He's broke the news

[missforever]

I've nc.
Been with DP for nearly 4 years have 1 dc and just found out expecting no2.
After me asking about marriage he's just broke the news he has no interest and has no plans to ever marry me. He said last year and a year ago it would be when we were financially stable (have been for a while now)
I'm at a loss on what to do.
I'm 28 he is 48. Everything has been all hunky dory until now. (He's never been married before but had a longest relationship of 8 years)
I want to leave because marriage is important to me (not religious but the status I suppose. I feel like we would be a complete family)

The problem with OP saying she'll only have this baby if he marries her, is that he may agree to it, but keep delaying until it's too late for OP to have a termination.

OP, it will be a lot harder to leave if you have two children, rather than just one. It will also make working more difficult as you'll have two lots of childcare fees which may not be financially viable.

Does he own the house outright, or is there still a mortgage on it? If he's paying a mortgage, you won't be able to be put on the deeds unless a new mortgage is taken out with you on it.

"Because that actually removes their independent choice as to whether or not they want to be with that person. Which do you think he is?"

No it doesn't, with respect. What the hell happened to personal responsibility or accountability? This woman chose to have a child without being married. She therefore doesn't have the same rights as a married woman. To say otherwise makes the marriage null and void.

This situation is quite simple - you are bearing all the risk in the relationship and he is bearing none. (Word play deliberate!)

This is not acceptable and how does he intend to address it?

He also lied about his intentions - how does he intend to address that?

Stay on those two points and insist on an answer.

NEVER use the word "security".

It's really easy to call men out but you said your relationship was really happy aside from this. Could you maybe get some couple counselling so you can neutrally talk it out? It might help you both explain your reasoning.

Nowadays more and more people don't see marriage as a requirement for commitment (because they've had a bad experience themselves or in their childhood). But maybe if you have an opportunity to pragmatically explain what this means to you, and the legal/financial implications of not being married, you'd at least get to make a decision on the relationship on the basis of him knowing your side...

because My point about 'informed choice' is that if he had told her at the get go "No, I will never marry you" she may have made a different decision as far as staying with him, let alone having a child with him. She went into the relationship believing that they would be married at some point and therefore believed that having a child was a 'safe' thing to do.

I say this from the 'opposite' perspective. I married a man who knew I wanted children. When I would bring up our future children he would 'hmmm' and 'yeah' and 'down the line'. After we had been married 4 years and we approached what would have been the 'right time' to have a baby he announced that he never wanted children, at all, ever. He knew this when he married me. I was not given the information I needed to make an 'informed choice'. I never would have married him if I had known he didn't want children. Instead I wasted almost 5 years of my life.

I agree that it's a danger to have a child with a man you are not married to unless you remain self-supporting. But if you love and trust someone and believe what they tell you I can see how someone could decide to take that chance. And even marriage is no guarantee, although it has definite legal protections.

Ask him if he would do it if you just went to the registry office and did it that way rather than the big palava?

@missforever has he made a will, and if so are you and his child provided for in it?

This is a very sad situation and I hope you manage to get through to him.

OP do you have anyone to talk to IRL? This is monumentally crap and you must be feeling so many mixed emotions. Do you have a place to live if you leave? A wedding doesn't even need a reception you can just go to the registry office, so all that nonsense about needing to save up and not wanting to be the centre of attention is total BS. How long have you been put of work? Once you've decided about the pregnancy I would brush off that CV and get looking for work. Did your partner prevent you from working? Good luck OP.

What an awful man!

He lies to you and watches you get deeper into commitment via having his children.

He won't step up and be a man and give you the protection you need.

However, if you were to leave he'd fight you tooth and nail for the children he is trying to avoid making secure.

What a horrible man!

Given the way he is treating you and dismissing your feelings and right to independence - financially and otherwise - are you sure you even want to marry him? Or is it the idea of being married that is better. A lot of people get married but it doesn't work out so think carefully now if that's what you really want.

Seriously do you want to be married to someone that you have had to blackmail and cajole into it? no you don't, really you don't. If you go to him and say no marriage then I will have a termination he will hold this over your head and probably the poor childs head forever. it will come up in every argument you have.

the man is a liar. he lied to you when he said he would get married. he wont marry you willingly ever. and if you do cajole him into it with the baby as blackmail, you wont stay married.

Don't go to him with options. go to him with a plan. Your only viable plan is to say, I am having a termination, I do not want to bring another child into our relationship if we are not married. Then start using some reliable birth control and start to work out how to disentangle yourself from this relationship so as to put you and your child on a secure footing.

so what if he has the money for a good lawyer? no court is going to take this child off of you, no way. you have been the main carer and you can prove this.

tell him also that you are going to look for a job.

you need to focus on you and your child right now. the important thing is not to just upsticks and leave but to have everything in place so that you can leave.

he has robbed you of your financial independence. he has lied.

don't wait until baby no 3 is on the way or he has left you to marry a younger model. its really tough but you have to take charge now.

there isn't anything to discuss because he wont discuss so don't bother any more. just spend your time getting your ducks in a row.

Thankyou for all your helpful advice. Sorry I haven't been back sooner, was trying to get my head round things and had drs appointment.
He basically ignored me all night after one conversation.
I told him I would be an even bigger fool to bring another baby into 'relationship' he said I was guilt tripping him into marrying me by saying I would have a termination. Then he said I can just imagine what will happen when we are married, you will go in a mood one day and say you'll take me for everything, house, business etc.
I said that I would never do that to him or anybody. Cried and went to bed. He obviously thinks very little of me and I don't want to be with someone who thinks like that of me.

