What kind of men use prostitutes?

[Snugglepalace]

Dh has an outside job which involves spending time on various roads within towns and villages.
A couple of weeks ago he was working on a street in our local town. An everyday street with semi detached homes.
After a day or so Dh and his work colleagues noticed one particular house had a lot of 'visitors'. All the visitors were well dressed men arriving in nice cars. It averaged around 4 men per hour!
At lunchtime a car pulled up (the driver had pizzas) and the door was opened,there was an older woman in the hallway and several younger looking women loitering in the hallway also.

Dh and workmates are convinced it was a brothel. Over the weeks that they were working there they would glare at the men going in and said some of them looked very embarrassed once they realised they had been noticed, one even parked in a nearby supermarket and tried to get in the back way.
I know these things go on but what got me was the thought that surely, several, if not most of these men must have (oblivious?!) partners etc.

Or "putting themselves through law school" with their earnings. Even though that is, as any fule no, what all the women who work in the sex industry are doing.

Indeed, Charles.

I find it quite alarming, the number of lawyers/barristers/judges out there who a mere ten years ago were grinding their fannies in punters' faces.

"charlestrenet

I find it quite alarming, the number of lawyers/barristers/judges out there who a mere ten years ago were grinding their fannies in punters' faces."

Yikes!

As any fule no.
Excellent expression.

I think the putting yourself through Uni does happen in places like Amsterdam. I've met and talked to some sex workers there and it seems to be more prevalent. You even see girls studying in the Windows of the red light district.

Although I doubt it makes any difference to the punters choice of course.

Not the Philippines but much experience in Pattaya sadly, where supply outreaches demand and desperation ensues.

But you also see a lot of men looking for the "girlfriend" experience there as it seems to be in places like East Africa, Turkey and Jamaica for women. And quite a few duped into believing that the girls are interested in their fascinating personalities and looks and will wait for them, and be faithful for money sent when the punters go home.

Just like the reams of stories in magazines about 70 year old women sending money to Tunisian and Jamaican 20 year olds believing they are in love with them.

It's sex tourism, maybe not as cold and clinical as some, but to me it's still an exchange of money for sexual services of people that only have the human body to offer as a way of gaining an income.

I think after all these arguments go round the fact that people will create a market for sex/romance tourism etc means that there will always be a supply and demand situation.

If the number of sex workers choosing from their own free will goes down in number, and women are educated to make other choices in their life, then the demand will probably be filled by transporting a higher number of illegally trafficked workers.

I really don't know how the problem will ever be alleviated, even with tough laws it never goes away.

So I think a lot of countries seem to just accept it will happen, look the other way, and deal with it in a way that protects the workers as much as possible- for example Germany and Switzerland. In Switzerland there are even garages for drive in sex to protect street workers and the opening of a BJ coffee shop in Geneva.

But then when it's legal and organised , it becomes more acceptable and the norm. And round and round it goes.

I have a huge brothel in my town next to the supermarket, very prominent. Car park always full. I found it quite shocking when I came here (i thought it was a night club, and googled it ), but to everyone else it's part of the landscape here.

I don't think anyone has an answer to alleviation, I certainly don't and I don't think it's something that will ever disappear.

I know this will probably be deleted but Cara, I'm really struggling to believe you even got any GCSE's. I cringe for you with every comment you write.

Lemon

I have faith that it could go away, with political and social will. Drink driving is less socially acceptable to my generation than to my parents, given public info campaigns and visible policing.

I think if punters were criminalised, as they should be, the same could happen.

Love the thread. lemon you've been pwned by offred. Women believing a 20 year old man loves them (when he's been telling them that) and sending them money to support them/moving them over here to live is not the same as prostitution and you know it. Hilarious that you've had to stretch your own argument so far when it's become apparent you are talking utter bollocks.

Devi I haven't heard pwned for years!!

Devi perhaps you ought to read the articles on Jamaican Sex tourism. It seems none of the women are there for romance. It's an exchange of money for sex. Whether hidden behind a facade of making a nice holiday romance or not. In fact in the majority of articles I read last the women were pretty clear about their intentions and how they saw the men, sadly.

