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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

How on earth can I keep us all safe?

994 replies

cherrycrumblecustard · 14/12/2016 16:00

I was going to make this post about "my friend" but honestly, I think I just need to be open about me.

How do you cope? When you live with someone who

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

I need out, but I am TERRIFIED of leaving my children, our children, with him

OP posts:
cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 11:11

I don't think he'd be bothered by that, Lweji I really don't ... Our son is old enough, in any case. And, maybe I've not explained well, but he doesn't lose it, ever really. He's always fully in control. Even if he gets angry it's anger that is reigned in. I know I'm not explaining it well. But if I come in and he's not happy about something he will shout my name and I know he's angry, but it's like performed anger.

OP posts:
loveyoutothemoon · 17/12/2016 11:27

Why have you posted?

What do you want to happen?

RestlessTraveller · 17/12/2016 11:30

Cherry did you read my last post where I offered to send you some resources?

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 11:30

All I saw from your last post was you didn't believe me.

OP posts:
DeepanKrispanEven · 17/12/2016 11:30

I really wouldn't be so sure that the children feel happy and safe. Children have ears and hear more than you think, and are very sensitive indeed to tone of voice and atmosphere.

RestlessTraveller · 17/12/2016 11:35

Cherry that's complete rubbish. I have never said I don't believe you. I'm going to send you the stuff anyway use or don't I give up. No doubt you'all take that as I don't believe you too.

nicenewdusters · 17/12/2016 11:35

Hi OP. I hope you're ok today. I just wanted to say that Lweji's posts are some of the wisest I have ever read on MN. She totally gets where you are, and wants to use her experience to help you. I trusted something I read on MN many years ago. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Being trapped in the fog is so scary. Sometimes you just need to trust the people who can help you find your way out. Think what Lweji's motivation is to help you - nothing but kindness towards a fellow human being. We all put our trust in the wrong people sometimes. You did it as a lonely, vulnerable 16 year old. You can do it again, as a mother and a woman in your own right.

Try and turn off his voice in your head. You have your own voice, it's the only one you need.

iMatter · 17/12/2016 11:37

Cherry - you have reached out for help so you must realise things are bad and, I suspect, you also know it will get worse for you and your children.

Staying and keeping you all safe isn't an option. Do you see that?

I suppose the answer to your question "how can I keep us safe while I choose to stay with him" is to keep your head down, don't annoy him, don't resist when he rapes you and ensure that the children don't misbehave, annoy or challenge him.

Do you see how wrong that is? How damaging that is?

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 11:38

I agree I will never be able to explain properly but Lweji is why I'm still here.

No pressure there then!

Restless maybe the children aren't safe with me either, you just don't know, you think you do because I've put a few situations on here and you think there are children cowering behind bookcases. It's not true, it's not what happens.

OP posts:
loveyoutothemoon · 17/12/2016 11:40

Agree with iMatter.

BertieBotts · 17/12/2016 11:59

OP

You posted earlier something like "Everyone is saying that you need a perfect marriage or the DC will never be happy"

That's not quite true - what is actually happening is that when you're in an abusive relationship and particularly when you have been in that relationship for a long time and it is really the only adult experience you've ever had of relationships, you effectively normalise abuse to the point that a normal, healthy, but of course imperfect marriage seems absolutely unbelievable. Your normality gets shifted so that when people talk about little things which bother them about their partner or normal human flaws, you insert abusive behaviours into those categories. You see incidents of abuse as "one off mistakes" or "nobody is perfect" and perfectly equal to your own flaws which are probably much more minor than you really think (we usually judge ourselves harshly, and experiencing any kind of abuse corroborates this view and strengthens it).

Likewise, you see the normal state of your relationship, which isn't as bad as the abusive incidents but is usually still not supportive or nurturing, often places more responsibility on you for things like household chores, childcare, sex, grocery shopping, etc. Is often sprinkled with small put-downs or jokes at your expense, often feels heavy - but you assume that is life with small children or just life in general.

