Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 4

[Lilacpink40]

Hi all

Emily you are completely normal! Of course you love your dc to death but who wouldn't miss the freedom of being able to go out!
I am exactly the same - in fact last week I actually booked a bbsitter for Thurs so I could go to bookclub with my friends but then cancelled it cos I preferred to stay in with my DC asleep in my quiet house!
It's hard, but try not to let him going out bother you. Let him do his crazy thing with his mates, and be glad you're out of it and not subsidising the money pissed down the drain or putting up with him the following morning when he's hungover.
I'd perhaps plan yourself a great evening in for the same date - posh food, good TV and a new bubble bath. You'll sleep like a log!

Thanks Teabay, yes your right I am glad I'm not around for the hangover where he just lies around on the sofa complaining about the DC being too loud! It's such a strange feeling isn't it, one minute I'm angry that I'm at home and getting up through the night on my own but I also couldn't bear it to be the other way around and be without them 5 days a week! It just seems hard to detach myself from his life and be completely seperate and do as we each please.
Your right though I will get a take away & a DVD and snuggle up for the evening

Thanks Nats Good luck tonight, hope all goes well with the premiere.

And hope you're now (or very soon) holding your little bundle of joy Chrystal

Emily Just wanted to agree that your feelings are completely normal and justified. I think it feels so strange because you become used to thinking of yourselves as a unit. He was also now a dad as well as your partner, and the idea of him being out, single, with other single friends, just wasn't part of the deal until very recently.

It's taken me until quite recently to enjoy being out without my dc, and mine are a lot older than yours. I remember that feeling of wanting to go out, then being there and wanting to go home and be with them! Once you get your single head on firmly it's great. I like being the one who's not checking the clock, having to deal with texts and questions from home, just being able to relax and have only myself to answer to

I'm nearly 2 years down the line and am glad when the dc's say ex has gone/is going out. I think thank god, stops him from moping around and being a miserable bugger !!

nice I'm glad it is normal and will (hopefully) pass. It just feels weird as I definatley don't want him back and I'm so much happier without but the idea of him going out properly as a single group of guys makes me feel so uneasy and I feel sort of angry that he has nothing to answer to and can just go out all night but I can't, which is also weird as if I did ask him to have DC of an evening (would be a nightmare with breastfed baby) he would probably have them but I wouldn't want to go! Not worrying about anyone/being questioned after getting home does sound great though as ex always ruined a night out anyway by his paranoid questions and nasty digs the day(s) after!

I'm with you on the moping/miserable and hopefully the happier a life they lead the less grief they would give... wishful thinking maybe!

It is a weird dilemma - you'd like to go out all night, he'd probably have them, but you wouldn't really want to be out all night ! From what I see men (probably because they're the NRP) can slip back very quickly into being single.

My ex wasn't exactly tearing up the dance floor before I met him. He's quite shy, seemed to enjoy family life, and did to be fair always encourage me to go out. I always had to set everything up beforehand though, which was annoying. I could come home when it suited me, but I always worried a bit about if he was coping when they were small.

From this thread it would appear that lots of WNs aren't any nicer to their exs when they're in a new relationship etc. My main reason for hoping my ex meets someone/gets more of a social life, is to stop him passing his feelings of being a victim onto the dc. He's too immature to realise how damaging this is.

Hi dusters I think exactly the same as you regarding the new gf. My ex has one and the DC met her at Xmas, but not her DC.
I thought that he might not be so mad with me, but nothing has changed there. I do think, though, that if he has someone else to carry his emotional shit then he's less likely to load it selfishly onto his fragile 9yo DD....

I always found that as most of my friends were also mums, nights out would be few and far between and planned like a military operation months in advance whereas ex would be more of a 'going out for a drink with whoever' type a few days before as his friends are mainly through work and largely unattached/divorced men. Can you trust your ex more with the DC now? Must be hard on them if they are passed on the 'poor me' act from their dad.

Teabay he can't be particularly happy with new gf if he is still so angry with you surely. Why can they not put past their own feelings to spare those of the DC, so selfish..

Emily
The new gf deserves a medal as big as a dustbin lid.

Me - mine's as big as the bin lorry....

mine's as big as the bin lorry - that made me laugh

Emily I do trust him with the dc. He's a bit immature but I wouldn't say irresponsible. He sees them very regularly, always on time for pick ups, never mucks around with arrangements. But he just has this way about him. He tells the dc very little of his life, and certainly of his thoughts/hopes/plans etc. I think he worries what they'll tell me. It's a shame he doesn't realise I don't care. I actually want him to move on, meet someone, make new friends, be happy. But that doesn't fit with his world view.