We live in a society where if you're old but rich and famous, then it's ok to shag a 20 year old beauty. It's been pointed out on this thread. So that girl isn't entering a relationship for money then? But socially it's acceptable. And socially it's acceptable for a 70 year old woman to delude herself into thinking a 20 year old Tunisian is interested in her looks and personality, when in reality it was unlikely she would enter that scenario in the U.K.?

I'm hardly being owned by anyone. I haven't once said whether I agree or disagree with the concept, or given my true opinion on prostitution.

All I've done is call out on some of the blanket statements I've read, feelings without facts.

The only factual information has come from a few people with experience.

And you can criminalise it as much as you like, I fear it won't go away.

The parallel being pedophilia. Criminalised so ...it has completely stopped now, has it? And of course it should be a criminal offence I'm not arguing that before you put words on my mouth again, but has it reduced or gone underground? There is a new process developing in countries like Germany of trying to understand why people do it, to get to the heart of the problem.

There are plenty of countries criminalising from both sides. The Swedish model might fit to the concept of men being in the wrong for seeking paid sex, but prostitution hasn't been eradicated. They still take the risks, maybe not spontaneously, but they still find a way. It may have decreased slightly, but I'd be interested to see if "punters" are seeking sex out of the country, whether it's realistically declined or statistically reduced because people went underground.

Like I said, I don't have an answer for the eradication of paid sex. You can go round and round here calling out sex workers and Vilifying people with opinions.

The actual question was what kind of men? And the truth is a lot more than you think, a lot of married men, and a lot of fathers, sons and ordinary people. So surely the next question should be why?

Someone came on here to explain, why he did it. But rather than listen and take the chance to understand, he was driven off the post.

So it will go round and round regardless of laws and prosecution. And my fear is, if it's driven underground, it could make things a lot worse for the vulnerable women here or in other countries.

Lemon I fear the only acceptable view on MN is often (not always) porn and prostitution are bad, are the responsibility of men and any other view makes you an apologist. Attempts to explain the nuances and shades of grey are dismissed. However, calling someone names and pwning them is always original and amusing.

I think any idea of banning prostitution is doomed to failure " the oldest profession " is a cliché but it is still true. It seems the only equalisation we see is that women are becoming consumers and not just victims. I think sexual tourism has many parallels to prostitution and the points you make are interesting.

There are a number of women who are refusing to be victimised. This is where I think we will see, and are starting to see, changes in attitudes and improvements to conditions.

There will never be a shift in attitudes towards prostitution if it's accepted, celebrated or encouraged. Criminalising the men (or women) who buy sex would send the message that prostitution is not acceptable, and perhaps over time attitudes might begin to shift.

There are a number of women who are refusing to be victimised

Great! I bet the trafficked, abused, mentally ill, drug addicted, raped and beaten women haven't thought of that. I'll suggest it, next time I'm out on the streets.

Germany's experiment with legalisation, as with all other countries which have done it has failed to protect sex workers and has acted as a cover for an increase in sex trafficking....

The Nordic model is the one I support because it accurately reflects the cause, which is not any of the excuses for entitlement that men or sex workers give on behalf of men, but the entitlement.

The Nordic model criminalises those who feel entitled to purchase someone else's body.

And yes it is a difficult problem. Not least because the problem is not just the sex industry, it is the culture of masculinity.

Also I don't think paedophilia is a particularly natural or useful comparison. All nations, and I hope all people (with the exception of perpetrators) find the idea of gaining sexual pleasure from children reprehensible.

The same can't be said for sexual pleasure gained from coerced consent from adult women. In fact, people will line up to tell you that's okay. Case in point.

Paedophilia hasn't been driven underground Also I don't think paedophilia is a particularly natural or useful comparison. All nations, and I hope all people (with the exception of perpetrators) find the idea of gaining sexual pleasure from children reprehensible.

Paedophilia isn't illegal, the sexual abuse of children is. That's not because the law is trying to police morality, but because it's role is to protect the most vulnerable - in that case children. Of course, unfortunately, kids are probably always going to be abused, but they can seek justice and retribution through the law when it happens, and other children can be prevented from suffering abuse at the hands of the abuser.

