How on earth can I keep us all safe?

[cherrycrumblecustard]

I was going to make this post about "my friend" but honestly, I think I just need to be open about me.

How do you cope? When you live with someone who

will hit (not hard and not enough to bruise but will hityou and also shove, thump things near you and so on)
won't take no for an answer for sex, pulls your pants down as you pull them up, insists, ejaculates when you don't want them to and have asked/begged/pleaded not to
controls EVERYTHING

I need out, but I am TERRIFIED of leaving my children, our children, with him

OP, I am very concerned for your children. In these cases, and on this thread, people have been told not to badger, or harang the parent who is also suffering. But that then means that NO ONE is speaking for the children. They do not get to have voices. And that is not acceptable. Two of my cousins have fallen off the family radar due to abuse in their home, and I am not at liberty to tell you here what they witnessed/endured and what the after affects for them were, but it was not pretty. That probably could have been largely prevented by the family who did know doing more to help, instead of pacifying the parent/s. I don't know!

Right now, your children do not have voices. But they know op, they know something is not right, and that makes them scared.

I am not colluding in their abuse. I would not do that. Oh but you ARE, op. Living in a house where domestic violence regularly takes place (and yes, rape is domestic violence, as is control and hitting/slapping you) is now considered child abuse.

You may not want to hear it, or believe it, but it is. And them "not seeing it" doesn't mean they don't know it happens, and it does not mean it isn't abusive towards them. And yes, you could lose them if you keep exposing them to environment. Consider what would happen if one of them discloses to someone at their school? I do understand why you need to think you have a happy little family situation, with some little "devil" paying a visit now and then, but you really don't!

it's one bad thing My "one bad thing" about my dh is that he snores. Yours IS your husband. The "good things" are only there because he is using the cycle of abuse (picture) to keep you under his control.

Would it really count as domestic violence, though? You are now insisting that he doesn't hit you, it does sound like you are minimising now, but regardless...even if he doesn't hit you, he rapes you. THAT is violence op, as is controlling you to the extent he does. It is all domestic violence and the children should not be living among it.

Parker honestly, their home life is normal. The stuff I've posted about, is after dark. They don't see it. Some of the stuff even predates them being born. No op, their home life is FAR from normal. Please stop thinking it is. Because that is stopping you from seeing this from their point of view. Living with violence is FAR more damaging than living with a single parent.

Sorry to be harsh, but sometimes it's needed.

I agree different I am also very concerned for ops children, but that issue seems to have been bypassed. They are victims too. I hope the op will find strength to leave this abuser.

He's spent the whole of your adult life shaping you - you know no different but the fact that you've posted means that it's becoming intolerable and that you're beginning to see it's wrong - this is good

It's been a long time living like this so change will be a long and slow journey - he won't change and it seems like his behaviour is escalating, either in frequency or content - but everything is a small step in the right direction

You are yoyo-ing with your thoughts and feelings as you wrestle to understand what you're going through

It would be good to copy and paste your posts on to one document and read them back as you get stronger. Imagine reading them as if they'd been written by someone else - you might begin to see this is not a way of life

He's shaped your life so far, now it's time for you to start shaping your future - one tiny little step at a time

Cherry the style of your posts reminds me of another poster who was surreptitiously abused by her supposedly loving perfect husband. Forced to have a 3rd child she didn't really want, cut off from her family, made to feel increasingly unsafe in her own home, but yet all the time saying he was a good man really. Does anyone remember GettingBig/GettingStrong's posts?

She too exprssed herself in short posts doubting herself, as if channelling her husband's gaslighting of her. Her posts also sounded as if her abusive husband was in her head. THey were both "professionals" - nice middle-class if I recall correctly.

She got free, slowly step by step. It was only after she got free that she realised how disturbed her children had been & how abnormal their behaviour was.

That's why I told you a bit about my nice middle class upbringing - it wasn't an abusive home, but it was a home where my parents were deeply unhappy with themselves & each other. It leaves scars - I have memories of the unease between my parents from the age of around 20 months (my sister was about 4 or 5 months old I remember her as a baby in arms during an argument).

Step by step ...