I'm waiting on a call back from citizens advice.
I've also found out I'm not on the electoral role here . Shall I phone the council up and Do I need to add myself now? I have no 'proof' I've been living here for nearly 4 years apart from my car and insurance.
I'm still unsure of what to do about baby. Apart of me wants a termination but the other side says leave and have baby. Drs have sent of urgent referral to midwife team to get me booked in for scan so we can figure out how far along I am. I think I'll take it from there then.

Don't rush in to a termination when the only reason you would consider it is because of a man.

Definitely don't give baby your partner' surname though, you have the complete control over baby's name, he has zero. But he will have to pay for them for many years, even without them having his name.

I suspect the simple fact that his second baby won't be having his name will drive him to get a finger out and marry you - if you'd even still want it by then.

Stick I don't want to marry him now.
I feel like he thinks very little of me.
Obviously things might change. But how I feel now. Not a chance in hell. I couldn't look at him this morning after what he said last night

Op he's given you everything you need - he won't marry you because he doesn't want to share his wealth with you. Interesting that love hasn't been mentioned by him at all.

Get out of there. He will have to pay maintenance, you can get a job or something. It will work out.

You have started making plans - that is good.
About him not thinking much of you, it is surprisingly easy to be ignorant of that so you are not alone - It's only in recent years I look back at one of my exs in particular and realise he didn't think that much of me - some of this great sadness probably stemmed from the fact that I didn't know my place as it where.

However you will need to take action - you have until the 23rd to register if you want to vote and you will need to book that termination ASAP.

Good luck - he does not see you as a comrade or an ally - and from that the relationship is doomed.

Citizens Advice will help you with the electoral role and any forms you need to fill in.
I think you're being very sensible and brave.
It's sad that your partner is putting his material possessions before his partner and child. Some of the things he is saying may be because he is panicking about you threatening to leave but I think he's shown himself to be a selfish man.

Great that you are booking a scan. You should have time to make a decision afterwards and the NHS will offer you counselling before committing to a termination which will help.

Keep strong, it's all very daunting but you'll get through this.

Then he said I can just imagine what will happen when we are married, you will go in a mood one day and say you'll take me for everything, house, business etc.

Well that's charming. It's all about him and his money. He sounds like an MRA.

Hi all,

We're just moving this over to relationships for the OP.

You can register on the electoral roll online. I think the only thing you need is your National Insurance number. Google "register to vote" for the address. It's a .gov.uk address I believe.
But do it soon as time is running out.

OP how much do you think he earns? How much assets do you think he has? Your children might be able to claim more than you think if he's richer than he's been telling you (which frankly is probably in this case, as why would he be so worried about you taking his business if it's only worth a couple of grand?)

If he earns around £150k gross, you will be able to use Schedule 1 of the children's act to claim child support, top up child support, carer's allowance, a housing fund (I.e. he will have to buy a house for you and your children until uni), private school fees and cars allowance.

There was a case where the dad (it's always the dad) had to sell his own house in order to buy a house for his ex and his children.

He probably won't voluntarily tell you the truth of what he earns, but can you do some digging and spying? Use company's house directors roll if he owns a business. Try to figure out what credit and debit cards he has, fuck it, have a look at his bank statements if you can!

Particularly to this sort of case, you CAN claim legal expenses from the ex too.

If he earns 150k, and if he can afford any/all the above, you will do better than the CMA minimum.

And ditto to other posters as to the custody. You need to mentally prepare for 50/50, but you are very unlikely to get there, and probably more likely EOW.

See a solicitor asap - don't tell him, and do some research on this law. You and your child/ren might be able to get a lot more than you think. Ideally do this now, so you can consider your pregnancy in light of what you learn.

Get mentally prepared for a long battle though, get tough. Get skilled up and get your own career.

You sound like a nice person, you will find it in you to get through this.

PS, legally you CAN get him to do full financial disclosure - its form E1, and covers very similar stuff to form E in a divorce case, even if he doesn't want to show or tell you his finances.

He may well lie on those forms though, so you need to do some of your own work to know where he banks, where he invests, what he owns, so that you can call him out on any discrepancies on the form.

If he is a professional, then he has a greater incentive to not lie on the forms as it is illegal. you know best whether he would lie to the law as well as to you...

Alembec ty for some great advice! I've been on the company director role website. Found the business instantly. It says the managing director and director are his parents name.
I know it was their company and they passed it on to 'd'p when they retired. He's been managing director for a good 8-10 years (maybe more) it also says they are 'Active' in that role currently
Could this have just not have been updated or am I on to something bigger?
I know where he banks (person & business) there are no statements in the house AT ALL. Don't know what his password for online would be.
He has an office at home too, computer password protected and when I've asked to use that instead of my laptop it's like he stands over me like a hawk. (No idea what the password is)
Something's on that computer. Isn't it?

Why is it so important? I don't want to get married but have kids and been together for 12 years. Would it make you happier to see a man standing at the alter who doesn't want to do it. I find the whole premise ridiculous really and out dated. Nothing to do with my partner.

If financial reasons then how romantic. Are you happy apart from this? What are the benefits of being married. I'm seriously asking?