And then you see the nice times, when he happens to be in a good mood or when everyone's playing the roles that he approves of or after an incident of abuse when he feels remorseful or like he needs to make it up to you, and you take this as the highlight and feel grateful for it. It reminds you that he has a heart and you remember everything that you loved about him.

But none of this is normal or healthy. Even the good times usually have conditions attached or can be snatched away on a whim.

A healthy relationship looks more like this:

In the bad times you support each other and don't blame each other. They have annoying habits but these are absolutely things you can live with. You don't dread it. It's something stupid like he likes to sing tunelessly along to some annoying pop song or he forgets to put petrol in the car, that kind of thing. People might get really angry and shout a bit in extreme circumstances but they do not call each other names directly and it is always short lived and generally they understand that their own anger is their problem and try to avoid this, they don't make it your problem.

In the normal times there is a general sense of support and nurture, love and acceptance. You're interested in each other and speak respectfully to each other. When jokes are made it's because both of you find it funny (or at the worst, one of you finds it mildly irritating). You feel connected, you feel of equal worth and value. It's not hearts and flowers all the time, it's just life, but with someone who's got your back, like a best friend.

There are no extra good times because nice/good is normal. When there are great times it's normally relating to external circumstance ie everything is going well and you're celebrating together.

That is normal - the reason that it sounds unrealistically perfect is because you have normalised abuse. But it is actually not a lot to expect, just basic respect.

BertieBotts · 17/12/2016 11:59

Lweji is great. She really knows her stuff. Flowers

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 12:05

Lweji is great :) so are a lot of you. If I ever sound like I'm arguing, I'm not. It's just this is a huge, huge thing for me. I have to know if I'm going to leave that that is it, no going back. And that's terrifying.

I don't know much about my parents' marriage. They married young. I remember my dad saying they'd probably have got divorced if they got married 'now' - in the mid 90s, I've explained that badly, I mean, he was saying if they were twenty years younger and got married in the late 80s rather than the late 60s then he didn't think the marriage would have lasted. But they never really argued that I can remember when I knew them. They had me after they'd been married going on twenty years. They did really love each other. I don't think they wanted children. Well, they did. But not as we were.

OP posts:
Lweji · 17/12/2016 12:16
Blush

It sounds more like you're having an internal debate. Like most women in your situation have had and will have.

It's not an easy debate. Sad

We are putting forward the arguments for leaving and you're giving us the arguments for staying.
It's not that bad should never be an argument to stay.

It's often asked here: if it was your daughter (or son) in the same situation, what would you advise? Or your friend (as asked earlier)?

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 12:21

I suppose but then my daughter wouldn't be on her own, she'd have me, I don't have anybody.

OP posts:
DeepanKrispanEven · 17/12/2016 12:28

But if you weren't around to help her - say if she were abroad, or you were too ill to help - would you want this for your daughter?

Lweji · 17/12/2016 12:32

I know it's extra hard, but it's doable. And you'll be amazed at the help you'll get when you decide to leave.
People you never realised may well go to you and tell you about their own stories and support you like you never thought possible.

In fact, breaking the wall of secrecy was very liberating to me.

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 12:32

I'd come home for her, even if I was ill i could help a bit. Her life won't be like mine.

OP posts:
GinIsIn · 17/12/2016 12:37

cherry I am so sorry for your situation, but by staying you are teaching your DD that this is what relationships are. You can't say her life won't be like yours if that is the life she knows. I know it's a big step and one to take when you are ready but it's for your DCs as well as you and that's what should drive you forward.

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 12:52

I want to leave. It's just I don't have anywhere to go.

OP posts:
IhatchedaSnorlax · 17/12/2016 13:00

Where in the country are you Op? There will be a way for you to leave, we just need to figure out how.

You are not alone.

