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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

He's broke the news

175 replies

missforever · 14/05/2017 21:19

I've nc.
Been with DP for nearly 4 years have 1 dc and just found out expecting no2.
After me asking about marriage he's just broke the news he has no interest and has no plans to ever marry me. He said last year and a year ago it would be when we were financially stable (have been for a while now)
I'm at a loss on what to do.
I'm 28 he is 48. Everything has been all hunky dory until now. (He's never been married before but had a longest relationship of 8 years)
I want to leave because marriage is important to me (not religious but the status I suppose. I feel like we would be a complete family)

OP posts:

Motoko · 16/05/2017 14:40

If you leave him without being married then I'm not sure you get maintenance.

Yes, you do get child maintenance if you're not married.

OP, I do think he should be on the birth certificate. I don't know if it makes things trickier getting maintenance if he's not, as he could deny that he's the father to avoid paying it for your second child.
However, he might insist the child has his surname or he won't come with you to register the baby, and he has to be present to go on the birth certificate as you're not married.

Tricky.

Mustang27 · 16/05/2017 14:48

You loved him when you thought he wanted to marry you now you don't because he says he doesn't. Are pregnancy hormones playing a part in all of this? It seems so extreme to me.

I was forced into marriage by an abusive partner years ago and I don't really rate it so maybe I'm missing something. If you were secure happy and in love why does a second baby and no marriage change this?

I'm sorry this is all happening to you at such a vulnerable time. I hope he see's sense but I don't think his refusal to marry suggests he doesn't love you and if you genuinely meant that you wouldn't take him for all those things if you left after marriage there is such a thing as a pre nup which can outline what you would and would not be entitled to that you can sign before the wedding that puts his silly mind to rest.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 16/05/2017 14:49

There is no advantage to the op if he is on the birth certificate. Maintenance can be claimed either way. If he denies paternity he will have to pay for a dna test

alembec · 16/05/2017 14:49

Ok miss, I'm going to tell you to BE VERY CAREFUL from now.
By saying you are leaving him, you leave yourself and him to a LOT of raw emotions, and things are going to develop very quickly, and not necessarily in your favour.

If you are absolutely sure you want to leave him, you need to find a solicitor NOW, and pay them to get full financial disclosure started TODAY. Any extra time he has will be time for him to hide his assets (if he hasn't done so already) or pass them to his parents.

Do you know how much the company has been paying him per year?

If you claim on schedule 1 - they DO take into account dividends and non-earned income, so if he is receiving that you should be fine.

However, I suspect all the dividends etc are going to his parents, and his parents give him money as 'gifts', for tax reasons, and going by the ownership of the company. which unfortunately means you and your kid/s might be royally screwed. But you won't know any of this unless he tells you, so how you manage to get this (lawyers, pretending to play nice again whilst biding your time, getting your hands on some paperwork...) is up to you - you know better than us what might work.

If it turns out that he 'doesn't' earn or own very much, whether he is hiding or not, then you need to convince him that he needs to do his best to support his children, and their carer, and give more than the minimum child support. Again how you do that you know better than us - whether you can get him to see sense.

He will have been hurt by your refusal to fall in line, and i suspect he will want to punish you the only way he knows how - withdrawing financial support.

I don't know what will happen, and I really hope it all works out for the best, but be careful here.

The only thing you can do is prepare yourself - get a career, understand your legal position and his. You can't control him, but you can control yourself and your actions. You will do better if you are calm, cool heading and forward thinking.

Wish you all the best.

Inertia · 16/05/2017 14:50

You don't need to put the father on the birth certificate if you're not married- in fact you can't put his name on the BC unless he comes to register the birth with you, and you are certainly not obliged to invite him.

He'd then need to apply for parental responsibility, BUT he would still be responsible for paying child maintenance.

Definitely add yourself to the electoral roll.

Do you have any proof of payments you've made towards the mortgage or home improvements in the time you've lived there?

BluePeppers · 16/05/2017 14:52

Very advise alembec

If your decision is to leave NOW, then you need to stop paying nice and do what is needed to protect you and your dc(s)

Cutesbabasmummy · 16/05/2017 14:56

If you don't want to get married that's fine but you need to understand that if he died you'd get absolutely nothing. That's a very vulnerable position to be in. You don't need a big white wedding just 5 mins in a register office.

JanetBrown2015 · 16/05/2017 14:59

I would never marry again. I already paid out to a lower earner on divorce and I will never do it again. I am afraid I am with the boyfriend here. If a man said he would move out if I didn't marry then he can go. I am not going to jeopardise my assets.

Why not go out there and earn what he does? Loads of women are higher earners these days. We don't need men to be meal tickets - we can earn and pay our own way. I earned 10x my husband. It rocks.

RubyWinterstorm · 16/05/2017 15:08

It's not easy to go out and earn what he does, if she ahs a baby and is pregnant 9who hires a pregnant woman?!), so she is financially vulnerable.

If he does not want to marry, and you want to stay together it is imperative that you both share baby care, housework etc. EQUALLY, and you go out to work (any childcare costs should be shared between you), as being a SAHM in this set-up is not a good choice.

Also, if you live in his house, only pay him "rent/mortgage" if you get part of the equity.

Goingtobeawesome · 16/05/2017 15:09

I known the kids would get maintenance. I said the OP might not for her.

alembec · 16/05/2017 15:15

janet I hear you, but it's not about finding a 'meal ticket', it is about the fair financial and emotional care of a family, which the OP thought she had with this man. It is not fair that she doesn't know her family earnings, it is not fair that she has to ask for money, it is not fair to be led down a blind alley re. marriage.

