Can anyone help me work out what happened last night with DH - TW rape

[WoIsMe]

I had too much to drink last night and I'm not sure exactly what happened, I was hoping someone could give me some perspective as I'm on the verge of packing a bag for DH and telling him not to come home tonight.

We were in bed and I asked DH to put some emollient cream on my back because I have eczema there but I can't reach it easily. He couldn't find the cream so he grabbed some Nivea For Men moisturiser. I immediately asked him to stop as it has perfume in but despite my protests he put it all over my back (I was lying on my tummy and he was astride me so I couldn't move out of the way). It burned my eczema so he went to get a Lush massage bar to use instead - I assume for the cocoa butter. I was upset that he hadn't stopped when I asked him because he thought he knew what he was doing so he overruled my objection.

We started to get intimate and he kept trying to give me oral sex. I said I didn't want to but he kept pulling my legs down the bed and trying to get them apart. I said I didn't want to because it was too intimate and I didn't feel comfortable with that after he didn't listen to me about the moisturiser. It was hurting my ankles when he kept pulling my legs down so I suggested we have sex doggy style instead since that is his favourite position.

So we started doing that but he pulled my legs down again which meant that the position wasn't right and he slipped out. He spent a bit of time dry-humping me but then must have realised he had slipped out. He started trying to turn me over and pull my legs apart again even though I was saying I didn't want him to go down on me. I was really worried that he was going to force himself on me and this is the part where I get confused. I bolted to the kitchen to get a knife to defend myself with. I can't believe I was so worried about my safety that I was looking for a weapon. On the way I passed the bathroom door so I locked myself in there instead of going to the kitchen.

DH knocked on the door and was calm. He had put his pyjamas on and asked me to put my pyjamas on so we could talk about it. He said he thought I wanted to have oral sex and he didn't understand what was going on. I said I didn't want to and we both went to sleep. We have both got up and gone to work this morning with nothing more said. I have been with DH for 20 years and I don't understand why my reaction was so strong. If I said to him that I was running to the kitchen to get a knife so he couldn't rape me he would be incredibly offended.

If you've got this far then thanks for reading. I don't quite understand what happened last night or what the big picture is.

'Sparrow, OP was hurting someone. She was hurting herslf, she stayed in bed with an abuser and suggested sex with him.'

Ok...so she's in a terrible situation, in your view?

haystack I've been trying to make sense of your posts because you seem to acknowledge the abuse yet still blame the OP for being in that situation.

There seems to be a complete lack of understanding of how years of creeping escalating control could lead OP to act as she did or even just some empathy for the confusion that the person you should trust more than anyone in your life could hurt you and in such an intimate way. Yet you've been there.

Do you think you are jumping ahead? Because the lessons you have learnt definitely read as blame for where the OP is now. There is a lot of work to leave an abusive situation and regain some sense of self before where you have got to.

OP you sound like you are working through things with your husband. I think maybe your instinctive actions were extreme for a reason that night and to continue thinking about what led you to that place might be more useful than how your husband reacts now.

Darling, my honest , really honest answer from someone who had a similar situation is to ask yourself why you felt scared, if you genuinely believed he was capable of forcing you to do ANYTHING even allow oral, he is not someone to be with. It is a huge red flag for me. I would get into a position where you are separate and have a serious conversation with him about how he fek it was OK to ignore your requests, drink is irrelevant. I think you need to consider if this was a one off. My feeling is that grabbing the knife was instinctual and a reflex action toward a threat. It was not crazy or nuts, you felt threatened and reacted.
No one should make you feel that scared. I suggest talking to rape crisis they have a great helpline that really helped me.

Thanks again to everyone who is posting. It's good for me to hear all sides and I'm not upset by anyone's comments.

I have now had a chance to read replies, what concerns me is the way you make his controlling behaviour OK and give him excuses. You clearly told him you didn't want a bath, he ignored this and not only put the immersion on but ran the bath, you would have been deemed selfish and wasteful not to then have the bath. He got what he wanted by force and you allowed it, do you see how he know thinks this is how best to behave, without probably realising it you are validating this inappropriate behaviour. I did not see this as a kind thing at all. Yet it felt like you wanted to make us believe his intentions were good.
The DVD choice thing is disgusting, I'm sorry but this man sounds like a classic manipulator. I don't know anyone who would not me their children choose the film. Unless they were arguing over it of course.

Hope you are feeling better now, op. I've been reading your thread and I agree with oops that you do seem to validate his behaviour and that you should talk to rape crisis and have some counselling if you feel up to it. I know it probably feels difficult to even start counselling but I'm sure you would really benefit.

