How on earth can I keep us all safe?

[cherrycrumblecustard]

I was going to make this post about "my friend" but honestly, I think I just need to be open about me.

How do you cope? When you live with someone who

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

I need out, but I am TERRIFIED of leaving my children, our children, with him

Cherry - you have mentioned that the money is his money. Do you have your own bank account and income or is all money controlled by him.

Cherry, I agree that at least one of your mum friends would want to help.

My friend I mentioned earlier came to me for help. She eventually asked him to leave, he's wormed his way back in. I can't bear to go to her house anymore. It makes me feel sick to think of what's happening behind the front door. I want to help her so much, so do others, but we can't physically drag her from the house.

People will care. They know how hard it is to leave. Look at all the different organisations set up specifically to help people in your situation. If it was easy - kick him out, change the locks - they wouldn't need to exist. But they do, because they/we all know that life can be messy and complicated. You will be believed, and helped. But first of all you have to believe that:

this is abuse
it's not your fault
you are not a bad person
he is responsible for his own actions
you don't need permission to leave

If you don't believe any of the above, please be assured that we do, so you can too.

Can you start documenting the abuse by sending an email to a trusted friend describing each incident when it happens? Obviously you'd need to be 100 per cent sure that you deleted browsing history each time.

EmmanuelleMumsnet (such a beautiful name!) thank you so much. I do really appreciate those links I'll have a proper look now.

Please, please, PLEASE though, don't worry about me anyone. I am in no danger at all. I've been with this man eighteen years and I'm not really scared of him. I'm definitely not worth anyone's worry, although I am touched by it.

Friendship wise, I don't know, before I gave said I'm going to leave and have done so but then gravitated back and people probably don't believe me now.

Oh Cherry you sound so beaten down, so subdued, so abused & gaslighted. It is so hard to read - the only way you can be living this is by shutting down something precious & vital that makes you you.

When you write this:

He would say I wanted it.
He'd ask me to name a particular occasion when it happened. Then he'd justify it. That doesn't sound like much but honestly, he can, he has in the past done awful things then had ME crying and begging for forgiveness hmm because he's somehow managed to twist it around so that I'm the one in the wrong!
He would scoff and say 'I don't hit you!'

Can I ask you to reverse what you describe here? Can you imagine what it would be like if you behaved as your husband does?

What if in the "playfighting" you do, you hit him rather harder than was strictly necessary? What if you had done awful things but had him begging for forgiveness?

You see, I doubt you would do any of this, because at bottom you are a nice, reasonable, kind person, who cares for others. You might start to see how far from normal or reasonable your husband is.

Does he treat his work colleagues as he treats you? Does he speak to them with "anger tightly reined in"? Does he chastise them for normal human errors. as he does you? Does he require them to do things against their will? Does he force them to cheat or commit fraud or embezzle ?

I'm definitely not worth anyone's worry

You are, you are you are! You are human - you are worth the world.

I definitely don't want people being upset or worried FOR me though, if you see what I mean. Because I'm in no danger.

The problem is, I can't imagine staying married to him but I can't imagine not being married to him either. It leaves me in a weird sort of limbo.

I know it just sound bizarre but in many ways I'm stronger than I was, more able to see exactly what he's doing. I call him on stuff. He said I looked awful in a pair of trousers I bought a few weeks back. I looked right at him and said 'feeling threatened?'

He's out tonight. For the naysayers I tried Women's Aid again and just can't get through.

You're scared because it's the unknown. You can't imagine him not in your life because he hasn't ever not been, not whilst you've been an adult anyway. It seems daunting. But it's not unreachable. Just gotta break it down into little steps

My ex husband never hurt me, he trashed our bedroom , pinned me against the wall without touching me and mentally abused me. I told myself it was my fault. I was sitting with our daughter on my knee, when he asked me if I'd cleaned the cooker not liking the reply he threw his red hot cup of tea over the both of us. Thank God that by the time it reached us it had cooled. I rent my cousin who came to get me, if she hadn't I don't know how long it would have taken me to leave. And the next time the cup of tea could have been scalding hot. You need to leave now. You know what he is like, it's not just you it's your kids. He's either going to turn on them or use them against you. What happens if you end up in hospital and he's on his own with the kids. Please please go.

