AIBU to expect a proposal by now?

[DarwinChrist]

DP and I have been together for coming up 6 years. We've lived together for 5 and have a DS who's 3.
I've been waiting and wondering if I'll ever get married. In the first year of our relationship he mentioned a few times that he wants to be married to me and have a big wedding etc. He talks about it now and again. But alas... I have no engagement ring.
He earns a good wage, we're very fortunate and living quite comfortably. He has said that he wants to save up a bit so that when we do get engaged we can start planning straight away.
I've repeatedly told him I don't want an expensive ring (I don't wear jewellery and have more of a simple taste anyway) and I've also said that I don't need a huge extravagant wedding.

What's bugging me lately is that he keeps saving up... and then buying something expensive for himself.
I know how ridiculous that sounds, because it's his money. But the first time he spent £4k on a car that he doesn't need, he gets a company car which he can use for personal use. He bought it so he would have 'something to tinker with on the weekends'.
Then he started saving again, and went on a lads weekend to Ireland.
Now he's saving so he can invest in his best friends nee business.

He has always given me the impression that we'll be getting married.

But when I have brought it up before his excuse is that he's saving for a ring.

I just needed a rant. Feeling a bit fed up.

I just want to be married to him. And I want it to come from him, because he's told me many times he wants to marry me.

But what the hell is taking so long?!

Actions speak louder than words. He doesn't want to marry you. What you need to work out is why he's keeping you dangling, and I would bet it's because it suits him at the moment, and when Miss Right comes along he will be off. I've seen this many times. I feel very sorry for your situation but it's time for you to take control.

It's easy for people to comment "you propose to him" but in our family/friendship groups that would come accross as extremely desperate and embarrassing. Not everyone has the same opinion but my personal belief is that the man should propose (preparing to be flamed and kicked off mumsnet for being anti-feminist)

FrenchMartini you are completely missing the point here.

The stuff you are describing relates to a romantic "proposal for love" situation. It is fair enough if you are in the early stages of a relationship to think "yes I want the man to propose to me" because that's traditional/more romantic/how it "should" be done and so on.

OP here is waaaaaaaay past that point. She has a child with a man who is sole owner of the home they live in. She needs to get married for financial security and her own child's economic safety to put it bluntly. She isn't even on the deeds to the house FFS. She doesn't need a romantic-I'm-not-desperate-proposal-so I'm-happy-to wait type situation. She needs to get married tomorrow and it's more important than "not looking desperate"

OP - have you searched MN for similar threads like this. There are a lot of them and the majority of posters will give accounts like yours that end up with "and we stayed together, me waiting and one day he came home and told me he was leaving me. A month later he was married to someone else".

Someone dragging their heels (which this is) is someone who does not want to get married. So you need to have it out with him, find out once and for all if he is prepared to do it for you and your child. If not, you need a lawyer.

I never thought for one minute dp was waiting for someone better to come along btw. If I would have organised and paid for the whole thing he we would be married by now.. that's our life in a nutshell if we want to make steps for anything holidays, house moves/improvements it's always me who organises and pays for everything.
He didn't want to pay out a poxy £250 for a registry office because he probably felt he wouldn't get any gain from it. He would happily pay £500 for PlayStation and fancy tv's. But not for our future security.
He just always thinks everything falls into place without him having to do anything.
The reason I wouldn't take control of the wedding is because I needed to know he wanted it too. Really wanted it.
I didn't want in 10 years time him saying he felt like he was bullied into it because I just rail roaded the whole thing.
If you're not bothered about rings and fancy proposals. Just say "do you want to get married? I won't wait forever. If so I'll book it asap. It's not a proposal as such but you might find out a little more as to where you shand

Exactly, CheersMedea, this is not about saving face!

I have no problem at all with women doing the proposing however surely you would want to be pretty certain of getting a positive answer before doing so.
So you don't get embarrassed? Is that at all relevant here? To be honest it would be useful to find out if the answer was "no" now so that OP can plan to go straight back into full-time work if there really is a good chance of her being left with no home, no pension, no savings, no career and two children to look after.