I know instantly if my dd is talking to him on the phone. She loves him, they get on and she cares about him. But she's almost robotic. He phones the days he doesn't see them, and asks exactly the same questions, in the same order. It makes me so frustrated. It's as if without me and the dc around him he himself has become robotic.

Urgh hungover. Paleface was at the premiere, he's quite a famous musician in Finland so him talking about my brother gets the story out there more. We had a nice chat, he seemed really interested in the whole thing.

Hi all, I haven't felt able to write about WN recently. He's made me think I am wrong again. After the court order he's stepped up a gear in trying to manipulate DCs and me. Even tried to make me break court order and is in full on attacking victim mode. I'm putting all contact through email so if I need to take him to court (as he's not following order yet) I'll have a record.

I have been reading and get solace in not being alone although I wish us all normality and happiness.

Good luck Chystal looking forward to updates.

Teabay it definatley sounds like you deserve a medal you almost feel sorry for new girlfriends/potential gfs as they wont know for a while what they are really like in the honeymoon type phase where they can easily cover up the nasty traits.. It puts me off men in the future as things with my ex were great for the first year or so before the controlling/manipulative side came through so starting fresh with someone new seems terrifying!

nice that's so lovely that you aren't bitter and just want him to be happy, do you think in his mind he would like to think you aren't over him/want him back and doesn't want to tell the DC for that reason? How old is your DD? I sometimes get the robot voice from DS who's 5, yes, yes, no, okay bye

Nats glad you had a nice evening, fingers Crossed for you!

lilac sorry you have been getting grief yes definatley, keep all contact via emails and keep everything! Could you organise someone else do to drop offs with the DC so you don't need to see him?

Emily - you're completely normal.

Natsku - I'm glad the evening went well. Will the documentary be aired over here

Lilac - WNs never like being told what do they do, do they?

Chrystal - hope you're doing well.

I find myself wishing I was in the place so many of you are, emotionally: I just cannot seem to move past living a fictional character. I see him 3 weekends out of 4 and every bloody time it sets me back again - the co-dependant part of me goes into overdrive. I hate it.

Frog I'm sure it will come in time, and sometimes it's really hard to emotionally move on, I find it really easy through the week when I don't actually see him, or when he is being particularly nasty. But when even the tiniest hint of the person I used to love comes through I still crumble.

Nats Sounds like you had a good evening, glad to hear you've got some high profile interest.

Lilac D'you think this latest round of Wank Narkery stems from the holiday announcement? If so, you know you're not in the wrong. What, the headline in WN world is "Responsible mum takes children on holiday with her own money" ??? Just emailing sounds good, you have a paper trail and don't have to hear his voice .

Emily I really don't understand him, so to answer your question I don't know. Part of me thinks he'd come back tomorrow, another part thinks he hates me.

My dd is 12 (just). I said to her the other day why does dad always ask you the same questions. I suggested she get in first, ask him about his day. She replied I haven't really got anything else to say to him, and just shrugged and smiled ruefully. That made me so sad, for both of them. Then I feel the guilt kicking in, that my decision to end things means I've changed their relationship. But I remind myself of how he made me feel, and that it's his responsibility to work on his relationship with dd.

YY to crumbling when you see a chink of the person you loved. I don't think there's any moving on from that, just time passing and acceptance. Very, very hard.

Dusters - you are right about him being responsible for his relationship with his children (unless you are purposefully interfering with it via manipulation/coercion/toxic behaviours - which I cannot imagine you doin fir one second)

Don't feel guilty.

I recently took the decision to cut the father of my eldest out of his life completely. This decision came after the better part of 10 years of trying. My eldest is better off without him. I'll keep correspondence for reading at a later date and I do feel it's the right decision but it doesn't stop me from regularly ruminating and second-guessing myself - such is the nature of having procreated with a WN (and in my case having been brought up in a dysfunctional family).

How would the guilt feel in 15yrs time when your DD is sobbing at your kitchen table because she's desperately trying to seek approval from a WN "because he says he loves her" and her model of a relationship was one where the wife put up and shut up whilst the WN acted unreasonably ...

Please try to reframe this - you are actually FREEING your DC of being in any kind of emotionally eggshell treading behaviour!

