I feel excluded by my MIL. What can I do?

[PuddingontheBrain]

To begin with, I think my inlaws are nice and well meaning people. I would actually like to improve my relationship with them so looking for some advice.

To give some background, my MIL absolutely loves babies and small children and her adult life has always revolved around her kids. She now has one DCG; my DD who is 3, who she absolutely adores and who has become the most important thing in her life.

I definitely try to see this interest in a positive light but it is so intense that whenever we see PIL, I feel excluded by MIL. To be fair, we don't see them that often (6-7 times a year for 3-6 days at a time) but I am very much made to feel like I should melt into the shadows to allow MIL to 'enjoy' her granddaughter. We saw them for a week at Christmas and whenever I'd enter the room; I could almost see the dismay on MIL's face before immediately piping up that she was just about to take DD out for a walk and that I should stay at home to have a rest. We have been on holiday a few times with PIL and they always want to take DD out on their own and end up doing nice things with her; like pony rides or going to the beach - things I'd like the join in with too. If I ever do get 2 minutes with DD as soon as MIL is back she'll interrupt and coax DD over to play with her.

To be clear; I gladly accept MIL's offers to take DD most of the time; she takes her out on her own, plays loads of games with her, reads her bed time stories and puts her to bed. When they visit I swap my hours around at work so I go into work and they look after DD during the day (they absolutely love this and have been asking to do it since she was born). It's not like I deny them one on one time with DD, I know it's important for them to get their own time with her.

DH is visiting them this weekend and I decided to stay at home to get some time to myself. He has sent me photos of MIL and SIL making a cake with DD which is a lovely thing to do. I just wish I was included in this kind of activity when I visit. But the underlying message I receive is almost 'you get so much more time with DD than us, leave us alone'.

I feel really unhappy about the situation and I am starting to resent my MIL more and more. I am currently pregnant so hormones aren't making me feel any better. I have tried to talk to DH about it but he says I am imagining it and that MIL is a normal grandmother. I don't think I am imagining it but maybe I am being oversensitive? I wonder should I just accept MIL as she is and at least be grateful that she helps out and is a loving GM.

"Not all grandparent relationships with regards to their grandchildren are healthy relationships by any means."

Of course not. But they are not unhealthy either-despite the way you present them on every single thread you comment on.

Stop projecting and seek appropriate help for your own issues rather than catastrophising every single niggle in other people's relationships. You're the pil equivalent of "My dp forgot to wipe his shoes...." "LTB"

Bertrand You're just as guilty of projecting and insisting everything is rosy when it's not. On my thread about my PILs you spectacularly missed the point and you were actually quite nasty to me.

Astro55 your last paragraph! That.

The usual suspects, the usual nonsense. Please don't explain any more how reasonable you have been OP because it is really obvious that you have been beyond reasonable. Do you think your OH will get on side and support you?

I think children can benefit hugely by spending time alone with grandparents. However, this situation sounds completely over the top.
I work full time and there is no way I would spend a large chunk of my holiday time away from my children.
You and your dh sound very passive in all the arrangements. Surely if you are going on holiday you have plans for things you want to do as a family?
It sounds as though you are just along for the ride. I'd you continue with these trips, you need to plan plenty of activities for you to do with your dd a
nd make that clear from the outset.
I have to say I find the whole dynamic a bit odd and would hate to spend so much of my holiday time with extended family (either mine or dh's).

OP, you will never be part of the family. No matter what you do, however nice you are.

The problem is u have let things happen the way MIL wanted. She has put you in your place if you will. When she come to visit, she is in charge of your baby and u do the shopping and cooking. Or just send the baby to her and she'll be mummy. You are not part of their 'group' like SIL is and u will never be.

To change this is going to be hard work. You need to get your husband to sit down and understand how u feel. Which is going to be a task in itself as he will always put this mothers' feeling first, make excuses, tell you u r mad or depressive n it's all in ur imagination.

Maybe consult a relationship counsellor so u can discuss things rationally. Show him this thread, you have been so nice about ur ILS at all times I see no harm.

Next stage will be to sit down with MIL and tell her how u feel and define new boundaries.

It's likely she will play the victim and tell u how she's only trying to help you and u are taking everything the wrong way. Don't back down or feel ashamed.

Maybe if u can't face it, write everything in a letter with examples of how they exclude you. She's not going to like having her set up changed. So u r going to have to have a fight on ur hands - an emotionally abusive one.

Does she have any other grandkids? What's her relationship with them and their mothers? How often does she see them?

The key person here Pudding is your DH. He needs to be on your side, problem is he is not and perhaps will never be either. He has been conditioned to think that this is normal behaviour from his mother.

BTW you do not mention FIL; is he still around?

I just can't understand why MILS behave like this. It's great that they like to spend time with your DD, but it kind of seems like you're just the production machine enabling that. They might as well have had a a surrogate who was out of the picture to carry their DGC.

I would assert yourself over holidays, when you're with them and specifically say your have X or Y planned with DD on Thurs and Fri, and you'd love MIL /SIL to come along with you.

That way the day out is your idea and they can't tell you to stay and rest.

If they decline to come, then there's not much you can do.

I'm not sure how well you get on with your SIL, but do you have a friendship with her? Perhaps if she saw you as a friend and not just a SIL, that could help the situation.

Do you speak to your MIL on the phone? Just catching up and seeing what she's doing? If there is any kind of activity you and her and SIL could do together (i.e spa/massage) that might help to make your relationship closer.