If you can't get thru on the phone I think you can email women's aid, I'm sure Iv seen someone say that before. Maybe email them a link to the thread if it's hard to get it out.

Unfortunately it can be difficult to get through to Women's Aid these days. You could try googling to see if your local area has a DV helpline which is much the same thing. You do not have to give your name and they won't identify you or make you take any action, even if they are based in your local police force.

Please be careful with calling him on stuff. It's often when women start to notice the abuse and shift towards leaving that the abuser senses they are losing control and ramps up the abuse in response. Much better to play dumb, keep your head down, absolutely watch and observe his behaviour, (Personally I found this the most illuminating thing) but don't challenge it or call attention to it. That might feel good in the moment but if it ultimately alerts him to the fact that something has changed it could be dangerous.

I'm not worried for you in the sense that it's taking me away from my family or occupying a huge chunk of my brain, I have been here long enough to have learned how to create emotional distance, but your situation is indeed one to be worried or concerned about, and please don't feel bad that people are concerned about you. It's okay and anybody who is still here when a thread is almost 500 posts long tends to be giving up time that they can spare. And we absolutely think you are worth it and we want you to think that, too!

Seconding the above post. It was when I started to push back that my abuse escalated quickly. Be safe. DV organisations can help you have a safety plan for staying safe within the relationship if you are not yet ready to leave. Now that you are aware of the abuse it may be that you are able to store you important documents outside of the home for if you make a snap decision to leave. I left on the spur of the moment and had to leave behind passports and birth certificates etc which made things pretty difficult at first till I managed to retrieve them when I went back to liberate the children's hamster (ridiculous I know, but the hamster was important to me and the DC)

Meant to say, there's a local DV organisation where I live that will store documents in their safe for women who aren't ready or able to leave yet.

It's not ridiculous :)

Honestly though I'm not in danger. I'm in more danger from prince William.

Cherry I believe you.

So much of what you have written reminds me of my own experiences, which took place many years ago yet are still fresh in my memory.

Wise women have given you great advice on this thread. I would like to add the following:

Although they may not be able to voice their feelings right now, your children are likely to be aware that what is happening between their parents in their home doesn't feel right.

I left my EA (and physically intimidating) ex more than a decade ago, when my DC were tiny. Only in the last couple of years have my DC felt able to express how they feel about their father. One of them has recently told me quite shocking things about their early childhood that I was unaware of (partly because I worked out of the home and my ex was a SAH dad).
My DC no longer see their father (their choice entirely).

I'd feel a total fraud showing up on the doorstep of somewhere for poor, poor women who really have nothing and me with my pampered little middle class life.
I understand this feeling so well. We looked as if we had a charmed life, but I was dying inside. I lost weight (I was too nervous to eat); my self-confidence plummeted (he told me I was useless); I doubted my ability to mother my DC properly; I became isolated from my friends and family (he constantly slagged them off until I questioned my own judgement).

By the time I left, I was a shadow of my former self, but what kept me going was the certain knowledge that if I didn't leave it would only get worse.

I genuinely feel like no one would believe me, outside of this thread.
That's what I thought. But as soon as I dared to confide in the people I'd become estranged from (because he didn't like them), every single one of them was incredibly supportive. I was so ashamed but they helped me leave (from another country) and have continued to support me. Even after all this time, I still need their help.

Like you, I struggled to accept that his behaviour was abusive; I still do. One thing that has helped me massively is writing down everything that happened. I gave it to a friend to read and they couldn't believe the person they were reading about was me. Could you try that? (If you do, make sure you cover your tracks.)