I think the law should do the same with and workers, in whatever guise that is.

And anyway, paedophilia hasn't been driven underground because abusing kids is illegal, it's been driven underground because most paedophiles know they would be at best shunned by everyone they know and at worst, probably killed, if their interests became known.

Sex workers. Not and workers

Oh and I really don't think ShyLondoner was 'driven off the thread'. He kept saying he didn't feel entitled to sex, despite paying for it when he couldn't get it elsewhere, and a few of us pointed out that his words and indeed actions proved that he did feel that way.

I didn't see anyone be rude to him. There were no personal attacks. But then again, no one felt sorry for him, or told him what he was doing was perfectly fine, which I suspect he construed as an attack anyway.

There will never be a shift in attitudes towards prostitution if it's accepted, celebrated or encouraged.

This. 100%.

Shylondoner was a perfect example TBH.

The attitude of entitlement to sex from women generally leads to a feeling of victimhood if sex is not easily forthcoming or is unsatisfactory in some way to the man, which in turn leads to an entitlement to purchase sex from sex workers.

It is deeply ingrained in our socialisation of men and boys.

Yeah, I read and understood what ShyLondoner was saying. I didn't attack him or ignore what he was saying. I replied pointing out that his actions were in direct contradiction to his words. He could easily have come back and explained why he thought that was wrong.

Ditto me, re ShyL

Just like the reams of stories in magazines about 70 year old women sending money to Tunisian and Jamaican 20 year olds believing they are in love with them.

It's sex tourism, maybe not as cold and clinical as some, but to me it's still an exchange of money for sexual services of people that only have the human body to offer as a way of gaining an income.

No it isn't. It's giving money to someone they believe themselves to be in a relationship. Yes those women (and men who do that) are deluded. But actually my sympathy is with them for being deceived.
Honestly, I can't believe you genuinely think they are the same thing at all. What about a stay at home wife? Is she a prostitute because she has sex with a man who gives her money? Obviously not. You are massively stretching.

All nations, and I hope all people (with the exception of perpetrators) find the idea of gaining sexual pleasure from children reprehensible.

Not all nations think pedophilia is wrong based on our standards. It's estimated that the number of child brides will reach 1.2 billion by 2050 for example. And there are 4 million known websites in business for child porn. It's not disappearing.

So another sweeping statement, that could go off thread.

And as I said, it's a parallel about something criminalised and driven underground without getting to the crux of why people do certain acts. So in Germany they have developed Project Dunkelfeld to try and understand why people act in a certain way. As an aside, It will be interesting to see how it progresses.

Shylondoner wasn't abused but rather than try and understand his viewpoint it was just dismissed and he was encouraged to tell the world what he was doing, if it was ok. If he's shot down at every answer then what would be the point of him even trying to explain.

Refusing to talk openly or accusing people of glorifying or normalising will never give enough understanding, no problem has ever been solved by ignorance.

It's happening, it's been happening for hundreds of years, and it won't go away until people actively listen to the viewpoints on both sides to make a case. Otherwise it's the chicken and egg theory over and over again. Rather than understand and educate.

In Jamaica trans women prostitution is under ground they are at more risk of violence and murder. If prostitution was illegal in this country and men and women were prosecuted there would be a change on the streets. People's attitudes will change and their will be no red light district. My fear is it would go underground and then there's no protection for these women.

Devi

What about a stay at home wife? Is she a prostitute because she has sex with a man who gives her money? Obviously not. You are massively stretching.

Who's over stretching now? That's a very extreme offensive comparison. And a complete non comparison.

Like I said read some articles about sex tourism in Jamaica and the opinions women have given on the men there that they are using.

It's an exchange of sex for money. Deluded or not, romanticised or not. But it's ok because the woman really believed the 20 year old wanted her for her right? And it's different because they are women.

But carry on jumping on the backs of other people's threads, or mine without giving one factual, non hysteria driven answer for whatever it is you want to win or pwn. I couldn't give a shit. You haven't given one solution to the problem.

Not one person here has the solution. All those put forward that are already in use around the world aren't working 100%. Victimising and vilifying just will not give a solution to this. Only understanding on both sides will. However uncomfortable it makes you feel.