but we still had time together and as a family so it's hard to think that he felt things were any different in a truly life altering way.

He had been talking to the OW for a good few months before we got pregnant, and to be honest I have avoided doing the maths too completely in terms of him going to meet her the first time and the conception of the LO, because I think they are just a little too close for comfort.

The gaming he would have had plenty of time during the day as he works from home, and he would game in the bath/shower in the evenings. It didn't bother me though, and I didn't really notice it impinging on our family life. I had one night out in the week for two hours to climb, which was also not an issue for him, and was important to me because my job is a bit full on so a wind down with a physical thing is great.

I don't really know. I think we had a pretty good balance. He did a lot of childcare stuff because he was at home and my hours were a bit unpredictable at times, he did his share of cooking/cleaning all that stuff. I don't think i'm looking back with rose coloured glasses, i just think we had a really nice marriage and were lucky to be able to work things around each other, but maybe he did do too much. It's so hard to know.

Maybe that's all there is though, we had 15 lovely years together and our time is up or I've used up my allocated amount of happiness and i have to surrender to the new life where everything is just a little bleaker. I've still been incredibly lucky though, and have great friends and a lovely brother and all is not lost, i'm just being a bit ungrateful today maybe.

Onwards and upwards. I wish i'd thought to slip a manny into the list of candidates! curses!

You're not being ungrateful. It's lovely to have friends and siblings but you deserved the love, loyalty and respect of your husband and he let you down. If he'd wanted out of the marriage, he should have told you first - that is the absolute minimum of decency after 15 years together. (He didn't want out of course - he wanted all the comforts of marriage AND a novelty shag on the side. Didn't think to check if you were OK with that though).