OP, it sounds like you already got the point long ago (I guess some people have just not read the thread too carefully!). I have to say that I wasn't married when I got pregnant, even though the baby was planned. It was only when I realised that, in our case, our being married would even affect the children's British citizenship that we quickly got married. It was the easiest way to sort out all the legal issues in one go. Until then I'd just thought of marriage as being all about the dress and so on, as well, when really that is a distraction from the more important issues. Mumsnet is pretty good at pointing out the practicalities of marriage but it's not something I've heard anywhere else, either.

Here DarwinChrist. Get your reading chops round this lot:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2184612-5-years-no-ring

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2298100-9-years-together-and-no-real-proposal-which-is-bugging-me-now?pg=4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2043953-DP-dragging-his-heels-about-our-future

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/382757-dp-won-t-marry-me

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2212164-He-doesnt-want-to-get-married

Some example posts:

I remember my mother saying to me 'after seven years together, it's time to knit or split', but then she was the old-fashioned type! Everyone else has said what I want to say, except I will add that a very good friend of mine was with her partner for 10 years. He was in a very bad car crash and in hospital in intensive care. His parents - with whom she'd always had a good relationship - took over, deciding about life support and so on, and she was essentially elbowed out because she had no legal standing in terms of a relationship with him. She wasn't his next of kin and was amazed, baffled and hurt to realise that their 10 years living together counted for nothing. Marriage isn't for everyone, but at least formalise certain areas legally to protect children. To go back to the OP, maybe he thinks you're not that bothered, since the subject hasn't come up again since the birth of your daughter?

Patchworkpatty Tue 03-Feb-15 08:24:23
A cautionary tale . Two years ago, best mate since uni, relationship broke up. She had lived with knobhead for 26 yrs, they have five children and the sort of life you see in magazines. Large country house, flat in London, skiing twice year, foreign holiday with family in summer for 2 three weeks. Never married as he didn't 'believe' in it.... (and of course once he had children believed in it even less ) 3 yrs ago it turned out that the flat in town was a convenient shag pad for him and OW . He left and moved in with her. 3.months later they married. My friend gets 25% of residual income for maintenance. He put the deposit on a new rental property for her and kids and gave her 30k (lawyer told her to take it as in law was entitled to nothing. Probably most shocking is that being a sahm for 25 yrs she has only credits towards her staye pension from child benefit (about £34 pw If married she would get half private pension (2750 pm ) and over £187 pw state pension as divorced woman.
Above all, there was little time to grieve. When a marriage breaks down, the period between separation and divorce absolute allows a period of mourning, living with someone does not. you can live with someone for 20 yrs and then marry someone else within a month. My mothers particularly unattractive saying for this situation is : Why would a farmer buy the cow when he is getting the milk for free.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Thu 03-Apr-14 13:15:20
I had a 3 year relationship with a lovely man who was never going to change his life to accommodate marriage, children etc. I walked away, he is still exactly the same 13 years later and I would have never had children or a marriage if I had stayed.

I think you need to get your head round the fact that your 'partner' a) isn't b) is financially controlling at the least, financially abusive at worst c) isn't a 'good dad' because he doesn't care enough about his own child to make sure he's financially secure in the even of his father's death d) doesn't want to marry you, ever. You're on your own already. This 'chat' will achieve nothing because, as you rightly have the measure of him, he will never get round to changing anything and use 'too busy' as an excuse.

You're living a lie, and a dangerous one.

No more homeschooling lark. You need to get your child signed up for school, ANY school, apply for more than 1 job, for any jobs you can, and make plans to leave him.

TBH, I wouldn't want to be married to him, he sees it all as 'his' money, his house, his cars, a prenup to protect his money, and you're just a convenient lackey to him. He's inherently selfish and that will never change. Life is too short to be shackled to someone like this.

Can't believe you split costs 50/50 when you were on NMW and he was on £70k. What an arsehole. That would have been the time to leave him, but in the future, take that on board.

It's easy for people to comment "you propose to him" but in our family/friendship groups that would come accross as extremely desperate and embarrassing.

Marriage is a joint decision. It affects both parties. I do not understand why a serious couple would not discuss marriage and decide on it together. I don't really understand surprise proposals regardless of who does the proposing. I don't think a woman proposing is desperate, no more so than a man who proposes. I'm assuming there are some lesbian couples who have done the surprise proposal thing.