You said in your 1st post that I was going to make this post about "my friend" Re-raead your posts as if they were a good friend of yours, or your daughter.

I was on those threads. It took about 3 threads for her to get out. She went to a refuge. It was hard, but she did it.

It takes time and determination. So, don't give up.

Think: why did you decide two days ago that you were going to leave? Keep that in mind when life gets back to normal and you feel like you're being unreasonable. Go back to that point when you decided for leave. What happened then? (Don't say here if you don't want to, but keep reminding yourself of it)

Also to say that abuse happens to all sorts. I've got a PhD and even earned more than exH. But he developed mental health problems and we're supposed to work at our relationships.
It happens to anyone!

When he hit me I was ready to leave. I think he thought he'd raise his game rather than be a better person, despite his words. It backfired spectacularly because that was the last drop. Still, I gave him another chance and he hit me again. In his mind he could get away with it. I called the police.
I totally get you because when I actually left, it was because he threatened DS so I wouldn't sign the complaint. That I couldn't allow.

This is to say that when you decide to leave, it's the most dangerous part. So far he hasn't beaten you or hurt the children, but he's quite capable of it.
This is not to scare you, but so that you plan your exit and just take off with no warning.
But don't get dragged down with details. Sort out the basics.

Finally, do you know how I seem to know so much about your husband? Abusers follow a scrip. From my own experience and so many similar threads here. They are so alike. And it's never just one form of abuse.
You are not alone.

I am also very concerned for the OP's children. But haranguing her - which is what some posters were doing yesterday - is not going to help. The OP's husband is a controlling abusive bully who tells her that she's a horrible terrible person. People telling her that on here is just going to reinforce that.

I am not going along with the fiction that there is no damage being caused to the OP's children because that is obviously not true but the OP is also a victim. She started this thread because she is so scared of her children having unsupervised contact with him so she knows.

How are you feeling today Cherry? I hope this thread is beneficial for you in some way, and that it is helping you to process the situation.

Starting this thread shows that you are considering it and it feels like a part of you knows they want to go and that it is bad for your children and you to continue as you are.

I understand that moving away from what you have always known and if that is an abusive situation where you are controlled is very scary.

Jiggly, it does reinforce that. I'm going to try to explain. I won't show DH this thread, which doesn't guarantee he won't see it, but even without showing him it I know what he'd say. It's like, I read a post and sometimes DHs voice gets in there before mine, I can hear exactly what he'd say in response.

When people post like Lweji does, he can't argue, it's calm, it's factual, it feels somehow like I'm in safe hands. When people say 'social services will remove your children' I know what he'd say. Posts like that just make me panicky. They don't help, at all.

I know there is something very wrong with me. Yes, I can 'blame' DH for some of that but the fact is DH didn't just choose me, I chose him.

So could you tell us what your DH would say in response to this thread, OP? Would he say it's fine to hit you? I'm guessing he would be in total denial about his repeated rapes but - just in case he does read this - there is no doubt whatsoever that making your wife have sex when she says no is rape, and it is a serious crime.

Yes, you chose him. But did you know the real him when you chose him?
Didn't he present to you the charming and lovely self he can be to you as he does for others? And that he still can do for you when he knows he's crossed a line, so that he reels you back in?

It doesn't matter that you chose him. You can change your mind at any time. It was an mistake and move on. You don't have to suffer for the rest of your life.

And, if there is something "wrong" with you, you can then work on yourself. Rebuild your self esteem, re-establish boundaries, etc. But free from the abuse.

The 16 year old you chose him - you were very young and he may have been a different person then. I don't think there is anything wrong with you other than the environment you are living in. You are not making him do these dreadful things to you - your only fault is letting them continue.

Hmm

He would say I wanted it.
He'd ask me to name a particular occasion when it happened. Then he'd justify it. That doesn't sound like much but honestly, he can, he has in the past done awful things then had ME crying and begging for forgiveness because he's somehow managed to twist it around so that I'm the one in the wrong!
He would scoff and say 'I don't hit you!'

Lweji, he did. But he did show me who he was. He did sometimes say 'you don't want to stay - the door is there, if you choose to stay you choose this.'
I was only young, I stayed, because I think I didn't have anybody else then. Well I still don't have anybody else but then I was scared to be in the house alone. That's the weird thing, that I feel so safe around him.

