New Man requesting i wear lingerie to date

[WiseToTheLies]

Ive been seeing someone for a few weeks now and weve dtd. He told me he likes lingerie and holdups in particular and would like me to wear them for our next date with heels.

Would this bother you? My heart sunk when he said it as its just not me - aside from the fact it'd look bizzare in spring / summer and is a bit... officey.

Its making me so anxious Im considering not seeing him again.

What would you do? Just say no and hope he forgets about it? Apart from this he's great.

Dr Morbius - why would I say that?

You don't know anything about me, how can you know what I will or will not say?

Do people on here think that having had sex already somehow erodes pre existing boundaries then ? I have seen this referred to more than once as a reason that op shouldn't object to being told what to wear

That's a scary thought

men are more visually stimulated
Tosh!
Women are just as likely to be aroused by looking at things that they find arousing, that's just bullshit used to justify women serving mens needs

OP's been seeing him a few weeks. Now, because they've had sex, he's her partner and entitled to ask. Pull the other one.

He is no more "entitled" to anything just because they have had sex

That is a very slippery slope.

I read kittybiscuits' post as sarcastically outlining his thought processes as she imagines them, not the poster's own beliefs.

He is clearly not entitled to anything. I don't think there's anything wrong with him asking politely, if they've established a sexual relationship. There would definitely be something wrong if he continued to press the issue after OP has said she's not happy with it.

On another topic, I had no idea suspenders and stockings were dated. I thought they were bang on trend, what with the endless vintage look and all. I love them, personally, but I understand why many people don't.

Thanks PoorYorick also being derisive about previous posters who said as much. I think I need to crank up my scarasmometer.

I get you now, kitty

Neuroscience has not been able to confirm or deny that there are biological differences in processing between male and female brains morbius. What we know about the brain in terms of how it actually functions is in its infancy so it is rather early to make a broad statement claiming there are biological differences.

There is simply not enough scientific data to prove whether men are socialised to objectify women by the patriarchy or whether male brains are sexually stimulated visually because of inherent neurological differences.

It is therefore a pointless argument to have (or to make confident statements on).

I don't really think this thread is about the new man anyway. It is about how the op is feeling uncomfortable and is also feeling like she has to think about the consequences of saying so.

Either the man is not right for her or she is not confident asserting herself on her own boundaries with men. Ergo I think she should focus on that issue and not see this man again.

"It's about the fact that 10,000 years of patriarchy have supported men to feel that female sexuality is all about catering to male fantasy rather than the women's own preferences. And women have been conditioned to go along with that

You would say that."

Actually I'm going to come back to this, because Dr Morbius's intended meaning is clearly something along the lines of, 'You're one of those mad feminists, so obviously you would object to a woman dressing up for a man's pleasure'.

What I'm actually saying is pointing out that in any male/female interaction where you can't imagine the situation being reversed, it's worth taking a bit of time to look at what's going on. In this case, can we imagine a woman messaging a bloke she's only known for a short time in order to instruct him as to what he should wear on their next date? Hmm, I'll go with something between 'no' and 'very unlikely'. Because there isn't a general expectation that men should cater to women's sexual or erotic fantasies, whereas the whole lingerie and heels schtick is very much a mainstream part of public-expressed male porn eroticism.

In a long-term relationship this is possibly fine IF both participants are equally choosing to play into that highly sexist, pornified relationship dynamic. In the present situation, the OP is clearly stating that it makes her feel uncomfortable. Which is not unreasonable, given that she's in a new relationship with a bloke who is less interested in finding out about who she is and what turns her on than he is in requesting that she act out his erotic fantasies.

So what I am actually saying is: this is a giant red flag with a large side-order of sexism, selfishness and patriarchy 101. Obviously if people choose not to see it that way, then that's their business. But that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Offred , some men do seem to have a difference with their brains being in their pants, so DrM's theory might be relevant in that respect.

The heart sinking, activated gut feeling is an indicator that the relationship is not a keeper. It may foretell of danger ahead, or not. At the very minimum, imho, it is defining a fundamental incompatibility and the Op should walk away without having to fulfill some misperceived requirement to provide a dissertation to defend her choice. One doesn't need to have the vocabulary to enunciate that feeling to act on it. Often times one word can sum it up: "no".

I just don't get what the big deal is here. He's expressed a preference, something he would like, you get to decide what you wear. If that's not your thing then say so!

I don't see it as creepy. Why is sex not allowed to be important in the early stages of a relationship? It always was for me!

If he objects to you saying no, THAT would be creepy.

Effezh pinpoints it exactly, well said.

Because he overstepped a boundary in a relationship in the very early stages.

Effzeh sorry for the misspelling.

I don't think anyone argues that this phenomenon exists band. What is not clear is whether this is learned behaviour as a result of socialisation or biological differences. The issue is with the claim that it is Just. How. Men. Are.

We do not know that. We do however know that men are socialised to objectify women, personally, without the further development of neuroscience to settle the matter finally I prefer that working theory as I believe it is unlikely that there would be such significant differences between men and women related to inherent biological differences.

However, what is the purpose of having a debate about whether someone who we have no real information about is right or wrong?

The op feels uncomfortable and doesn't feel able to say. It is simple to me therefore that she shouldn't see this man again and should just work out why she is not able to be herself with him, is it him or her that is causing her to feel like that?

This reminds me of a guy who used to ask me to wear bodycon dresses to dates. It is creepy and inappropriate to start expecting people to indulge fetishes when you're still getting to know each other.

I'm untroubled by his preference but it's pretty early in the relationship for him to be suggesting what op should wear, especially if it's very different from what she would choose.

I was the poster who asked how normal we would consider it for the OP to ask a man she has been dating for a short while to wear a specific form of 'sexy' underwear and uncomfortable shoes to their next date, because she found the idea arousing. And I agree with Effzeh's elaboration of the reasons why this is a deeply unlikely scenario.

Just as on another recent thread, I pointed out that in warm weather women don't shout on the street at overweight topless men to 'Put it away, fatty!' or indeed tell random male strangers to smile, because, after all, men's job is to be decorative for the female gaze, isn't it?

Admit it, if a poster came on here and said 'AIBU to ask the man I've been dating to wear a specific kind of underwear and shoes to our next date?' the words 'weird' and 'controlling' would feature.

If he's asking this early in the relationship then its only going to get worse.. Turn up in jeans and t shirt and see what his reaction is. say you thought he was joking about lingerie as you don't wear it.

I was being sarcastic, Offred.
Sorry I wasn't more obvious. Slides chair next to kittybiscuits.

effzeh Brilliantly put. This is what I needed to hear 20 years ago when my short term boyfriend demanded something similar! We could have both avoided a twenty year battle over my body (I controlled him by not playing out his fantasies apparently )

op if you're not into it now, you'll be even less into it in 5 years time, in my experience. At this point you can just agree to differ in sexual preferences and part ways amicably

Isn't this one of the differences between men and women, that is usually articulated under the phrase "men are more visually stimulated"
I think it's BS that women aren't visually stimulated, and it's the reason why many men who look like a dog's dinner still think they could get a gorgeous girlfriend. Personally I am extremely visually stimulated sexually and get turned off if I don't find a partner physically attractive. I'm definitely a woman too.

I just don't get what the big deal is here. He's expressed a preference, something he would like, you get to decide what you wear
But expressing a preference would be saying, "I love stockings and heels" and leaving it to her. But he specifically asked her to wear them on the next date. She is now in the situation where she has to say no (not ideal) or go ahead and do it despite feeling awkward (even worse).

Ha! Sorry... clearly too distracted binge watching Star Trek TNG on Netflix....