What kind of men use prostitutes?

[Snugglepalace]

Dh has an outside job which involves spending time on various roads within towns and villages.
A couple of weeks ago he was working on a street in our local town. An everyday street with semi detached homes.
After a day or so Dh and his work colleagues noticed one particular house had a lot of 'visitors'. All the visitors were well dressed men arriving in nice cars. It averaged around 4 men per hour!
At lunchtime a car pulled up (the driver had pizzas) and the door was opened,there was an older woman in the hallway and several younger looking women loitering in the hallway also.

Dh and workmates are convinced it was a brothel. Over the weeks that they were working there they would glare at the men going in and said some of them looked very embarrassed once they realised they had been noticed, one even parked in a nearby supermarket and tried to get in the back way.
I know these things go on but what got me was the thought that surely, several, if not most of these men must have (oblivious?!) partners etc.

FamousPJ you could just not have sex at all, thats the option many unattractive women take. You're pathetic.

Like I said keep telling yourself what you like. I can guarantee on this site you won't get anyone having an "a-ha, well that's ok" moment over your explanations.

Won't he? Well you've excluded me from your assumption. There's something ironic about so called feminists who are anti prostitution who then proceed to lump all women together as an homogeneous group and claim to be able to speak for them all.

As I alluded to earlier, what grown adults get up to in private and the financial arrangements they come to suit them both are none of my business, and certainly nothing to do with the state.

You already held that view presumably, and were not persuaded by this particular man's point of view?

"FamousPJ you could just not have sex at all, thats the option many unattractive women take. You're pathetic."
An unattractive woman should still be able to find sex, without problems, without paying for it. Would women accept a life of celibacy if every single man refused to have sex with them without payment? I don't think so.

There are women who don't have sex at all, but it's usually by choice... for example, declining sex and choosing to save themselves for the "right person" instead. That's OK, and that's their choice. I don't share those perspectives, however, and I have no problem with casual sex.

"Would women accept a life of celibacy if every single man refused to have sex with them without payment?"

Of course they do. Many many women do. And a lot of men. Some men though feel entitled to sex and will expect to be able to pay for it. Some small number of women too.

Sex isn’t an entitlement. Masturbation is.

A lot of the anti-prostitution arguments are demonstrably untrue:

‘The prostituted woman would never have sex with ‘ugly’ old men without the money.

Well that goes for most jobs, really. Not many women would stock shelves for no money or clean loos.

‘Sex for financial reasons is coercion and thus rape’

This is so wrong I’m so many ways (and so anti feminist). Anyone can have sex with whomever they like for whatever reason as long as that is their choice at the time. Reasons and regrets are irrelevant as long as there actually is consent.

‘Some women are trafficked so all prostitution should be banned’

Well many farm pickers are also trafficked, and paid below the minimum wage, but no one is suggesting banning paid carrot or potato picking, both back breaking and unpleasant jobs.

Which leaves you with the ‘yuk’ factor.

‘Would you want your daughter/mother/girlfriend doing it?’

This is kind of irrelevant as most have high aspirations for their beloved and no one is suggesting prostitution is a wonderful ambition.

Regulate, police, protect and encourage people away from it, but banning it seems ridiculous to me.

And as to what kind of men use them, all sorts and, I believe, an increasing amount of women use male prostitutes. I have not but know at least one who does. He is perfectly normal (and not ugly).

"Of course they do. Many many women do."
That's not actually true. Virtually any women could have sex with a male friend, or could easily find a man to have sex with online, but they're choosing not to because they prefer to wait for someone they like. That's not the same situation as what many men are in, in which literally every woman around them is completely closed off to any idea of sex.

There's a huge difference between choosing not to have sex because you haven't found someone you like, and not being in a position to choose whether or not to have sex.

