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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Can anyone help me work out what happened last night with DH - TW rape

170 replies

WoIsMe · 12/12/2016 10:57

I had too much to drink last night and I'm not sure exactly what happened, I was hoping someone could give me some perspective as I'm on the verge of packing a bag for DH and telling him not to come home tonight.

We were in bed and I asked DH to put some emollient cream on my back because I have eczema there but I can't reach it easily. He couldn't find the cream so he grabbed some Nivea For Men moisturiser. I immediately asked him to stop as it has perfume in but despite my protests he put it all over my back (I was lying on my tummy and he was astride me so I couldn't move out of the way). It burned my eczema so he went to get a Lush massage bar to use instead - I assume for the cocoa butter. I was upset that he hadn't stopped when I asked him because he thought he knew what he was doing so he overruled my objection.

We started to get intimate and he kept trying to give me oral sex. I said I didn't want to but he kept pulling my legs down the bed and trying to get them apart. I said I didn't want to because it was too intimate and I didn't feel comfortable with that after he didn't listen to me about the moisturiser. It was hurting my ankles when he kept pulling my legs down so I suggested we have sex doggy style instead since that is his favourite position.

So we started doing that but he pulled my legs down again which meant that the position wasn't right and he slipped out. He spent a bit of time dry-humping me but then must have realised he had slipped out. He started trying to turn me over and pull my legs apart again even though I was saying I didn't want him to go down on me. I was really worried that he was going to force himself on me and this is the part where I get confused. I bolted to the kitchen to get a knife to defend myself with. I can't believe I was so worried about my safety that I was looking for a weapon. On the way I passed the bathroom door so I locked myself in there instead of going to the kitchen.

DH knocked on the door and was calm. He had put his pyjamas on and asked me to put my pyjamas on so we could talk about it. He said he thought I wanted to have oral sex and he didn't understand what was going on. I said I didn't want to and we both went to sleep. We have both got up and gone to work this morning with nothing more said. I have been with DH for 20 years and I don't understand why my reaction was so strong. If I said to him that I was running to the kitchen to get a knife so he couldn't rape me he would be incredibly offended.

If you've got this far then thanks for reading. I don't quite understand what happened last night or what the big picture is.

OP posts:
Happybunny19 · 14/12/2016 19:37

Op for what it's worth I think you know your husband better than anyone posting on here. As long as you feel safe, in control and able to discuss the incident with your husband you should handle this any way you want. I don't think you seem particularly naive, on the contrary, you seem to be clear about what's happening in your relationship.

I hope you are able to get your chat in peace and your husband is able to understand what he did and the affect it's had on you.

tushywush · 14/12/2016 19:49

I think you reaction/the knife was an amalgamation of your feelings towards his control; a kind of "he's pushed it before and I can't trust that he'll hold back" way of thinking.

I know nothing about abuse but I would imagine there is a very very big spectrum between 'happily married' and 'emotionally abused'.

It sounds like he's been used to pushing boundaries and thinks he can get away with it and this time he went too far. That's not to say he will or won't do it again or push further next time... I don't know, none of us could say whether this is the start of more aggressive pushing or a wake up call.

Either way, I think you are right to bring it to his attention, to tell him how he made you feel, and how you want/expect to be treated. I think you then need to figure out what you'll tolerate going forward if he can't meet this. I think some kind of counseling sounds good, would he be receptive to the idea of it?

RubbishMantra · 14/12/2016 20:17

^ Counselling separately, yes for the H to reflect on his behaviour, and for OP if she feels she needs it after such a distressing experience tushy. But as Lweji said, not^ couples counselling together. Counsellors are not infallible, and if the H is a practised manipulator, OP may end up feeling she's in the wrong. After all, sadly, we do live in a patriarchal society, and marital rape was only considered a crime since the very early 1990s.

RubbishMantra · 14/12/2016 20:20

Sorry italics fail. The only word meant to be in italics was in the phrase: not couples counselling together.

Isadora2007 · 14/12/2016 20:48

Hence the reason we see couples where DV is either stated or even suspected separately...
In this scenario the OP has already broached the subject so I'm sure if they went to counselling it would be on the proviso they talked about this- and other- incidents.
Not every controlling person is deliberately manipulating things. Often it can be a repeated pattern unconsciously carried on... or down to previous experiences etc. Counselling can help both parties.

