Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 4

[Lilacpink40]

Hi all

Hi Biblio I remember you from earlier on the thread. Of course you're welcome to come on for a moan. You say wander in, having read your post I think you're entitled to come running in and ninja kick the door down.

I've no experience of the CSA/CMS. How ridiculous they have to ask nicely for information. He has a NI number, and has deliberately withheld information as to change of circumstances. It's hardly finding a needle in a haystack. HMRC have massive powers to track people down and demand information. I always find it interesting that the CSA/CMS weren't set up with such powers. I'm sure it's a political and social decision.

That's so shitty about the guilt and your poor dd. It may be hard for her to know that her dad is far from perfect, but hopefully better for her mental health than to think she is the cause of reduced contact with him.

Thanks nice. One good thing is that it made me go back to the Relate children's counselling service to ask where dd is on the waiting list. All being well, within 1-3 months she should get the chance to talk to someone neutral about it. Poor kid, I just want to lighten the load of guilt and anxiety. Her nails are bitten to the quick, and last night she had a nightmare that her dad had a serious disease in his leg that was spreading.

Even with all this, she's still less guilty and anxious than she was two years ago, when she was spending more time with him.

Hi Biblio Sorry CSA/CMS are being so shit. The UK really ought to follow the system we have over here - if the non-resident parent isn't paying their child maintenance then the State pays the legal minimum (roughly 150 euros for one child) directly to the parent while at the same time pursuing the other parent for what they owe, charging interest as well, and as soon as they collect they pay directly to the resident parent (if the maintenance was set above the legal minimum, or if it wasn't, then the interest gets paid to the parent anyway) so the children don't have to go without that basic support and because the State will be out of pocket if they don't pursue efficiently then they are very motivated to find out where the parent works and how much they earn (does help that everyone's tax record is public info, and a person can be tracked to their job very easily by their personal identity number, grey area work is harder to track but if someone is working under the table they'll at least be claiming benefits so the money gets taken directly off their benefits)

Wow that was wordy. Anyway, the UK needs to copy that!

That's a brilliant system Nats. The children don't lose out, the right person gets chased and the non-resident parent doesn't have to do the chasing.

That is a brilliant system Nats. I agree it must have been a political and social decision not to set up similar here.
Welcome biblio and so sorry to hear your daughter is finding this tough. I also have a 9yo daughter and am in the process of accessing help for her, I've been recommended Relate for children by the GP but don't know if that's just to deal with the divorce or if it will help her deal with her narcistic dad better.

Today it's WNs birthday. He usually calls the children one day a week whilst he drives to work. He hasn't called this week yet so I thought he would call on his birthday. He didn't. Girls knew his birthday was today from previous conversations but didn't ask to call. Admittedly I didn't push the idea on them either. But I thought he would then call in the evening to speak to them but he didn't. So they haven't spoken on his birthday. I feel guilty that I have somehow deprived the children of this even though he was free to call them. Stuck in 'Must keep pleasing him' mode I think.

Hope you ladies are all ok. We are keeping on x

Thanks nice and Nat. I agree that the system that makes the state out-of-pocket if a NRP doesn't pay up is going to mean a state that pursues the matter with greater vigour.

If anyone knows of good resources for children, it would be good to share. I can feed back on Relate for kids when we eventually get to the top of the waiting list. DD got a lot from ELSA at school, but unfortunately the person doing it left. The website is worth a look though - it does have resources for parents.

Hi everyone, could I join?

I am newly single with two DCs, and struggling to find a balance with an increasingly difficult ex!

We were together for 7 years from when I was 17 so he has formed the most part of my adult life, we split before a few years back as he is lazy, unsupportive and forever put himself first before the children, I just could not bare the 'attention' he seems to demand. After our split last time we both started seeing other people but as soon as he found out about me he started a huge row which ended in him getting physical. After about 6 months we got back together as I genuinely believed it was a mistake and he was resentful (feel stupid now). This time I had really had enough and kicked him out about a month ago after he regularly kept going out drinking with friends and using money that we needed to pay bills. I had hoped we could remain friendly enough for our children (5yo & 6mo) particularly as the youngest has health issues and is breastfed so he can't really spend time with her alone. However over the last week he is forever texting me saying I will never find anyone else because I'm so awful, calling me a c**t, I've ruined the children's lives etc. I told him he could have our eldest when he's off but I'm not prepared to spend time with him at the moment for him to see the baby after all the verbal abuse and I am worried that he has this history of being physical that he could turn on me if he got angry. This has turned it all into a nastier battle as he is now saying I'm withholding contact with the baby and he will take me to court for full custody as the children would be happier with him because I'm such an awful mum. Although I know this wouldn't happen and is probably all threats it is all so exhausting to deal with particularly when looking after 2 children on my own, the baby having lots of extra needs as well as 'normal' baby things like waking up through the night etc.