I understand what you're going through. Please gather your strength, be careful and have faith in yourself. You are a strong woman and you can protect your children. When you feel ready, I hope you will leave him. Your life will be better without him.

I've never told anyone this but my dad was controlling. If he was in a good mood everything was hunky dory; if not we all trod on eggshells around him.

I don't remember much of my childhood but I often remember hearing my mum say, "don't tell your dad" or, "shhhh, your dad'll hear" etc. I was probably 8 yo when I realised they weren't happy and that our house and my dad wasn't like my friends'.

Mostly the disagreements were saved until we were in bed and couldn't hear them, although we learnt to tell when someone had upset him and we tried really hard not to as it would be our mum that would be in trouble. We knew she'd pay later. It was mostly name calling, threatening and belittling her.

It worked unless he was very angry and raised his voice or threw crockery. Once I realised what was happening (my mum just took it all and never defended herself) I would secretly stay awake and listen to the arguments so I could protect my mum if necessary. If I asked her about it she'd make up every excuse in the book: "he's just tired, he doesn't mean it", "it's my fault, I forgot/I shouldn't have....", "It's his money I shouldn't have....", and so on. I notice that I follow this pattern in my relationships.

As I grew older and more aware, I started to resent her for not standing up to him. I was the mouthy one and he did turn it onto the children, well, me anyway. I was silly enough to argue with him or stick up for my mum. He actually punched me in the nose once and made it bleed because I refused to admit he was right (he wasn't). He chased me around the house with a bat, he called me names and I was regularly hit because I wasn't the meek dd that he expected.

The worst thing that happened though was I woke earlier than expected one night and crept to the toilet (you learnt to avoid creaky steps/floor boards and to move silently so as not to disturb him).
I could hear these noises coming from their bedroom and realised he was forcing himself on her even though she didn't want it.
I could hear her pleading and saying no and him saying, "just shut up". "You're my wife and you'll do what I want. If you didn't make such a fuss it would be done quicker. If I want to have sex I will". He also called her names and said it was her own fault and she should try to enjoy it more as it wasn't fair on him. I was 12 yo.

It has really affected my relationships throughout my life. I don't trust men. I don't really have friends either (we weren't allowed people over as it annoyed him). I don't really enjoy sex either and I struggle with self esteem. I don't think I deserve anything/anyone nice or good.

I hope my experience helps you. I loved my dad, especially when I was too young to understand what was going on. He could be kind and fun but it didn't last. He wasn't a nice person and he was often horrible to my mum. A few times when I was older I saw bruises on her arms or around her neck (when her scarf or whatever slipped); and again she always minimised and made excuses. I still often worry that some of those bruises were my fault. That maybe I was too cheeky and my mum paid the price.

It's not a nice way to live. I always wished she'd be brave enough to leave. I hope you are

I've never told anyone because I'm ashamed and I feel like it's my fault: if I'd been better, prettier, slimmer, smarter maybe he'd have been happier and less angry (if he could've been proud of me). Maybe my mum would've had a happier life if I'd always been good and didn't answer back.

theyAlwaysKnow you're amazingly brave to post, I'm so sad to see that you're ashamed. You must have been a strong, smart child to stand up to your dad. I'm sure your mum was proud of you. Nothing you did or could have done would have changed your mum's life - you were just a little girl.

Don't feel guilty or ashamed, you didn't have any of the power in that situation. But you survived, you have insight, and your post is noticeable for not sounding bitter. I wish things could have been different for you and your mum.

I have to agree, that was a pretty remarkable post, quite humbling. If my DD grows to be mouthy and fiesty and knowing her own mind I will be thrilled.

In some ways I'm not this meek and compliant thing; I really CAN handle him and if there was a degree on it I'd have a first. Nine times out of ten I end up getting exactly what I wanted in the first place. He broke my phone last summer (not on purpose) and asked him if we could get it fixed. No, you need to learn not to be so careless with it, I've told you before. I knew it was completely pointless saying 'well actually dear YOU broke it' as if I had it would have gone straight to, well let's talk about the thousand times you broke something of mine and I didn't say a word about it - as it was we went shopping and I said 'can I just ask how much it would be to get my phone fixed?' And he said OK, so I asked at the desk and they told me and I just looked at him sadly knowing full well he'd sigh and say 'oh, all right!' And he did.