What's to say that this isn't the making of the OP and in 10 years time she'll be back telling us how she got screwed by her ex but managed to start her own business which she's just sold for 10 mn bucks??

I hope so!

FizzyGreenWater · 16/05/2017 15:45

Meal ticket? But it's fine for him to latch on to a housekeeper ticket and a baby-making ticket and a 'put-your-career-aside-so-I-can-be-the-one-to-have-both-family-and-career' ticket?

She's made sacrifices, committed to a joint enterprise and he's the one coming up short.

JanetBrown2015 are you Xenia

Sittinginthesun · 16/05/2017 15:53

Fizzy If you out her, she'll have to name change.

Motoko · 16/05/2017 16:14

There is no advantage to the op if he is on the birth certificate. Maintenance can be claimed either way. If he denies paternity he will have to pay for a dna test

Thanks for the clarification, That avoids the worry of the situation I could see as a possibility.

AcrossthePond55 · 16/05/2017 16:44

If you have time, I suggest you write down your 'points' regarding his treatment of you. Men like him seem to pick up on one thing and run with it and before you know, you've been distracted from other issues.

You also need to decide (although I think you already have) whether or not you want to see if the relationship can be salvaged.

If not, what's the point in even talking about it other than simply saying that his treatment of you has been unfair and thoughtless of your and your child's future. To talk about it if there's no chance will only give him a pulpit for his opinions and a chance to tell you how 'greedy ' you are.

Bubblebath01 · 16/05/2017 20:52

Hunny he's a control freak. My DP left me and our DC after nearly 30 years. Turns out everything in his name he keeps. Everything... You have no legal claim or entitlement. If he won't commit, leave. TBH, you're better off doing while you are young enough to adjust. Ditto what Tatiana says above. He will leaveway some point, and you have nothing without the legal recourse of marriage. I was naive, please don't be.... Xx

Bubblebath01 · 16/05/2017 20:55

Sorry, worst mistake I made, allowing him to put his surname on the birth certificates.

PoorYorick · 16/05/2017 21:10

He wants her to have his name, he wants the kids to have his name, but he won't actually make the legal commitment that goes with it. Prick.

Janet, if you consider all your assets to be yours and you do not want to risk or share them, that is fine. Stay single (or at least live alone and unmarried) and DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN. If you do, accept that with that choice comes responsibility to provide and parent. And that if one partner sacrifices their earning power to enable you to have children with little or no influence on your own earning power, that responsibility also then falls to you if the relationship fails.

SandyY2K · 16/05/2017 21:14

When your DS starts school, you can use your own surname as his surname. So if his surname is Jones for example and yours is Phillips... He is on the register as Jones and but known as Johnny Phillips.

Or you could double barrel it if you prefer. The surname you tell him is his, is the one he'll grow up knowing.

In your position I'd probably terminate, as it's easier to move on with one child.

Leave now while you have age on your side.

I wouldn't even discuss it with him anymore. I'd just make plans to leave. It's just not worth it with zero security.

Bubblebath01 · 17/05/2017 08:06

Hi. Lots of info about solicitors and financial disclosure. None of it applies if you aren't married. I know, I'm there. Basically you get nothing, hence my thoughts go while you're young. I was a SAHM, no pension, etc. He has left with a pension pot, savings, shares, ISA, etc in excess of £1m. I have NO claim, full stop. I am over 50 and trying to plan ahead with no security except half a house. OP, do not waste your time with solicitors, you get nothing hunny, and it'll cost you stacks. Most offer an initial consultation for an hour, it'll cost about £100. They will tell you that you cannot claim anything except child maintenance. Accept you want to leave for yourself and the children. Apply to CMA for child maintenance, you don't need to go through solicitors. Get a job, any job, for 16 hours a week, and claim tax credits, child benefit, etc. Unmarried you have no claim, please don't think you do. I've learnt a lot over the last 2 years, adjust while you are young enough, and move forwards. Xx

alembec · 17/05/2017 09:55

With all due respect bubble that is not quite true. IF there is enough to claim under schedule 1, then yes, there must be financial disclosure through form E1 and basis for claims for the children that is greater than basic CMS child maintenance. And the ability to claim for schedule 1 is mostly related to earnings about the CMS threshold of 150k or thereabouts. If the ex does not earn 150k (for real or because they are good at hiding earnings), or if there are no children, then yes, you are right. If the kids are older (say teens), then the cost of the claim may not be worth it as it only applies whilst kids are in minority.

Which is why the OP MUST see a family solicitor specialising in unmarried cases to see where she stands.

I am going through my case righ now. Hence my info.

alembec · 17/05/2017 09:56

Earnings ABOVE, not about the CMS threshold.

alembec · 17/05/2017 09:58

And bubble the same would apply to you too, if your ex is earning above 150k then there is no reason why you can't claim more for your kids.

Best of luck with your plans either way - it is totally shit what he did to you.

nauticant · 17/05/2017 09:58

I have to say that I think Bubblebath01's advice just above is correct. You won't have any legal claim to assets in his name and not yours so thousands spent on solicitors won't get you anywhere. The thing you will be able to go for is child maintenance but you should expect that your (ex?)P will configure things so he has a low salary and receives money through other routes not assessed for child maintenance.

If you're going to get out with nothing, now, when you're relatively young, is the time to do it.

SandyBells · 17/05/2017 10:27

I would say that going to a familylaw solicitor is actually a very good idea. In the UK(assuming the OP is from here) there is a concept of legal ownership and beneficial ownership, and who's name is on what asset is largely irrelevant to that....not least because there are children involved.

So, although Bubblebath's situation sounds desperately painful and desperately desperately unfair, it may be that the nuances of the law in the Uk might have some differences for the OP, and it is definitely worth her checking it out.

to Bubbles.

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