It takes a strong woman to do it.

Frog if you haven't had any yet, get counselling, if you have perhaps you need to try with a different counsellor. Dealing with them is never easy cos you were used to believing their lies and false persona.

Nats glad it went well, hope it gets screened more widely.

Lilac it's all just a headfuck. Just remember you are NOT dealing with a normal person. When you don't need to contact him ignore him completely he is just not going to be reasonable at all ever. Stick to the order stick to parroting back at him the same response if possible. Something bland like 'that doesn't work for me' or 'that's not an option'. And ignore the WN response, difficuluand frustrating but it means you are not feeding his need to get a rise from you. Do grey rock at its best.

Dusters it is extremely sad that they can't or won't see that they are the ones who lose out eventually. My WN has made little to no effort with our DD2 to the extent that the only furniture in her room in the flat he rented (and now lives in with OW) is a single bed but blames me and says that she doesn't like seeing him there because there is nothing to do! Clearly entirely my fault that he can't be bothered to create a home for her with him. Unfortunately even with DD's it is still all about him!

Emily I know I have found the same about arranging nights out. Mums need notice and tend to have smaller close friend groups men have 'mates' who they know generally and there are usually a few around for drinks. This doesn't apply to my WN apart from in the first few weeks when he was lying about being in a relationship with OW so he was going out alone.

YY to the nights out/in.

WN would send a 'fancy a beer' text to a friend and thus it occurred.

Anything I wanted to do needed planning and execution - I gave up in the end.

I tried to point out the disparity of experiences - it went over his head (I was just a complaining, miserable, mentally-I'll, controlling bitch). He completely refused to examine the major differences in our parenting realities and still does nearly 18 months on.

I cannot help but feel angry at the gaps in understanding that there is still, despite many pioneering voices before us, this chasm of understanding from men in general about the realities of being a mother

Love this, frog

Just to say hello, I'm new and REALLY happy to see this thread is here (not happy that there are so many douchebag ex's out there though!). X

nice please do not feel guilty even for a second! A good dad would use every little opportunity to be with their children and create strong bonds and relationship with them, if he hasn't done that it's his fault, not yours. Although i do know how you feel as I sometimes feel that guilt when DS will ask why daddy cant stay at ours to take him to school and I feel a bit selfish I put my happiness first then I remember that him not copying his fathers actions towards woman or my DD settling for a man like that is why I left and to create a happy home.

Frog you have got it in one! I have maybe four close friends who I will socialise with mainly with our DC and very rarely alone but they have all been amazing through the breakup whereas ex has many 'mates' who seem up for going out etc. but none have shown any support or understanding and never respected him being a father if that makes sense.

Nice to meet you proudtrout!

I totally agree Frog "chasm of understanding" is an excellent description.

I always say that my desire to protect and do the right thing by my dc far outweighs any feelings, positive or negative, I have towards my ex. I think, with a few exceptions, men just don't have this almost knee-jerk response. I've had people say to me that I'm too good to him, as regards how much they see him etc. For me that's like saying I'm doing too much for my dc.

I do believe that both my dc, particularly my ds, will grow up with a much stronger sense of self, feel more able to speak their minds and see women being strong as a result of what's happened. I think part of the reason my relationship didn't survive what happened to us was because I do speak my mind, and am not a 1950s style housewife. If I'd been meek and said nothing we'd probably still be together.

Oh, and my ex never liked MN ! I'd occasionally laugh out loud and say what I was reading. He usually rolled his eyes.

Red the bare bedroom sounds very familiar. I've encouraged them to take stuff there, but they've always been reluctant. I think it's because he hasn't made it "their" other home, it's daddy's rented house. Whenever I suggest something they say no, daddy can't do that it's not his house. I say just lean the picture against the wall if he can't put it up? But no, they're not interested. I want to shake him, but he's a blank page (as I told him in one of my letting rip moments !!)

Oh dusters, we are so silly with our little women's online forums, aren't we. Bless the men's tolerating our little dalliances

Funny you should say about the '1950's' attitude. Ex WN would regularly declare he wasn't done 1950's man - funny thing is that one of the first things the CAFCASS officer said to me at out first interview was that he had declared that this was so and yet that being a '1950's' man was exactly how he had come across to her. I didn't imagine this conversation (as I have been told so many times in the past that I imagined or forgot things). I know this conversation with the CAFCASS officer happened because so recorders it and have subsequently listened to it.