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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those of us having to coparent with a narc or very difficult ex partner thread 5

485 replies

Lilacpink40 · 17/02/2017 09:47

Open to everyone, please come and share your experience. Will post a link to useful support information below.

Previous Thread (4) is here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2803565-Support-thread-for-those-of-us-having-to-co-parent-with-a-narc-or-very-difficult-exh-thread-4?watched=1&msgid=67018306#67018306

WN= Wank narc (aka Shit Head SH or exP or whatever you prefer).

OP posts:
pudding21 · 01/03/2017 15:25

Teabay: high five for staying strong. I am learning from you :)

So today I saw the kids as had to pick him up form the car garage because his car needs some work. The eldest would hardly even look at me, he is filling his head with shit I am sure. He sent me a text last night to tell me that he was inconsolable and going to sleep in his bed, like father of the year. i phoned straight away and he was actually asleep.

The eldest told me that I had said that seeing his daddy cry made him upset and he is angry with me. I wish he would stop it. Just stop it!!

i have them back this afternoon, they are with me for a week so i am hoping can balance it out. I get it though, i am not upset with DS but he blames me cos I was the one that left, and he sees his daddy is "hurting".

Why??? Why can't he act like a grown up and keep it together for the kids :(

bibliomania · 01/03/2017 17:02

Lilac, delighted to contribute to that thread.

Teabay, grrr, it's so infuriating. His priorities are clear to see.

plot, if he is a N, you're never going to have a conversation where he gets it. You can't wait for permission or understanding from him. All you can do is give up on that hope and make the decision yourself.

pudding, I've had so much of that and it's not fair. Emotional manipulation of the dcs is the single worst thing they do.

BoringUsername17 · 01/03/2017 17:12

Dear all, oops I posted under a name change as NearlyFree earlier. Thanks Lilac and others. "You walked into my outstretched hand" is indeed a classic, like you hit my fist with your face.

I've had a call from the Children's Services early intervention team today. Ironically 3 weeks since I was first referred. God knows how long the late intervention team would take to respond. I'm cooperating of course but I'm worried that the kids, who are teens, are not going to want to talk to anyone about WN. They blame me for reporting their dad for pushing one of them across the hall and pinning him up against the wall. As far as they are concerned it was just a one off and I have over-reacted. They blame me for throwing their dad out as they see it. Problem is I did too good a job of covering up his bullying and intimidation of me so they don't understand how scared and stressed I was.

BoringUsername17 · 01/03/2017 17:17

bibliomania yes the manipulation of the DC is the pits. Mine told the DC that he had to leave because I had falsely accused him of being an abuser and he was afraid of "what other lies" I had made up about him. They are furious with me for persecuting him.

nicenewdusters · 01/03/2017 20:07

Wow, just caught up with you all. That's some pretty hard core WN ness going on. As I learnt from this thread, you can't play nicely with them. You can't expect a normal reaction, you can't behave towards them as you would others. Grey Rock and Ice Queen have been my weapons of choice!

Using the dc is, I agree, the absolute worst thing they can do. It makes you feel so impotent, and so conflicted as to what to say/do. There's no "right" answer, as if you let them see the real him it would break their hearts. If you lie and make excuses, it gives them the wrong messages as to how people should treat each other, and what they should accept from others. You can do the "they'll see what he's like when they're older." But that just sets them up for a massive shock down the line, maybe resenting you for not telling them more, and disappointment.

My approach - which only time will tell if it's worked, has been age appropriate truth. No slating or nastiness, but if I know it's behaviour they/I would condemn in others I condemn it in him. I've shielded them a lot from how I feel about the break up, but probably a bit too much. They got to a point where they thought only dad was sad, and deserving of sympathy. I'd suggest letting them see some of your sadness, frustration etc. But ultimately you want to be the strong one for them, basically the adult!

I try not to ask too much about what goes on between them and their dad. I try to keep it light and chatty, make their time with him positive. They see him regularly for decent periods of time, which makes things easier. If I strongly disagree with something he's said or done I try and talk about it there and then, not dwell on it. Once it's been said I try and put it out of my mind. However, I'm 2 years down the line, so I've had a lot of practice.

It is a tightrope. You want to protect them, preserve their relationship with their dad, be fair where possible and protect your own sanity. It's really hard, shame the answer isn't in the WN manual !

PurpleThursday · 01/03/2017 20:20

😆😆 Look what I just saw...

Support thread for those of us having to coparent with a narc or very difficult ex partner thread 5
Natsku · 01/03/2017 20:39

The way they use the children to hurt us, to me that's legitimately child abuse, my lawyer thinks the same way. Its hurting the children, maybe not obviously but its doing harm to them. But because WNs are the only victims in their minds they can't realise that.

Teabay · 01/03/2017 20:48

pudding It's nice of you to say you're learning from me, but I'm learning from the others on here!
Dusters nice to hear from you - I agree that Ice Queen is my most effective means of communication....