Unfortunately we haven't had much time to talk about it as work for both of us is a bit manic at the moment. I didn't realise how much of a history of control there was in our sex life before this. Thinking back there has been unwelcome sexual advances. There is a mismatch in our interest in sex - he wants to have sex more often than I do - which isn't an easy thing to resolve. I'm not sure what the next steps are. I don't think a trial separation would be helpful so it comes down to: do I stay or do I go? Not an easy thing to contemplate with five children as I'm certain I would not be able to manage them on my own.

How often do each of you want to have sex, would you say?

If he has a history of control, no wonder you want less sex with him. Is it usually a pleasurable experience, or do you have to fight his control?

Was it a mutual decision to have five children?

Well, it's good to start thinking about things differently. Maybe now you are aware of it you will be able to change the dynamic, and protect yourself a bit better. NOT BECAUSE IT IS YOUR FAULT or you have invited or condoned it- that is not what I mean at all, just that some plays stop working when you see them for what they are.

Best case scenario, he is a spoilt child who has been trying his luck and can be retrained now you know what he is up to. You might need a friend, counselling, someone in RL to talk to, so you can get support in standing up to him. It's hard to change the habits in a relationship.

Having a different sex drive is probably true for most couples, most of the time. They find ways round it without bullying each other. I hope you find a bit of space to get your head around this, OP.

Was it a mutual decision to have five children?

No I'd imagine she decided on her own and impregnated herself with donor sperm

Or maybe her husband decided on his own and carried the babies himself

What a weird question .

Not necessarily , Kristina. Some men do put pressure on their wives re pregnancies.

Do you believe he can't remember anything?

And some women we've seen it posted many times on MN that the DW/DP is thinking about leaving as they want another child and their SO doesn't. let's face it sometimes partners put pressure on the other to have another child and for many reasons they agree even if they're uncertain/ don't want a child/ don't feel ready for another one yet.

Do you think he planned the bath because he knew what he was going to do with regards to the oral?

I think some of the apologist on here are down playing this based on the fact that it was oral sex. Let's just swap the acts for something else and reconsider. What if he was already giving her oral sex but then tried to have anal sex with her against her will? Does that make it easier to understand? Would you be as quick to excuse? I very much doubt it.

As well as fight or flight, there's freeze. OP's H had already applied something to her back that caused pain, then gripping her ankles painfully and pulling her legs apart, after asking him to STOP doing both things. The freezing part was when OP offered H sex in his "favourite position", to stop him hurting her/ignoring boundaries, and to appease his controlling nature, after being "overruled" several times.

It's just horrible to force an unwanted sexual act on another person.

Do you think he felt entitled to sex because he'd run you an (unwanted) bath and rubbed some (painful) cream into your back, WoIsMe? because he does come across as rather entitled - hey kids, we shall have a fun family day watching movies. But not the ones you want to watch.

I was wondering that myself loopy.

Having initiated the conversation it might be an idea to seek help at relationship counselling.
I work for the Scottish version of relate. We would do an initial meeting and when any incident of DV is mentioned we have a follow up meeting with clients individually. Then we deceive from there if individual appts or couple work is best for going forward.
If he hasn't been deliberately controlling then he should be happy to attend counselling and do all the work necessary to change..,
I wish you well.

Do NOT go to couples counselling with an abuser!!!

He can seek counselling for himself and work on himself.
You need to protect yourself.

It was a mutual decision to have the first four children, the last one was a (welcome) surprise after a condom burst.

He does remember what happened but he doesn't seem to have grasped the severity. He's getting the baby to bed now then we'll have a chance to talk later hopefully.

I honestly don't think he is deliberately abusing or controlling me. I have my own job, my own money, a separate circle of friends to him as well as mutual friends. I decided to do a one day course last month and he was happy for me to do it - he took the kids to see Santa. However his parents have their issues. His dad emotionally abuses his mum and comes across to me as narcissistic. His mum was neglected as a child and I definitely think there was an element of benign neglect to his childhood. So he doesn't have the most constructive example of relationships to follow.

I'm sure some of you will think that I'm being naive but I do think he genuinely loves me and wants me to be happy and feel loved. But clearly there is something amiss and that does need to be dealt with.

Oh and going back to the knife thing - I wasn't actually planning to stab him! My drunken thought process was to keep him away for me. Even at the time I knew that wasn't the best idea, not least the risk of being stabbed myself. I didn't mention in my original post but I first grabbed my hairdryer thinking I could fend him off with it. Definitely bonkers drunken logic as someone said upthread.

Not all controlling abusers keep you in the home and with no friends. Control and abuse take many forms.
He's already overstepped some important boundaries.

And are you sure it was a condom bursting?

No, not bonkers drunken logic, but an instinctive reaction to keep yourself safe. You were in a threatening situation as your husband had made it clear with his actions that he was not taking no for an answer.