Sorry for the long post!

Hi Emily he sounds like a WN (wank narc) alright, if he has a history of getting physical with you then you are definitely right to refuse to take baby to see him. Did you report his earlier abuse or tell anyone like a doctor or someone? That would be really helpful if he does take you to court.

Hi Nats yes when it happened at the time I reported it to the police, it wasn't taken very serious by them as it was my word against his and I had no visible injuries but at least it is on record. I really want him to have a relationship with his DC but I don't feel like that has to come at the cost of having to spend time with someone like that and I just think it's another way to manipulate me and try to convince himself in his own head that it's all me in the wrong, I know he never told his parents the truth behind the reasoning of our split and I can imagine him now with the 'she won't let me see the kids' and everyone thinking I am using the children to hurt him which isn't what I want!

That's really good that you got it on record. I'm wondering about whether mentioning to your HV or something that you're worried about custody and visitation issues as you don't feel safe to take baby to his. That means your reasoning for doing this would be on record with a professional from the start so if he does take you to Court it might be helpful. Not sure though as I don't really know who is best to mention that kind of thing to in the UK - I told social workers every time I had to withhold contact but that might not be the best way to go about it in the UK.

Got a date for the documentary première, quite excited about going to that

Hi Emily. It sounds like you're doing the right thing, putting your dc first and also ensuring your physical safety. I agree with Nats about recording your worries and fears with as many official parties as possible. If your dc is 5 you could speak to the school just to give them the heads up as regards your situation. I think the Health Visitor is also a good person to speak to.

As is said so often on here, you only have to facilitate contact between your ex and the dc. Your relationship with him is over, you don't have to see or speak to him. You don't have to tolerate being sworn at and called vile names. Whenever I see a man has called the mother of his children the "c" word I always think he has no boundaries.

I think you have good reason to withhold contact for your youngest. If they're bf and have health issues, how is he going to be with them for any length of time without you? Unless he is prepared to treat you with respect and meet in a neutral place (ie not your home) I don't see how you can arrange contact. He's the one putting up barriers through his behaviour, not you. Of course that's not how he's going to frame it to his family. But you know the truth, and so does he, which is what matters.

My advice is to go in hard from the outset. If you don't, he sounds like the type of person who will try and manipulate and threaten you from now on. The more he gets away with it the more confident he'll feel to continue. Are you in a position to see a solicitor? A simple letter stating that you are not withholding contact, and then setting out what contact is possible at the present time. You can say why you are not prepared to be alone with him (physical aggression, and then quote some of his texts). You can also say he is only to text you about information relating to the dc. Anything else you will ignore.

If he then says I'll take you to court, do you feel you could call his bluff and say fine, do so? Does he have the finances, the energy, the wherewithal? The stuff about the custody is rubbish as you rightly say.

Nats Are you going to be on the red carpet at the premiere? The Daily Fail might do a piece about your dress ! Seriously, that sounds good, hopefully it will attract some publicity. Do you have another date to see Piers Morgan on the GMB sofa?

Don't think they bother with red carpets at our national telly studios
Don't have a date yet for GMB, they might be waiting for the announcement of my brother's appeal, or for the NHS news to die down.

Hi Emily. Good advice from the gang here as usual.

Just to say that actually one of the Court rulings in my case has made a positive impact on my life - twice when my Ex has contact he collects DC from school, then overnight, then drops at school. It is fabulous from the point of view that I don't have to see him or feel sick at all.

I think you are absolutely right with regards to the baby, you need to feel safe. Is there a family member who could be a host something.

Good luck with it all, you must be exhausted.

Thank you everyone.
The incident of violence was the only time I saw that side to him in 7 years and he has never been aggressive or nasty to the children but I do worry in the back of my mind that he now feels out of control and angry with the decisions made about our lives so who knows what he would do and I don't think it's particularly healthy for the children to be around a tense horrible atmosphere, he really is completely deluded, calls me horrible things and sends me nasty texts then thinks he can show up the following day and we will all go out as a family
I really hope this all gets better I don't think I could bare this for the rest of our lives!