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 13:01

Pm you x

OP posts:
BToperator · 17/12/2016 13:10

You said a while back, "I feel like seeing the GP might start things rolling I'm not happy with." which tells me deep down you do know how bad things are. You and your DC deserve so much better. I really hope you can find the strength to get out some time soon!

LuluLovesFruitcakes · 17/12/2016 13:15

Have just sat and read the full thread..

Cherry - it sounds like you know that this is abuse and that his actions are not justifiable at all (no matter what he may say). But, as Lweji said, you're having an internal battle - which is perfectly normal. Nearly every woman in an abusive relationship has this battle...you've been conditioned for so long to instantly think of him first - so much so that you don't even think you do it, but when you read something you hear his voice. You know what he thinks before you know what you think.
And it's hard to do battle with that, with his voice.
It's terrifying to think to do anything that you know he wouldn't like, isn't it.
As has been pointed out, the 'playfighting' is physical abuse - playfighting should not involve injury, and he wouldn't stop if you protested that it hurt, would he?
He doesn't stop when you protest to sex. That is rape. People have said you could have him charged - this is true. Sexual messages 10 years ago are just that, sexual messages from 10 years ago. They are not a "free-pass" to do whatever he pleases - so if you ever did decide you wanted to prosecute, do not let that be the thing that stands in your way. Because it's not relevant to his treatment of you now.

Also, it's true that the children will know. I know the majority happens after dark once the kids are in bed as you've said - but I can promise you, they will know. They pick up on our emotions and feelings, on atmosphere, can you honestly say that there's no chance they've ever woken in the night to hear something going on? I won't railroad you as others have done. Not at all. I completely understand how hard this is right now. And how many things are running through your head about all of this.

The National Domestic Violence Helpline (run in conjunction with Refuge and Women's Aid) have a voicemail service, where if you can't get through when you call, you can leave your name, number and a safe window to call you back on. 0808 2000 247. Please try them again Cherry.

I will always recommend a woman and her children leave an abusive relationship - but it's not something you can just do on the say so of people on the internet. Often it takes time. You need to be ready, both physically and emotionally. And when that time comes that you are ready, there will be people there to help you. A refuge will probably be your best and safest option to leave. But there will be support for that, and then there will be help for you.

I'm really concerned about the backtracking in the middle of this thread...

But I'm going to advise regardless. There are things you can do to keep yourself as safe as possible whilst still living with him;

  • Be sure to always delete your browser history, and never store passwords on any device that he may be able to gain access to, and always log out of sites like this one.
  • Pack a grab bag in case you need to escape the house in a hurry, and hide it somewhere safe. Put in birth certificates for you and the children, ID, Passports for you and the children, any benefits paperwork if you have any. A few essential clothes etc for you and the kids. Money. Insurance documents including national insurance number.
  • Think about how you would escape the house in an emergency.
  • Plan where you would go, how would you get there. Try to think of routes that avoid main roads if you're on foot and he has a car.
  • If you suspect he may be become violent, try to move to a low-risk part of the house. Avoid kitchen, bathroom, garage, or places where you may become trapped in a small space like walk-in cupboards etc.

Are there any neighbours you could trust enough to ask that they ring 999 if they hear sounds of a struggle?

Think about what options are open to you - refuge, injunctions, police involvement etc.

There's alot more information here - www.womensaid.org.uk/the-survivors-handbook/making-a-safety-plan/#1447926965295-8f67f8a6-62c7 and don't be afraid to post here and ask for help.

This is an awfully long post and I do apologise for that, so I will leave it here. I just wanted to add, that your silence doesn't protect you. It only protects him. I know you're worried about 'ruining his life', but that is honestly not your burden to bear. He is the one behaving in this way towards you. Any repercussions for HIS actions are HIS alone.

Sending a big hug...Flowers Be kind to yourself Cherry. x

cherrycrumblecustard · 17/12/2016 13:36

I really really appreciate the long post. Thank you. I don't feel anyone is in danger, I'm not scared of him, but - I don't know. Things can't continue.

OP posts:
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