Support thread for those of us having to 'co-parent' with a narc or very difficult exh thread 4

[Lilacpink40]

Hi all

on it's so frustrating. To outsiders it looks like I'm over reacting, but honestly it's like a death of a thousand paper cuts.
For her birthday he bought a racing bike with drop handlebars etc. Most people would think "wow, that's brilliant" but it's not. She fell off hurt her knees and he made her go straight out again. This was last month.
She's been cycling for a while, but it's his hobby and getting her a bike and making her ride when she doesn't want to it is hurt is purely so that he can continue his hobby.

I'm sorry everyone else has WN ex's but in glad it's not just me.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the narcissistic controlling one, but if I was I wouldn't be bothered would I?

Also when I stand up to WN about how DD is being treated he just tells me that DD is playing us off against each other! I mean she could be, but I very much doubt it.

long he's just reflecting it back on to you when you stand up to him. He's trying to maintain control.

It's normal for us to wonder if we are the difficult one's. As we are able to self reflect. Narcs just point the finger at everyone else and hope people are to stupid to question their warped thinking.

Hi everyone regular and new, hope you all had WN free (or at least ignorable!) xmas and New Years
Sorry I've not been about much, busy holidays. As expected SF didn't even bother to ask to see DS1 over xmas (he got him a shitty shower gel gift which DS3 passed on to me) and actually hasn't contacted me about him at all! DS1 not the least bit interested in seeing him either. Have got my cafcass meeting on the 11th, thankfully it's not far to waddle lol that's squeezed in between midwife (day before) and hospital (few days after) appointments.
On the positive my mum has been coming round to help tidy the house, get washing put away etc so we're now all ready for d-day and the house is spotless 😊 Lol

Onthe yes my DCs left with GPs overnight so he's had a year of freedom every eve. They've only had 7 sleepovers since split anyhow and my DD is wary of WNexMIL. Apparently I'm unreasonable for wanting 2-3 nights off a month.

Longdays what Onthe saus is true. WN twist things so the victim feels guilty. Scary thing is thst they're so desperate to believe it they almost convince themselves.

Good to hear bump and you're well Crystal.

lila he's not had the kids overnight for a year? That's ridiculous.

I'm just so fed up of being controlled. At least it's not 24/7 anymore I guess

lilac 7 overnights in a year is nuts and then to leave them with the GPs on each of them is even worse.

Good to hear from you Chrystal. Glad DS1 isn't bothered about his dad's lack of interest. You must be counting down your waddling days now!

Longdays at least when your ex-mil can't help out before and after school your dd will have one less controlling person in her life. Just to say, and I'll probably alienate half the thread here, but I wasn't surprised to see your ex's hobby was cycling.

I live in an area plagued with lycra clad, selfish male cyclists. I occasionally go to where they congregate for snacks. Some of the conversations! You've never heard such a load of testosterone fuelled boasting and bullshit. My favourite ever was "Oh doing the Marathon? I stopped that a couple of years back, not challenging enough. Just do Iron-man now." I wanted to choke him with my cookie

My ex (some narc traits but mainly just a twat!) has been very quiet of late. We've been no contact apart from the odd text or note for about the last 15 months. After an incident about 3 months ago I stopped this even, and my dd (nearly 12) just mentions times/dates etc to him (there's rarely anything else to discuss).

I've been gray rock, and it seems to be working. He knows I don't care, not interested, don't want to communicate with him. I'm still always flexible and proactive about them seeing him, I think it's fair all round. If the dc tell me things he's said or done that I don't agree with I tell them what I think. I don't run him down, just say what I would if it was anybody else behaving that way. I've found it much less stressful since I stopped trying to polish his image. The dc seem to accept this, and I still say positive things and share nice memories when I can. Still hard sometimes though.

Ontheball I'm assuming your ex thinks your dc's issues are down to you?

Dusters, as you are familiar with the gray rock system and it sounds good, if your ex isn't happy with something you're arranging how do you avoid the conflict?

I'm going to take DCs abroad for the first time this year for a holiday and, although he won't want to take them for a week himself, I know he'll want to stop it. He likes to be able to see them for dinner one evening mid-week. He drops them back tired and sugar wired. He likes the Disney dad moments. Also has them one a day a weekend in the day. If he does an o/n he picks the night and then drops as his parents anyhow.

nice are you in Milton Keynes by any chance? I know a group of cyclists there and I remember those conversations

dusters he's tried to imply it in a round about way in email. I accept now he'll never take responsibility for how his actions affect our children so leave him to it.