When I say I'm wrong, I don't quite mean that.

Oh dear, OP, that sounds so familiar - absolutely classic gaslighting.

I suspect that if you had known what he would be liked before you started associating with him, you would never have chosen him.

OP, of course decisions are up to you, but what you are telling us is really worrying. Of course posters shouldn't harangue you, but they are doing it because they are genuinely frightened for you. Please, please keep trying Women's Aid.

Honestly, don't be frightened for me I can handle DH. It honestly is not anything to be scared about.

You don't need to accept his justifications - just understand that no one, in any circumstances has the right to treat anyone that way, and even more so when it's someone they claim to love.

Of course it is something to be scared about - its terrible that you are living this way.

Look there is nothing wrong with you. He has systematically destroyed you over a number of years. He's lowered your dignity to nothing until you have become his personal plaything it his sick twisted game. That's the reality.

Another reality is that your kids are living in an abusive household. Me and others telling you that are not trying to make you hate yourself. We're trying to make you fight for your kids.

Your original post was 'How do you keep everyone safe' and everyone have you the same message, you need to leave. I know this is hard the countless amounts of women I have worked with found it hard too, and I really hope that sometime you will find the strength to do it before it's too late.

At this point I am questioning whether you have actually tried to speak to women's aid, I called them yesterday for a client and got straight through. Even if you somehow couldn't, have you emailed them on the address that me and another poster gave you?

Since you are absolutely determined to think about his feelings too I put this to you. If this did get out, then all the things that you don't want to happen to him will and your children would be removed until you could show that you could protect them. You can manage that situation now by leaving. Removing them from an abuser would show everyone that you have done everything you can to care for your children.

As you don't seem to understand what is and isn't abuse I would like to send you the checklist that we (and other professionals) use. It will help you see what is considered to be abuse. Would it be ok to pm you with the link?

You're being hit and you're being raped. I would be extremely scared if I lived with someone who was doing that to me, particularly if he then tries to convince me that none of it happened or that it's my fault and gets me to the point when I'm crying and begging for forgiveness for what he did.

You've acknowledged that you and your children are not safe with him. Please call Women's Aid now.

He would scoff and say 'I don't hit you!'

I had: if I really wanted to hit you, you'd have got a lot worse.

It's them rationalising it for themselves. Nothing to do with reality.

I can handle DH.

That's what probably all victims of DV have thought. Including the murdered victims.

I have tried to ring them and got through to an automated line and then this transfers you after you press one and both times its rang out to voicemail. I can't email them. I can't put it into words. I knew no one would believe me! The children are happy and safe and loved. It's me who gets pulled up when somethings not as it should be.

Yes Lweji it's along those lines. To be honest it's very unusual for him to hit now. Don't know why. But in the first - I'd say ten fifteen years of us being together, it happened a lot, just as you said, he'd smack my bottom hard and laugh if I got cross or objected. So I stopped and just put up with it. I used to laugh as well. And sometimes it didn't hurt and it was just fine.

At some point he will turn on the children. When they start getting their own voices and standing up to him.
Or when he loses it with you in front of him.

Even if you manage to hide it all, how would you imagine they'll feel as adults, if they find out what you've been through "for them"?
Do you think they'll thank you?

What happens when your mental health is destroyed? Will they thank you?

“Do not hold your breath for anyone,
Do not wish your lungs to be still,
It may delay the cracks from spreading,
But eventually they will.
Sometimes to keep yourself together
You must allow yourself to leave,
Even if breaking your own heart
Is what it takes to let you breathe.”
― Erin Hanson

he'd smack my bottom hard and laugh if I got cross or objected. So I stopped and just put up with it.

He didn't stop. He beat you to submission.

Oh Op, this is the saddest & scariest thing I've read on MN ever. I can only repeat what others have said - you need to report him & leave / get him out of the house.

He has absolute destroyed you & your confidence to the point that you can't properly tell right from wrong. This honestly reads like a horror story.

I wish you all the very best & hope that you find the inner strength eventually to save yourself & your DC from this monster.