Teabay · 01/03/2017 20:54

dusters I learnt from you that it was the best thing to be truthful with the DC - even if they are only primary school age.
I'm now much happier with the tactic. I'm just honest and say things like, "Well your Dad has said that he finds it difficult to do Wednesday after school now and that he has other things to do, so you won't see him until the weekends now". I could sugar coat it (in the way that I did for the past 10 years when he was an ignorant WN for guests and family) but now I don't.
It's much easier and more honest for the DC.

ontheball75 · 01/03/2017 22:12

so much going on, on the thread, I had a lovely email recently from wn's parents telling me they can understand his threats to kill as they find me frustrating to. In other words I don't do as they want.

Wn always have a way of twisting things into not being there fault.

greencarbluecar · 01/03/2017 22:24

purple OMG WN SPRAY!! We need to market NarcAway products.

Definitely a market for them for people here alone. It's striking me yet again how similar they all are, as I sit here reading your stories of lies, denial, twisting and manipulation nodding along with the ache of heartbreaking recognition. Completely second what dusters said (she is wise) about not being able to talk to them in the way you would other people. It's unbelievably frustrating and incredibly hard to come to terms with, but you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

And the truth is irrelevant where they're concerned. The level of history rewriting is astounding. I'm trying (not always succeeding) to learn to laugh at how ludicrous it is rather than let the devastation at yet more lies and nastiness take over, and remember that it must be awful to be such a twisted, deluded and disgraceful individual who thrives on controlling and bullying the very people he is supposed to love.

Lilacpink40 · 01/03/2017 22:34

Plot he is so much a manchild "'if I go, I won't be back'...tears start and he tells me he loves me but I have to stop this because if I push him away he will have to go...he doesn't go despite me saying it's for the best."

I think most of us have had this at some point from our WNs. Years before my ex went off with OW I'd asked him to go as he was so cruel and selfish, he begged and cried on his knees to stay and I caved in. Nothing changed. Ask yourself what you would suggest a friend should do? What do DC and you need?

"When I talk about feelings I may as well be reciting some ancient forgotten language" has he ever expressed feelings in terms of "I feel sad for X because...", i.e genuinely shown empathy? It can be easier to hide then you might expect as you may have assumed that you've seen it in other ways, and narcs are good actors!

Agree with everyone on here about the manipulation of DCs being sick. So nasty to twist and abuse young minds for their own gain.Angry

Purple loving that spray, did you create the image?
Grin20 for me pleaseGrin

OP posts:
BoringUsername17 · 01/03/2017 22:35

on the ball Hmm at email from his parents. But that shows you where he gets it from. They have created a monster but they see him as golden boy.
I think my WN has got worse since his mum died. She would take him down a peg or two. WN has always been daddy's favourite. His dad will always bail him out financially. A grown man who earns £80k, but asked his dad for his xmas present money early so he could buy new wheels for his bike!

theoracleofdelphi · 02/03/2017 07:16

Lilac - OW told me all this when she contacted me to say she'd gone "no contact with him for the good of her mental health". To be fair, she didn't know she was OW because he told her we'd been divorced for years. He totally fucked her up - see a pattern forming here? He told her she was "the love of his life". I showed her a screenshot of his text telling me she was "just a friend he should never have had sex with" and "it was dull". She said he wanted her to have sex with him while he was dressed as a woman. It's laughable! I blocked them both at that point! GrinGrin

bibliomania · 02/03/2017 09:24

ontheball, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

I appreciate the thoughtful posts on how to manage with the dcs. I very much agree. Like they do in schools, I also label the behaviour not the person: "Your dad didn't make a good choice" rather than "Your dad is a a total bollocks". Tempting as that is.

With the thing this week of him refusing contact unless it was entirely on his terms, I said honestly to dd that I want her to have good contact with her dad, but if the extra involves conflict and arguing and pressure being put on her and me, it's better not to do that. Better to do just the set contact in the court order, which is very specific and doesn't require any negotiation, rather than additional contact which needs to be negotiated each time, as that nearly always leads to trouble. I think she understood this perspective - it showed that I hadn't forgotten her in the rush to score points over her father, but that I was actually thinking about her experience of contact.

Teabay · 02/03/2017 09:33

Hi my friends - some advice please!

Last night ExH said that as of next week he can no longer have DC on Fri night or Saturday daytime as he is going to be doing extra shifts at work. I was to bring the DC round at 5:30pm each Sat and he'd have them Sat Sun and take them to school on Monday.

Issues for me & DC - before Xmas we tried a similar teatime drop off and it was awful - DC were on edge all day waiting for the drop off, none of us could relax, our day was interrupted and we couldn't settle down, eg for a DVD with pjs and popcorn for example.
I tried to explain this to WN last night and he turned it to "you won't let me see them, I'll only have them Sun night, you're manipulative, people don't know the real you, I have to work extra hours cos you've gone to the CMS and I can't afford to pay you, etc etc".