I think that sort of behaviour Emily is good justification for you to be very wary of him. Deluded sounds like exactly the right word. Who in their right mind says/texts the things he does, then thinks you'll spend the day with him. It shows a complete disconnect with what's really happening in his life.

Maybe once he's over the shock of splitting from you he will come to his senses, and be more reasonable. In the meantime I think you have every right to act as you are.

Hi Purple How are things going with your son ? Did you get your car sorted?

Hi dusters, car is fixed with a hefty bill, may be on it's last legs but hopefully will last a bit longer.

DS situation is calm at the mo. He seems quite happy. I guess when things get tough I worry I am enough for him and no positive male role models and it all seems worse than it is. Someone recommended Headspace - Mindfulness app. I am going to try that - although God knows when! I know I need to build myself up emotionally in the right way. I can't go on feeling so alone and so under attack from WNs.

I think it's almost like if he repeats his rubbish enough he believes it himself and actually thinks he is this great guy and I am just being difficult for the fun of it
Last Saturday he had DS for 'the day' but after a few hours he had DS call me to say he wanted to come home so of course I had to say okay and then ended up having to spend the afternoon with ex asking why I was so grumpy

As exhausting as looking after the baby alone is its actually much easier than having a man child around to pick up after. When baby naps today I plan on bagging up all his crap here so he can stop making excuses to pop over for irrelevant items then cause trouble when I say no (often when kids are in bed)

Does this ever get easier?
When I get a minute I'll read through the thread but to you all for managing to get through with these twattish fathers!!

Has anyone else gone through CSA when ex is self employed?? He's saying he can't be around much for them because he's working long hours but at the same time also says he has no money so can pay any maintenance?
I think if I go through CSA he will downplay his earnings and declare bare minimum but I'm struggling to support them alone waiting for him to be reasonable.

Hi Emily, I posted an answer but it seems to have vanished. In summary, it will now be the CMS rather than the CSA. CSA weren't usually great with self-employed non-payers: I don't know if CMS will be much better. I still think it's worth trying - they'll only backdate your claim to the day you make it, not to the date of the split, so delaying things now might potentially cost you money. If you want to give him a chance to do the right thing voluntarily, that's fine, but don't let him keep stalling. My ex is pretty awful (see previous posts!) but in many ways it's a relief that it's someone else's job to keep chasing him, not mine.

Just one other thing - payments are calculated based on the amount of overnights the other parent has them, so sometimes the NRP (non-resident parent) starts pushing for more time, purely to reduce their payments. There some RPs, including me for several years, who tread softly when it comes to claiming child maintenance/support to avoid triggering demands for more contact.

In my case, any attempts by me to "tread softly" always bring out the bully in my exH, so I'm not advising this as a way forward.

That was meant to be a "my ex is a pretty awful payer" but "my ex is pretty awful" applies too!

And yes, it does get easier, in the sense that you get less emotionally tied up in it. I left 7.5 years ago and there are still problems, more for dd than for me, but it has become more of a background to my life than centre-stage.

Glad to see things with your DS are calmer at the moment Purple. I've heard good things about the Headspace app. As you know I'm a keen advocate of mindfulness, and have been interested in Buddhism for many years. Meditation groups can be amazing.

I'm not at all religious, in fact I dislike organised religion. But the practice of Buddhism has made a huge difference to my life. I'm not "a buddhist", just interested in it. Windhorse publications do some great books. Like you say, once you feel stronger in yourself it helps when dealing with difficult situations.

Thanks dusters randomly discovered a local Mindfulness Course today - that is during the day on the one day I have a window!! Meant to be. I feel I need some instruction, I have books but can never find the peace or concentrate enough to get into them!! Hence the need for some Mindfulness!!

Thank you for the advice!

At the moment there aren't any times he could have them overnight as he doesn't have his days off in a row and gets home too late the day before, if it did go to court surely they wouldn't rule that the baby would have to stay overnight or even for long periods with being breastfed and won't take a bottle?!

It's horrible because I really need the support and it has come at a really awkward time with the baby needing new things (highchair, cot etc.) but I just know as soon as I file a request for maintenance officially he will get difficult, he is one of those people where he has to suggest an idea if that makes sense but as you said I don't want to delay it if he has no intentions of paying either way and don't want to have any contact with him at all and asking him personally for financial support just gives him another way to control me, I'm sorry you are still having grief 7 years on

I am going to have a read of the thread as I feed the baby