But the whole idea that people can live normal lives, both physically and mentally, in a state of involuntary abstinence is ridiculous. Religious people expect gay men to simply abstain from sex, and there is clear evidence that gay men in that position suffer psychological harm. And then you have the example of Catholic priests who are told to abstain from all sex... and it simply doesn't work. There's nothing wrong with someone abstaining from sex if they want to, but trying to impose unnecessary restrictions on someone's sex life is never going to work.

"Some men though feel entitled to sex and will expect to be able to pay for it."
That's not what the word "entitled" means.

Prostitution isn't a job. People's willingness or not to do various jobs without pay is not relevant to prostitution.

I totally disagree that having sex for money is always a free choice and thus not problematic. And either way, the person paying can't possibly know.

Whether people are mistreated in their employment is also irrelevant. No one would agree that low paid workers should be paid less than minimum wage, and I think most people would agree that doing so should be illegal.

Prostitution isn't a job

Well it is in many W. European countries, and the women get a far better deal, with all the protections and benefits that most workers take for granted.

It's high time we learnt from some of these examples.

No they really don't get all the protections and benefits that workers get. Health and safety for starters. None of the precautions that workers who are exposed to bodily fluids normally have to take.

No they really don't get all the protections and benefits that workers get. Health and safety for starters.

A room with washing facilities, a panic button, a reception desk to pre screen clients, other women working at the same place, paid for health checks, agreed pre set rates of pay, tax paid so state pension benefits, workplace pensions in some countries.

They seem to be doing a hell of a lot better than women in this country turning tricks in the back of a car down a secluded side street for £25.

My job is categorically more dangerous than sex work.

"None of the precautions that workers who are exposed to bodily fluids normally have to take."
Workers use a barrier method to protect against bodily fluids (gloves). A condom is basically the same thing.

Also... the risk of disease with skin contact with infected semen is very low. For example, it's impossible to get HIV from skin contact with semen.

Just because it is ostensibly safer in a German mega brothel, doesn't make it ok.

And a condom is not at all the same level of protection as workers who deal with bodily fluids would have, and you're deluded if you try and convince yourself it is.

"And a condom is not at all the same level of protection as workers who deal with bodily fluids would have, and you're deluded if you try and convince yourself it is."
Saying otherwise doesn't make it the case.

People who deal with infected bodily fluids wear gloves. That's it. A condom, in principle, is basically the same thing as a glove.

And then you're ignoring the risks that people may face when dealing with body fluids, which sex workers don't have to deal with. For example, if there are needles involved, then needle stick injuries will happen. Workers at particular risk will be vaccinated against hepatitis A and hepatitis B... but guess what... those same vaccines are also available to sex workers for free.

As I said, you are deluding yourself if you think the risks are the same and a condom is sufficient protection. It is laughably pathetic that you don't understand this.

Your assertions that no women exists who cannot find any man to have sex with her and therefore only ugly men like you are in a position of forced celibacy is based on what exactly ?

"As I said, you are deluding yourself if you think the risks are the same and a condom is sufficient protection."
As I've already explained, asserting that doesn't make it the case. I would be far more comfortable having sex with strangers with a condom than working in a role which means I could receive needle stick injuries from people who are HIV+ or have hepatitis B. Strictly in terms of safety, I would far rather be in sex work than my current job, jobs I've done previously, and many other jobs I can think of.

It is not the case that people who work with bodily fluids just wear gloves. And they would just be handling them in well-controlled circumstances, not inserting them into their body. You can say it's not the case as much as you like but you are wrong.

"Your assertions that no women exists who cannot find any man to have sex with her and therefore only ugly men like you are in a position of forced celibacy is based on what exactly ?"

I'm not in a position of forced celibacy, because I can access sex workers. The "incel" crowd is something else.

Have you used a dating website, or have any of your friends used dating websites? They will tell you that they are constantly bombarded with messages from men looking for sex. This universally happens to all women, regardless of how attractive they are. This is the reason why so many women have to write on their profile "Please do not contact me for sex" on dating websites.