Not Milton Keynes Long , further south. I'm not anti cycling at all, just anti the competitive, three-a-breast, my mud guards bigger than yours brigade!!

Lilac I've been thinking about your question as to how conflict is avoided. Just for background (apologies for repeating myself) we have very set contact days. Two evenings per week, one is a sleepover. All day one weekend. Having said that they often also sleepover once at the weekend (usually through me offering) and see him at additional times when possible. Again, this is me saying "do you want to have dc on xxx because .........".

Also, he hasn't met anybody else and doesn't have a particularly active social life.

Firstly, I present it as this is what I'm going to do. I don't make unreasonable requests (as I know you don't), and as it always involves the dc I don't feel I have to ask his permission. If I'm suggesting something which clashes with his contact day/night, I always offer an alternative and/or additional time at the outset. So he can't say no just because it's "his" night, as I've always already offered an alternative and usually extra time.

If he has a valid reason for not wanting or being able to swap then I do of course alter my plans if I can.

If he does try to pick a fight about something, I just try and sound like a broken record. I just repeat that something has come up, or has been booked for ages, or the dc are desperate to go, so he'll just have to accept it. This is when I always try and remember that I'm not communicating with a regular person. I would never normally be so high-handed and stubborn, but I have to be.

Also, as I think you or Purple said, never use them as Plan A, or even B. So, I never ask him to babysit. I may offer a sleepover if I know I'm going out, but I don't rely on him.

Ultimately my stance is I'm the resident parent, the dc's lives revolve around where they live, their schools, friends etc, and I'm the link with all that. So if something comes up then he has to accept that time with their dad, just like time with their mum, may be eaten into.

I also say to myself what's he actually going to DO? I know what he may think, say to other people, blah blah. But what can he physically do to change anything. So, if

Whoops posted too soon......

So, if I tell him that such and such will be happening, as he knows there's no point arguing with me, he just has to accept it.

OntheBall Yes, I agree that's the way to go. They never can see or accept that their behaviour is questionable, so it's a losing battle from the outset.

Best to save your sanity and do an internal head tilt whilst thinking "Really, d'you think so?" with a Daily Mail sad face (Waves to Nats and dd, the masters of the DM sad face !!)

dusters I love the Daily Mail sad face

Dusters thanks for support. You make many good points, which I will re-read as prep. Ones thst stood out for me are that I am the DCs resident parent and I can offer him extra time. Just got to say it firmly, broken record if he has excuses, and ignore sulking. I think it was purple who said WNs are never your plan A option, as in never rely on them.

I've received court forms and good news is that ex has as much responsibility to get himself off mortgage as I do to get him off. We should split any additional charges and have 56 days to implement change, so not as much panic as I thought. I can now apply for decree absolute so he will fully be my ex.

Weirdly I feel really emotionally flat. Friends and family have wished me well, but I keep thinking that this isn't where I wanted to be. I wanted a regular family unit with deep love and confidence in each other. New BF and I are highly damaged by our previous experiences, DCs are unsettled, the ones that left for affairs our exes are in stable positions. Sorry for moan!

Hi everyone! I've been fairly quiet, and haven't caught up with the thread.
I've had a weird week, more threats, more coercive bullshit. New number, new email address. Still no action from the police. I'm sick of it!

Sorry I've been a bit quiet. How is everyone? There have been a couple if things happening with DC and I would have expected WN to have sent a message. He's up to something. He's going to hit me with something.

Did you see news about how the court should stop the cross examination of those who have been abused/suffered coercive control?

Goodness... ex wants DC overnight soon. I'm scared. DC won't cope. How can I stop it without the court?!

Nice, I'm trying to learn your method of doing what you want. Whenever I want to do something with DC which clashes, it's such a chore. I have to rehearse things. And I'm never that insistent. I feel like I have to ask with a cherry on top. How old are yours again nice?

Glad it was of use Lilac. It's taken me a while to get to this place, but it's been worth it. Great news on the mortgage - time, money and hassle wise.

I'm not surprised you're feeling flat. Ok, it's the tidying up of a situation that needed sorting, but you didn't want to be in this position in the first place. Even the world's most amicable and smooth divorce must still feel crap. So add in an affair, a WN, an OW, crap parenting - why would you get the bunting out. But it will be done, and that chapter will be closed.