Maybe with DH it's as simple as he needs to be needed. I desperately needed him in all sorts of ways when we first met. I needed him emotionally. I was scared to be alone in the house so he'd either stay there and he wouldn't sleep with me, not till well after my sixteenth birthday, he'd just be there and say 'go to sleep, it's fine, I'm downstairs.' I also obviously needed him in practical ways: when I started staying at his I needed lifts and I don't know, I always had to ask for stuff. Like - and I was only about 17 at this point - I'd say to him 'Carla is having a party tonight,' and he'd look amused and say 'that's great, I hope you've booked a taxi then!' And he wouldn't "mean it" so I'd start laughing and say 'oh I really want to go' and again that amused look but also slight annoyance and he'd say 'yes and I really didn't want to wake up to a load of unwashed dishes but that's life - we don't always get what we want, do we!' Like I said before it wouldn't be totally serious but it wouldn't be totally as a joke either.

If I get angry or upset he just completely humiliates me - metaphorically wipes the floor with me - but if I play him a certain way I get what I want while he thinks he's got what he wants. And it always seemed to work, but maybe it's not what a marriage should be especially with children.

When a woman's in an abusive relationship she does learn to cope, she learns to manage him and his moods, she knows how to "play" it to get what she wants or to lessen the blow.

I've been out for coming 3 years, I still know him like the back of my hand, I used to be able to preempt every situation, I had tricks up my sleeve to enable me to do some stuff without suffering too bad consequences. I used to manipulate him in a way to make him think something was his idea - because if it were my idea, I'd never be allowed to do it, but if it's his idea, he'll allow it. But it's a survival tactic...it's not normal and it's not how a relationship or a marriage should be.

The example you've given above is a classic indicator of coercive control...they never really say you can't do it...but you don't anyway because they wouldn't like it, or there'd be repercussions. Making you feel as though as you have to "earn" certain 'privileges' like going to a party. But even if you had the house spotless, he'd move the goalposts and there'd be a different reason why you couldn't go?

No person should ever have control over another...they should never humiliate, rape, or hurt you, or control what you do or where you go or who you see.

The story you told about the phone shows he's in control and that be doesn't care about you. You think you played him, but you had to almost beg to get something off him that he had damaged. I bet he loved every minute.

In a normal marriage, he'd apologise and you'd just go to the shop and buy it with the joint money or he'd bring you a new one home.

A few months back a friend commented that she felt awful, because she was earning less, that she had to check with her husband if she could have a new dress. They have separate accounts. He simply said yes, though. But she hated being in that situation.

You're not a child anymore. You should have just as much say on what to buy as him.

Or what to do.
In a normal marriage one will check with the other, but to see if there are no clashes. And both will.

How much do you have to degraded yourself to stay safe? How much do you bite your tongue?
Do you feel safe saying anything and doing anything?

I don't feel in danger. I agree he will have loved every minute, though. I could 'see' it, even, his face was normal but there was this smug glow about him.

Its weird, it doesn't ever feel like I'm degrading myself. I just feel like it's normal.

Does it make you happy though?

I actually woke up this morning thinking about you OP and I guess it's because of the holidays coming up and worrying that you'll probably be spending a lot of time with him around. Please stay safe, but take this time to reflect on everything you've been telling us with all the replies and take some control of your life. You can do it

I don't know. There's a lot of stuff that should bother me and upset me but it doesn't.

Because you're numb.

I think it will take something huge to happen for you to act. I hope it won't be something violent but it could be a change of circumstances or another person in your lives, who knows..?this would be a shame because then you'd think how much time you wasted waiting for courage