Smartleatherbag · 14/12/2016 20:51

Bloody hell that's awful! No wonder you were scared.
That's sexual assault, followed by gaslighting.

Lweji · 14/12/2016 20:59

Isadora2007

What do you work on with the victim, out of curiosity?

PollytheDolly · 14/12/2016 21:02

Oh I don't know...both pissed up. Consensual sex but non-consensual other parts. Knives, him standing there in his PJs after...all sounds drunken and confused to me.

A sober talk is the first step.

Lweji · 14/12/2016 21:04

Why you shouldn't seek "relationship" counselling, OP.

www.thehotline.org/2014/08/why-we-dont-recommend-couples-counseling-for-abusive-relationships/

"Couples counseling may imply that both partners contribute to the abusive behavior, when the choice to be abusive lies solely with the abusive partner. Focusing on communication or other relationship issues distracts from the abusive behavior, and may actually reinforce it in some cases. Additionally, a therapist may not be aware that abuse is present and inadvertently encourage the abuse to continue or escalate."

You don't have a communication problem, OP. You have a husband problem. He needs to sort himself out. Not the relationship.

You may seek your own counselling to decide how to proceed. Something like the Freedom Programme.
Ask yourself. What would you have done if a near stranger, or a new boyfriend had done the same as your husband?

Isadora2007 · 14/12/2016 21:25

Lweji
Whatever the client wants to work on. Often self esteem and helping them to recognise patterns in their lives that aren't helpful. Sometimes there are issues from childhood or teen years affecting them now. Help them to listen to their own inner voice more...
It varies so much as each person is different.
Fwiw out of 5 clients who have been in DV relationships - two have been male.

Yoshimibattling · 14/12/2016 21:35

I feel strongly that OP should not go to Relate.

OP you might find counselling helpful as an individual in a counselling situation where there is NO agenda to get the couple together at ANY point.

Counselling for you should be completely free of that expectation and should help you decide what you want and what is in your best interests.

Relate counselling left me feeling more depressed and trapped than ever.

Lweji · 14/12/2016 21:55

Isadora2007

Do you see both partners even if there was DV?

Do you have specific domestic abuse training? Through what?

WoIsMe · 15/12/2016 10:01

Update: we managed to find time for a long chat yesterday. DH is appalled and alarmed at my recounting of events. His memory is hazy but he says he really doesn't remember me telling him to stop. When I asked him whether he remembered me saying "You're hurting me" he was really shocked.

He says he will go to counselling if I think it would help. I think in light of the control issues then the Freedom Programme might be a good choice if he could engage with that. He has also said that he won't initiate sex in the immediate future and I have said that I won't have sex with him if he is drunk.

Does this sound like a reasonable resolution?

OP posts:
Lweji · 15/12/2016 10:08

Better than nothing. :)
The Freedom Programme is more for victims, as far as I'm aware, but there may be an option for the abuser.

What has he said about the control issues?

PollytheDolly · 16/12/2016 07:25

Well it's a start and a lot better than denial/head in the sand approach. At least he's up for counselling, that's a big step...if he follows through.

Orangetoffee · 16/12/2016 08:04

he will go to councelling if I think it would help doesn't sound like he thinks he did anything wrong.

No need to answer this question on here but do you really believe that he doesn't remember you asking him to stop and that he was hurting you?

Olympiathequeen · 16/12/2016 10:34

I think it's about time you sat down with him and told him in clear unambiguous terms you are not happy with this 'I know best' attitude. He needs to learn to listen to you or the marriage will spiral downwards.

I don't think he is a potential rapist, just someone with an empathy blockage.

Olympiathequeen · 16/12/2016 10:35

Haha. Didn't read the last update, but sometimes the most obvious thing is to talk to someone.

Goingtobeawesome · 16/12/2016 12:22

How is it that abusive men never remember what they have done ?

Klaphat · 16/12/2016 15:36

I don't think he is a potential rapist, just someone with an empathy blockage.

If your 'empathy blockage', or sense of entitlement to another's body, is such that you risk raping them, then yes, you are a potential rapist. HTH.

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