social services took my beautiful children

[user1491683745]

it really is not fair to do it to someone who absolutely loves and adores them they really need me and are probably so unhappy i am so done with life and really really want them with me

What's to say social workers aren't already good at that? I've seen so many changed lives in my job, and it's all unseen and unknown about (because it's peoples private lives) so who are you to say we can't do our job well?

So many people here bashing SS when it wasn't even them who removed them from the home. The police removed them from the home. Op has confirmed this. They were removed after the 11 year old made disclosures to Childline. Op has also confirmed this. A volunteer from Childline has earlier in the thread explained they only break confidentiality when there is a fear that the child might die. That's how serious these allegations are. The op was really evasive but it sounds like it was explained to her that the full extent of the allegations won't be revealed during an ongoing investigation. Similar to any investigation when someone is suspected of a crime. The op may be entirely innocent but in the event of what are clearly really serious allegations, keeping the children safe always has to take priority over the upset removing them would cause. Honestly shocked that people are arguing against this

It's been many many years since I was taken into care but social services arrived with the police. I may be very wrong but I thought the police would contact the social services to attend and vice versa as the children need to be placed somewhere that day/night, even on a temporary basis. They would not be taken to a police station. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

a volunteer from Childline has earlier in the thread explained they only break confidentiality when there is a fear that the child might die. That's how serious these allegations are

That's not true. That's not the only reason for reporting a concern. And it was the OP who said that Childline were concerned for his safety, which isn't the same as " he might die" .

Also we don't know that Childline " broke confidentiality " because they may have had the child's permission to pass it on to the authorities.

Newdaylight - if your response is aimed at me the reason I can talk is that I have been right in there at the thick of it when Social Workers have shown that they are not thinking things through properly. They don't see the obvious just act. It is not only the once that I have wondered if social services are afraid of speaking out against certain people.
Unfortunately I can not go into details here.

anne they might be taken to a police station if they had to be removed immediately but there was no emergency placement ready.

As this situation has some element of forward planning I would be surprised if the children spent much time in a police station.
But anything can happen.

User - are you serious?! Where do you think social workers should get this training in super powers? It sounds like what you are describing is a crystal ball!

I volunteer for ChildLine too. Have done for a long time. There are a few reasons we pass things on, all of which are very clear on the website if you want to look. We almost always explain to the child why we are doing what we are doing too. Last thing they need is the shock.

We try to maintain confidentiality as far as we can- we are there to listen. We dont break for some pretty horrendous things. If we did, and sent the police/ social round and a child denied it, they may lose their trust in us. If we are the only people they speak to and that happens... well, doesn't bear thinking about.

I'm sorry this has happened to you OP, but if your child spoke to us to the extent that we breached, I'm afraid it is serious.

It makes me really sad that some people are so distrustful of the service. I've met hundreds of volunteers over the years. The training is intensive and very hard. It's not easy to take these calls. Everyone I have ever met there is giving their time because they care and realise it's sometimes really hard to talk in real life. Gosh

Unfortunately Miscella I am serious! I don't expect super powers training but I do expect common sense and how to apply common sense. It is not possible to give you the info publicly, it just would not be right. This is not about something that would need special training anyone with sense would see through it.

Here is an example for Miscella. I am sure this could happen a few times, if not a lot of times.
Man is asked to leave the house which is owned solely in the wife's name as the only income earner. He leaves and is told don't come back. He goes to Court to try to get access. Judge sees that he knows nothing about children. Judge says no access. By this time about a year has passed. Man makes allegations to Social Services re woman not treating children right. Woman and children live high up in a building no window access to see in. Social Workers come to flat and see the position of house, woman owns house and car. Man does not pay child support. Social Workers believe the man and force children through tests and assessments. Medics see History of man's conduct on file at previous hospital appointments, see his conduct, see Court Order and solicitor's correspondence.
Social Workers cant accept they made an error upset children and woman to assist an abusive man trying to control woman and children.
How is that difficult to see through? Social Workers assisting an abusive man is not acceptable to me, and hopefully others.
How exactly does that not warrant an apology at the very least.

User 1489 while I am not denying SS make mistakes I do not see how your example shows that. Where is the evidence earlier that the man is likely to be lying and of course the woman wouldn't be mistreating the children?