Can't believe you split costs 50/50 when you were on NMW and he was on £70k. What an arsehole

Woah! I totally missed this. Dear God.

Come on OP! See the Light.

Whiskey, quit wasting your time with this man. He doesn't want to marry you. Find some self-respect and tell him it's over.

Can I just be clear and say that it's not something I feel I can't talk to him about..

Why? If you can't talk to your (future) husband about marriage, what sort of relationship is that? There seems to be such a power imbalance in this relationship OP that is really worrying.

it's not something I feel I can't talk about .. meaning I feel like I can talk to him about it.

cheers thanks so much I'll have a read through them all now.

This post has definitely put things into perspective, I know now how naive I've been to all of this. He's due home soon, and my DS is away at my mums for the night, so we can have a real good talk about it all, I'm going to say to him that I want to be married before the end of the year. We don't have to tell anyone, and we can always have a ceremony and celebrate a wedding at a later date. I want security for me and my son at the end of the day, not a party.

If he is reluctant at all to any of my suggestions then I'm seriously going to have to consider being a single mum and taking care of my own shit.

Good luck @DarwinChrist
Although marriage would give you financial security, if he does propose after an ultimatum it's a bit of a hollow victory. It's a shame, you deserve better and he should want to marry you without being pushed. You will know in your heart of hearts what's right. Good luck x

I think the thing about a bloke proposing is that you know he actually wants to be with you. He's made the decision that you are the one.
You propose to him and he may say yes but just be going through the motions. I'm sure we have all been with people en it's just easier to stay.

The other problem with living with someone without setting the date is that the reasons for getting married can sometimes be more convenience than love. I agree that if you have to push this long you seriously have to think about how much he acknowledges your hopes, dreams and happiness.

Sorry just seen your last post. Fingers crossed, good luck.

It wouldn't be a hollow victory , it would be legal protection for the OP and ds. That's the important thing. It's faffing about wanting the gesture and sentiment that's got the OP in this position in the first place. As far as we know, their relationship is otherwise fine. Although some of it suggests financial abuse, but I think how he reacts to this serious chat will confirm that or blow it out of the water.

Wow, he's done you up like a kipper hasn't he? £200 a month for a cook, cleaner, mother and fuck buddy.
Where's your self respect? Don't you think you're worth a bit more? You need to insist on full access to bank accounts as a minimum, having to ask for money and explain what for? Never having your hair cut or taking your child on a day out? This is not even a relationship do quite why you want to escalate it to a marriage I really don't know.
He doesn't want to marry you, simply because 'his' money is more important, he knows if you marry you'll be entitled to half the house/savings/pension etc.
You've been so naive getting yourself into this state, he can chuck you out anytime he likes, and don't bank on getting custody of your child either, after all, if he throws you out you have no home of your own and no job or income to even get a place of your own. The child will stay with him, in the home he's always known, with his father. No doubt his mum will take over childcare whilst he's at work.....
If that isn't incentive enough to sort this mess out then I don't know what is.
For reference, I'm a sahm, have been for ten years, joint accounts, joint savings, name on the mortgage despite having no income and poor credit.

@category12 oh yes I completely agree with you re the legal/financial aspect. Don't think anyone doubts that.
But that's why I also made the point of saying in your heart of hearts you'll know what to do, as we don't know the full details of the relationship. It would be a shame to end up in a marriage of convenience as a least-worst option (implying being single may be better than op current situation).

OP, do you know how much he earns? You've said a couple of conflicting things - this isn't to pick holes btw, just to point out he may not be telling you the truth.

You've said you get child benefit, if he earns 70k and you get paid CB, you will have had to give them his NI number and they will be claiming it back through his tax code. Or are you claiming to cover your NI stamp but not being paid?

You've also said he brings home about 5k/month. This isn't a 70k salary take home pay. 70k take home is about 4K/month less pension etc contributions.

Hope your chat goes well tonight.

Good luck OP. Keep us posted.

You say it's not a dealbreaker... It should be!
Really listen to the previous posters with no vested interest in you.

Sorry posted mid thread.
I see you are taking everything on board.
As you were. And I hope the talk goes well.

Best of luck Darwin. Hope you get the response you want

Good luck OP.

Good luck