This morning I'm feeling a bit battered - AIBU?
I think he should stick to Fri Sat Sun nights as in the agreement with the mediator (only started in January) and if he wants to /needs to work Saturdays then he'll need to find childcare for every other one when he has the girls. He doesn't even know how long the Saturdays will last for.

I'm torn - whilst I think he should stick to the routine the children request and prefer, it upsets me to think of them in childcare on a Saturday. But I don't want to be his free childcare either!!

Aagh!

ontheball75 · 02/03/2017 10:10

I totally understand the not wanting to be the free childcare teabay and the frustration of just getting a routine going and then having it changed again, It's a tough one.

Does he have family that would be able to look after the girls on a saturday?

Natsku · 02/03/2017 11:58

That is a tough one Teabay not sure what's best in that situation

DD's social worker just called - the hospital made a child protection report because of Ex refusing consent so that should help a lot in court. She also said that if court is going to take a long time to reach a decision then the other option is that child protection makes an order to take DD into care but placing her in my care, so she'd stay with me but the authorities would temporarily be her legal guardians and be able to give the consent needed for DD's treatment. I think I'll keep that as a last ditch option though as it seems very drastic. I'm hoping the court will issue an emergency decision within a couple of weeks at least.

nicenewdusters · 02/03/2017 20:01

Teabay I understand where you're coming from. My ex has the dc Friday night, back about 9.30 pm. He then has them every Sunday, from about 11 am, dropping them back in time for school Monday morning. Every other Saturday he also has them from about 5.30pm until the Monday morning, as this enables one of the dc to attend a sporting activity.

On the Saturday that he picks them up at 5.30 it does make the day a bit disjointed. We can only do certain things, go so far etc. I wouldn't say it's a problem, but it's not ideal.

I think your ex is wrong to be changing the agreement so soon. The CMS comment is rubbish. He's not paying you. He's not paying money because the nasty old government has told him to. He's supporting the dc he willingly brought into this world. I suspect you make a lot more alterations to your day to accommodate working and looking after your children. It's a red herring - but you already know that.

Personally I wouldn't go for the childcare option. I know what you mean, but I'd just accept it was more time with my dc at the weekend. I think my first response would be to say you should stick to what was agreed. If he insists on working those times then you'll have the dc instead. The only way I'd let him have Saturday night was if I could make it work for the dc (and me!). If you can drop them at his, perhaps you could agree that you'll have your Saturday as usual, and drop them to him when it suits you and the dc. You could agree that it would be no later than say 8pm, to give you a fuller day.

Natsku I know you're between a rock and a hard place, but that definitely sounds like a last ditch option. Can you imagine how your ex will play on the "taking into care" phrase ! He'll have a field day.

Biblio sounds like a really good way of dealing with your dc and the issue of contact.

PurpleThursday · 02/03/2017 20:08

Hi green & lilac 👋🏼 It actually popped up in my face book feed. I did a double take 😆

RedastheRose · 02/03/2017 22:13

Teabay it's not something I've faced so far but my instinct would be to say, you agreed this, you can't just change plans to suite you, it's your problem, just like it would be mine if it was on a day when I had them and CMS is him paying what is necessary for the support of his kids and nothing to do with you. If he paid enough without being forced it wouldn't have been necessary. In other words it's your bed you lie on it! Easier said than done I know but not sure how else you can approach it otherwise he will be constantly dicking around with the dates and times as it suites him. Give an inch and they take a mile and all that!

Natsku · 03/03/2017 11:56

Yeah he'd certainly have a field day with that!

plotisgone · 03/03/2017 18:26

Can I get a bit of advice, please. I'm pregnant with first child, still with my bf I would class as a narc. My friend has said that when the baby is born, due to me having 'domestic abuse victim' on my medical files and a support program that social services may have powers - e.g. They could take away the child if I don't leave him. Does anyone have any idea if that's accurate? He's never physically assaulted me (nor have I been scared he will), but it's down as emotional abuse. I'm very mixed up about what to do and reading this thread, while helpful, scares me tremendously.

nicenewdusters · 03/03/2017 22:32

Plotisgone I don't have any experience of your situation, but hopefully someone will come along soon who does. I'm assuming you're still in your relationship. Have things improved, and the emotional abuse that you reported, has that stopped? If not, are you contemplating ending the relationship?

nicenewdusters · 03/03/2017 22:43

Apologies Plot, I just realised you posted on the thread earlier. I see that you have tried to discuss things with him.

Re-reading your posts reminded me of that wise old MN advice, that being unhappy is reason enough to leave. Basically, if it's not working for you then you don't need to justify yourself - to anyone. You don't need to wait for the dial to reach 10 on the crap-o-meter. Even if he throws himself on the floor and cries, well, that's his problem. Perhaps he should have considered your feelings earlier and you might not be where you are now.

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