I thought it was reasonably clear. I will try again.
Woman is sole income earner and owner of the house and car. The man has use of these facilities. He will neither work nor want. Woman gets sick of this and says get out of the house so man loses access to house car and money. Has to provide for himself.
In 4 to 6 months he takes a Court case and fails to get access. Instead of taking that up with the male judge he is angry with woman.
6 to 8 months after this Social Workers arrive with a tale about woman not providing for kids. (The man has still not provided for the children) He has not been in the house for about 1 year. The windows are very high far beyond anyone possibly looking in the windows to see what happens inside the house. He does not know what is going on or not but he wants vengeance on the woman so he makes false allegations.
Social Workers can see that the windows are high up and how many stairs it took to get to the house. Social workers see the children doing what it is claimed they don't or cant but they still believe in the man.
Years have passed and I know the outcome of these children and these children have proved that the allegations were lies.
One of the children had been in hospital prior to Social Workers coming and the man's conduct noted on the child's medical records. Drs at hospital had told him his actions were wrong. It is noted on the file that he refused to comply with Drs instructions. Court Order and legal papers were taken to the Hospital to show the Consultant who immediately got that the man had made a false allegation. The medical file has been obtained and it is stated that the parents are not living together. So it is noted that he is not at the house seeing anything at all. He is not committed to the children by failing to pay child support. He only want to bully and demand. He was beaten but still trying to get control of woman and children.
By forcing the children to the hospital the man gained illegal access contrary to the Court Order.

I know this man and he is still telling lies, he makes claims about things but when invited to visit the Government office to get his claims investigated he refuses.
He is a phallically fragile little creep and I expect such conduct from him but for female social workers to assist illegally access to any child is not acceptable. To assist a bully is not acceptable.
The proof is the Court Order and the statement that the man is not living in the house.

What some posters seem to be forgetting is what happens when social services and police don't believe children and don't investigate properly. Yes, sometimes children and ex-partners lie to 'get back' at someone. But sometimes it's true and it's called child protection. It's child centred. As it should be. People complaining about how long it takes need to realise that in continually talking down the service they make it worse as it discourages people from entering the profession.

Nope, sorry User, still don't see what fault can be laid at SW's feet. Allegations (no matter how spurious have to be investigated.) You said yourself (I think, your post was still difficult to follow) that by different agencies working together this case was proved false.(which is as should be, evidence from many sources is more credible than just one.

What happened to " we believe you " to this poor mother ?

How about "we believe you" in relation to the child?

I am stating the legal position that the parents are innocent until they are proved guilty.

That's a misconception. The legal position is that they are presumed innocent. The plain fact is that it doesn't necessarily mean that they actually are innocent - after all, up to the moment that the jury pronounced the verdict, the Moors murderers were presumed innocent. And if there is evidence that children may be in danger, we don't take the risk.

What happened to " we believe you " to this poor mother ?

If social workers took that attitude we would never get involved. I don't automatically believe parents because parents lie and minimise when they have harmed their children.

This is MN not court of law. When a poster says they have been raped, we don't say " oh you were asking for it as you were drunk " as the barrister will say in court.

If a woman says " my partner has just died " we don't say " why do you care, you were a crap wife anyway " . Even though that might be true .

Someone posts " my wife has cancer and the waiting time for treatment is 6 weeks" . We don't lecture him about scare resources in the NHS and how it's his own fault because he voted Tory.

We accept most posters at face value and offer support. This isn't the place for social workers to moan about how hard their job is , they can start a new thread for that.

It's not the place to analyse the faults in the child protection system or to launch a robust defence of it.

We should be believe and supporting the OP. Because a terrible thing has happened to her and her children, however you look at it.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to a single poster that the allegation might be true AND the OP might be totally innocent and know nothing about it . For example, a relative might be sexually abusing one of the children.

No wonder the OP is long gone. Some of you are high on political correctness and defending your own postion and very low on empathy.

Olive that occurred to me, I said Way way up thread it may be something she wasn't aware of. Sad this has kept going and turned into what it has.

My apologies RJ

I agree it's very sad how it's turned out. Not just for this OP who I'm sure is long gone. But for others is a snilar situation who might come accross it later, looking for advice and help.

They might as well read the Daily Fail.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to a single poster that the allegation might be true AND the OP might be totally innocent and know nothing about it . For example, a relative might be sexually abusing one of the children.

I think that occurred to everyone love.

Threads sometimes take on a life of their own after the OP has left, and turn into barmy arguments about not much.

I'm assuming OP is long gone because she is a bit busy right now. Hopefully she has some real life support and is less in the dark right now.

She doesn't owe us any further explanation or elaboration.

0live, your assertion that no one in this thread has assumed that op could be innocent is incorrect. Most people have been neutral. Anyone who comes in and says it's ok Hun, those meanies at SS are just out to get you can only possibly be talking out of their arses just as much as anyone who tries to directly condemn her.

I didnt say that no one has assumed she's innocent. Many people have.

I was replying to the person who said that we can't believe and support the OP because we should believe the child instead . I was just saying they might BOTH be telling the truth.

But RV had posted that and I missed it.

Surely the point should be that Social Workers need more training to be able to see the cases needing action, the cases set up by a person with ulterior motives and those who really are being bad to children by choice more than a lack of education or understanding.

Usually I try not to comment on threads about SS too much because I've had multiple bad experiences with them (not about my parenting) whereas they seem to get an awful lot of support on this site and it's not worth the aggravation. But I wanted to say in regards to cases set up by people with ulterior motives that this happens frighteningly often and as it's often by other professionals and people in authority no one dares question it.