I think it's good for them to spend time with your DD on her own, but I would be very upset with the disappointment look that MIL had on her face when I entered the room. In fact it would make me want to spend even less time than I currently did with them.

I'd soon start making excuses to not go there, because it does feel like you're being rejected in a way. As though you really aren't important.

I am very aware that they need to spend time together without me

I disagree with this actually-why is that something we should be very aware of! My in laws spend very little time with our children without us being there-I don't think that's particularly unusual?!

Your husband seems to be totally disregarding your feelings here and I think that would upset me more than anything.

Its because Sandy they feel entitled to act like it; its their right and no-one has ever wanted to or has been able to pull them up on their overt behaviour. MIL really does think she is doing nothing wrong here, she only cares about having her own needs met through OPs child. Using OPs child to basically fill her emotional void is wrong on all levels.

I would also think Pudding that your MIL has no friends or any real social life outside of her own family unit and in turn now your child. There is reason for that; such people really do want others to stay clear of them and they do not want to know.

It's not nice or appropriate or ok to treat your DiL like a talking incubator and work hard on excluding and avoiding her as much as possible.

That's not defensible. It's plain rude.

MiL is happy for her own family to be around but wants DiL out of the picture as much as she can manage: that's because if DiL is present she is not primary Mummy. Again, boundary issues. She isn't Mummy, she's Grandma. 'Love bombing' - which seems to be the solution to everything, maybe someone should try that with Trump? - MiL further expects OP to have all the consideration and make all the effort with their relationship that MiL is blatantly not bothering with. Rule one of having a good relationship with your GC - Don't piss off their parents and make their experience of being with you an unpleasant one.

I never have got this 'time alone' with kids business, I think it leads too easily to this playing parenting fantasy which then causes problems when it gets out of hand. I'd always thought maybe this was misunderstanding between generations until I was sitting in a meeting where I was the youngest woman there by about 20 years, and one woman shared a picture of her baby grandchild. As we were admiring it, one colleague actually said "isn't it a shame there isn't some way to get rid of the parents so you could have it". I was shocked by the tone, she wasn't kidding.

My in laws spend very little time with our children without us being there-I don't think that's particularly unusual?!

It's unusual in my group of friends.

Most of my circle believe it's important for our children to have relationships with others independently of us. In life there will be times where our children want to to confide in others who aren't their parents, or simply to gain another perspective. If your children don't have independent relationships with others then this inhibits this.

In addition, we all relish time with our spouses to be partners, rather than parents. This strengthens our relationship and we are better parents for it.

It is beneficial to the whole family for each menember to seek out and cherish independant relationships. That's not the issue. The issue is when there's no balance to this.

Yep husband is pretty protective of his mum and her feelings. She does indeed lead quite an empty life apart from her DC. She took early retirement in her 50s but doesn't really have any hobbies. I think she was just waiting (im)patiently to become a GM and now it's finally happened she is in overdrive.

I do think it's important to get one on one time; I realise the dynamic changes and I wouldn't want to make PIL feel like they are being supervised. There is a FIL btw! He just does everything to accommodate MIL.

Good ideas about making my own suggestions. I do think I'm a bit of a pushover! I should be more assertive. MIL certainly is and is very good at getting her own way.

Sandy mentioned phoning. No, I don't phone her as she only ever asks about DD and now the pregnancy, but never shows an interest in me as a person. But maybe I should try phoning her a bit more. It could help.

I will talk to DH about how I am feeling when they are back.

Just because the OP (and, incidentally her husband who sees no problem with it) has allowed this behaviour to happen, does not mean at all that MIL does not feel entitled to behave so fucking rudely. One or two posters are relentlessly trying to pin this on the OP. It has a strong whiff of victim-blaming.

My MIL used to grab the baby off me all the time. What made it worse was that as each new baby came along, that was her focus. She lost interest once the child was big enough to struggle to get off her lap and out of her arms. The insane visiting stopped completely at top end of primary school.

But reading your OP, what your MIL is doing is exactly what my DM did when my DC were young, and I really appreciated it. We had 4 under 6 and it was so lovely to sit down and chat to DF or read a book and just leave the children to DM.

I really get that feeling that the ILs see you as an incubator for their grandchild, and I wonder if you might be better cutting back the visits. 2 days at a time rather than a week would make it easier to d/w. Once you have the new one this will go one of two ways. Either she will try to take over your DD more than ever (which TBH you might be glad of with 2 of them) or she may turn out like my MIL and drop DD completely for the new baby. You need to discuss that with your DH before it happens because I was taken by surprise and didn't tackle it.

"There is a FIL btw! He just does everything to accommodate MIL".

Thought so re him and also re your MIL not having any friends or social life to speak of either. People can and do act like this, they feel entitled to do so. Your DH is basically doing what his father has done as well being both weak and a bystander.

But MIL tells her not to join in.

Pudding,

re your comment:-
"No, I don't phone her as she only ever asks about DD and now the pregnancy, but never shows an interest in me as a person. But maybe I should try phoning her a bit more. It could help".

I've done this in the past re my own MIL. It did not work because she was not interested in wanting to have a relationship with me. Your role to her is mere vessel for her grandchildren, people who she regards as hers.

It doesn't make sense either - when I phone she doesn't ask about me, but maybe if I phone more she will?
Er no, she'll carry on doing what she's always done. Talk about the children and pregnancy. You're an incubator, remember?!

What's that saying? Do what you've always done, get what you've always got?