I totally get the damage comment. But you're probably both also wiser, more cautious, realistic, and in a weird way eventually stronger. Your DC will find their feet. I used to watch mine like a hawk for the first few months. I think I thought a Harry Potter type mark might appear on their head, or they'd crumple into a little pile. But they're ok. They've had to grow up faster in some ways more than I would have liked. But they're good people readers now, pretty savvy. I'm sure there's stuff churning inside, but there's worse stuff kids have to deal with (in my opinion).

Also, you know that egg on toast is a red flag when it comes to dating. What else do you need !!

FeeltheNoise Sorry to see it's not been a good week. Perhaps you'll have time to post later with more details?

Hi Homely My dd is nearly 12, ds is 9. Got to run, will post later.

I'm about to go through the ipcc. The police just won't act. When is a crime not a crime? When you have children together
I'm also shocked by the terrible advice the police gave. She suggested I initiate contact proceedings so that I can hold my head up high. This isn't about holding my head up high, this is about my baby being safe. She said that when he messes up a contact order, then I can stop contact with my head held high. Um, no because my son could actually die in the process! She then commented that he's had few arrests and no convictions for domestic violence. That's because police don't act!

I just can't comprehend that he can do this and get away with it time and time again.
The problem is that police look at each incident in isolation, but the bigger picture is both relevant and frightening

FeeltheNoise Just checked back to remind myself of your previous posts. He sounds horrendous, and his dreadful mother and other family members.

So if I've got this right you have a younger dc who is nc with your ex? Is your ex trying to establish contact with him, with the possibilty of overnights in the future? Or does the contact and fear of overnights apply to your older dc? You've said ex is a chronic alcoholic and drinks more at night, hence the added problem with sleepovers.

I take it that, like me, his contact is not court ordered, you have agreed it between yourselves. I agree that the police advice about having a contact order to enable you to hold your head up high is nonsense. It's about reasonable, and safe, contact for the dc. If you don't think they would be safe overnight with him then that's that. As you say, it's not about pride. So at the moment there is some unsupervised contact?

You said he had threatened to come to your house at xmas with presents, even though he knows he shouldn't. Do you have an injunction/order against him to stop him coming, or is this what you have told him? I told my ex never to come to the door or speak to me after he was argumentative with me in front of the dc. Before that he'd picked a couple of arguments with me in private, including behaving in an intimidating way. I'd watched someone close to me have her ex trample all over her for years. That made me decide I'd take the nuclear option at the outset. He has never come to the house or spoken to me. I think mainly because he's an arrogant, proud man who can't bear being told what to do. So he thought b**cks to you - thank god !!

Did he come at xmas, if he did what happened? Also, what are the main things he does that the police don't take action over. Is he violent towards you and/or the dc, or is it all threats, intimidation etc face to face, via phone and email etc?

Hope you don't mind all the questions, just trying to get a sense of the situation.

Homely1 It is hard. I suppose in my mind I thought our dc are not little gift wrapped presents, to be sent to you now and again for Disney style fun. For me, I've tried to make their being with/at their dads just a routine part of their life.

I send homework if necessary, or the message that they need a bath. I don't stage manage at all (I used to). He does virtually none of the mundane stuff with them, eg haircuts, dentist, clothes shopping. But I'd rather do all that myself, as he always did that thing of being deliberately a bit crap at the mundane stuff, so that I'd do it. He definitely won't do it properly now, so I just do.

The best thing for me is that I've managed to stop wanting to argue the toss with him. For example, a while back he wanted regular sleepovers on a Sunday night. I said no, they needed to be in their own home the night before school. We had a bit of a text battle, me putting my points, him disagreeing. I essentially kept repeating the same thing. If that happened today, I'd just say why it wasn't happening, then ignore any further texts.

Luckily I think we both became bored of the point scoring (well I did) so it's of no interest anymore. I know that things will arise in the future that will drive me mad, so I'll have to keep taking my own advice - hopefully!

Dusters don't "get the bunting out" made me laugh 😂
I've done it, took your advice, told ex in matter of fact way about holiday. He was surprised but I got in quickly, said he could have more time if he wants it and made my excuse to close door. We'll see what happens next...

Noise it sounds highly unfair and stressful I think Dusters questions may help us MNters suggest some support.

Homely how do your DC feel about o/n with your ex?