The reason why women couldn't have trouble finding sex is simply because men will shag anything. As ugly as I am, I would have absolutely no problem logging on to Grindr, and finding myself bombarded with messages for sex from gay men. It's just the way men are.

"It is not the case that people who work with bodily fluids just wear gloves."
Sorry, but have you ever worked in a lab or medical environment, or worked in any kind of related field?

The protection which is worn by a worker depends on risk. I've had dozens upon dozens of blood samples drawn by nurses in my life (people who have no idea what diseases I may or may not have), and they've only ever worn gloves. Additional protection such as a mask or goggles is unnecessary, because the risk of my blood splashing onto their face is so low that it virtually never happens.

So perhaps you could argue that goggles could be worn by sex workers so semen doesn't go in their eye... but that's so extremely uncommon if the sex worker knows what she's doing. As for a mask? Well that one would be useless. Diseases like HIV and hepatitis B are transmitted by contact with bodily fluids; they are not airborne diseases. You can't inhale HIV, obviously.

"And they would just be handling them in well-controlled circumstances,"
No... not always... did you see that on TV?

"not inserting them into their body."
Nor is a sex worker if condoms are used.

This is just absurd. Of course you're holding to the view that there's no risk to the woman who's body you're using, and that you could make the situation conform to reasonable health and safety requirements. If you were prepared to accept a risk to the women involved then you'd have to reassess your world view.

But it's a joke to compare a nurse taking blood in a hospital setting with having sex with a punter. It's a total nonsense.

As ugly as I am

Since you keep bringing up your 'ugliness' as an excuse for using prostitutes, can I ask: Just how ugly are you? I've known some pretty unattractive men who manage to find women to have sex with. Of course, usually these women will not be very conventionally attractive either, but beggers can't be choosers I guess. Unless you're John Merrick, and unless you demand to have sex only with attractive women, then I can't imagine your physical appearance is really so frightful as to scare away all potential partners. Sounds more of an excuse to me.

Also, have you taken efforts to allieviate your ugliness? Because it strikes me as a difference between the sexes here. An 'ugly' woman would make great efforts to make herself more attractive, perhaps even having surgery. An 'ugly' man, however, demands women make themselves available to him for purchase.

Or at least you do.

That's not the same situation as what many men are in, in which literally every woman around them is completely closed off to any idea of sex.

I simply do not believe that is the case for 'many' men. The vast majority of men manage to find partners at least some of the time. But the real point is that sex is not a human right. If you're so unattractive - for whatever reason - that not a single woman would come near you unless purchased, then that's your problem. You do not have a right to access women's bodies for a fee.

"This is just absurd. Of course you're holding to the view that there's no risk to the woman who's body you're using, and that you could make the situation conform to reasonable health and safety requirements."

I never said there wasn't risks, but the risk to yourself and other people (remember; occupational safety is not just about risks to yourself, but risks to other people too) isn't really different from other jobs. The only job that's really safe is if you're sitting at a desk in a warm office in front of a screen all day... but even that carries risks, for example, if the building you're working in has poor safety standards. Certainly, the job I work in is far more dangerous than having sex with strangers, and I've worked in jobs previously which are far more dangerous than sex work (again, talking about both risks to myself, and risks to other people). In terms of my health and safety, I've always been more concerned in the work place than whenever I've visited a sex worker... because I know which one is potentially more dangerous.

But anyway, be sure to never do any job which involves any physical or practical work; you wouldn't be cut out for it.

Also, have you thought about safety issues OUTSIDE of work? Binge drinking is common in the UK, a lot of people still smoke, and about 66% of adults are overweight! You are far more likely to come to harm from diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, and cancer! If you are concerned about people's health, I would focus more on those factors, rather than worrying about a sex worker picking up a STI. The only STI which is really serious is HIV, but that's extremely difficult to catch if condoms are used.

"But it's a joke to compare a nurse taking blood in a hospital setting with having sex with a punter. It's a total nonsense."

I didn't make that comparison. I was talking about personal protective equipment (PPE) being selected based on risk.