Can anyone help me work out what happened last night with DH - TW rape

[WoIsMe]

I had too much to drink last night and I'm not sure exactly what happened, I was hoping someone could give me some perspective as I'm on the verge of packing a bag for DH and telling him not to come home tonight.

We were in bed and I asked DH to put some emollient cream on my back because I have eczema there but I can't reach it easily. He couldn't find the cream so he grabbed some Nivea For Men moisturiser. I immediately asked him to stop as it has perfume in but despite my protests he put it all over my back (I was lying on my tummy and he was astride me so I couldn't move out of the way). It burned my eczema so he went to get a Lush massage bar to use instead - I assume for the cocoa butter. I was upset that he hadn't stopped when I asked him because he thought he knew what he was doing so he overruled my objection.

We started to get intimate and he kept trying to give me oral sex. I said I didn't want to but he kept pulling my legs down the bed and trying to get them apart. I said I didn't want to because it was too intimate and I didn't feel comfortable with that after he didn't listen to me about the moisturiser. It was hurting my ankles when he kept pulling my legs down so I suggested we have sex doggy style instead since that is his favourite position.

So we started doing that but he pulled my legs down again which meant that the position wasn't right and he slipped out. He spent a bit of time dry-humping me but then must have realised he had slipped out. He started trying to turn me over and pull my legs apart again even though I was saying I didn't want him to go down on me. I was really worried that he was going to force himself on me and this is the part where I get confused. I bolted to the kitchen to get a knife to defend myself with. I can't believe I was so worried about my safety that I was looking for a weapon. On the way I passed the bathroom door so I locked myself in there instead of going to the kitchen.

DH knocked on the door and was calm. He had put his pyjamas on and asked me to put my pyjamas on so we could talk about it. He said he thought I wanted to have oral sex and he didn't understand what was going on. I said I didn't want to and we both went to sleep. We have both got up and gone to work this morning with nothing more said. I have been with DH for 20 years and I don't understand why my reaction was so strong. If I said to him that I was running to the kitchen to get a knife so he couldn't rape me he would be incredibly offended.

If you've got this far then thanks for reading. I don't quite understand what happened last night or what the big picture is.

Crikey, I headed out to my DS's school nativity play and came back to find 50 messages. Thank you very much to everyone who has taken time to reply. I will read through the posts now and respond.

Husky - hang on, you read an account of a man trying to force a woman's legs apart while she says no, and the OP getting a knife to defend herself is the scariest part to you? So sexual assault= big drunken mess and not scary; self-defence=scary. I really hope this is a minority view

Of course her DH was way out of line. I am not defending his brutish behaviour, one little bit. But, they were both pissed as farts and she can't remember half of it. She went on to have full sex with him (her suggestion of doggy style). I would imagine, that if he had wanted to rape her, he would have. I don't know many women who could overpower a man. He didn't do that. He let her leave the room. Whilst he was massively in the wrong to be so persistent, yes, I do find it bizarre that she considered stabbing him. The whole relationship sounds fucked up, tbh.

My DH and I have had many rows, I've never thought about getting a knife from the kitchen. Never.

I fear there is a huge back story here (no pun intended).

Okay I'm definitely not a troll! I have read a lot of posts on the relationships board and I have observed that other people can often shed a lot of light on the OP's concerns from their own past experience. That was my reason for posting, as I said in my original post, to get some perspective. I don't think my DH is abusive, he genuinely wants me to be happy and feel loved. But that doesn't mean that he always treats me as I want to be treated. I'm sure I'm exactly the same to him, we all make mistakes.

I do think that DH tends to be controlling. It is with good intentions but he does tend to steamroller on with things. For example last night he suggested I put the immersion heater on so I could have a bath. I said I didn't want to have a bath. But he put the immersion heater on anyway and ran a bath for me. So he wanted to do something nice for me, by giving me a change to have a relaxing bath, but it wasn't something I actually wanted to do if that makes sense. He'll do similar things with the DCs for example having a home cinema day but DH chooses the movie and won't let the kids choose. I am assertive on my own behalf and on the behalf of the DCs when this happens.

With regard to suggesting sex to him, at that point I was still happy to have sex with him, just not oral sex. I don't think he knew that the Nivea would be painful but I am upset that he didn't listen to me when I asked him to stop. He did not rape me although he did try to sexually assault me. I ran because I thought he was going to sexually assault me. I have no idea what prompted me to go for a knife. That is really weird because I am not at all violent. I can only assume it was the fact that a clear boundary was being crossed and so fight-or-flight came into play. I would not accept him assaulting me - drunk or otherwise. That would be the end of our relationship.

I think the big problem here is the alcohol. He was too drunk to pay proper attention to what I was saying. I had enough to drink that I don't feel that I can trust my instincts and actions last night. Hopefully we'll be able to talk things through tonight but I want to get it straight in my own head first.

Husky the whole knife thing is part of what has me so upset and confused. This is my husband of 20 years and we have had sex thousands of times. But on the other hand, if anyone was trying to sexually assault me then I would run and I would fight to avoid it. I got beaten up once when I was a teenager and at the time I didn't shout for help, I didn't try to run, and I didn't fight back. That isn't going to happen to me again.

The running the bath thing is really weird I have to say. Did you end up having the bath?

I do think that DH tends to be controlling. It is with good intentions but he does tend to steamroller on with things.

First of all, remove from your head any thoughts of abusive men being ogres. They are not all wife beaters.
Whatever good intentions he may have, he is disregarding your feelings and the children's.
You are assertive, which is a good thing, but that's another myth, that abused women are not assertive or strong.

And he did sexually assault you, drunk or not. Drink can excuse much and it just seems that he had less inhibitions than usual, but he still disregards you when you say no in daily life. So, as usual, alcohol doesn't cause anything, it just shows people for what they are.

It's up to you whether to give him another chance or not. Next time he could be (or pretend to be) more drunk, use more force and actually force himself on you. What, then?

You do need to sit down and have a proper chat about boundaries. Almost every mistake I have ever made in life, is when pissed!

I think the big problem here is the alcohol. He was too drunk to pay proper attention to what I was saying

Let's hope this is the case. You've been with him 20 years, you know him better than anyone on here.

How scary for you! I think I'd be writing down how I felt, how scared and upset I was, how confused that my DH of 20yrs would hurt me, repeatedly ignore what I am saying, and do things to me that I did not want to happen. That I was so scared I felt I had no choice but to run and hide, and be ready to defend myself.

I'd ask him to explain what he thought happened last night from his point of view, then give him the letter with your account, and see what he says. I'd also point out that his overriding the wishes of everyone else in the house is abusive, even if he thinks it's ok because he wants the best for you.

Good luck OP.

I don't think he tried to sexually assault you intentionally, but if that's how you view it you need to speak with him. You were both drunk, and you decided to have sex with him anyway, which I think might send mixed messages. Have a talk. Hopefully this is a one off situation, and you'll both stay sober for a while. Hope you feel better soon.

'I don't think he tried to sexually assault you intentionally, but if that's how you view it you need to speak with him. You were both drunk, and you decided to have sex with him anyway, which I think might send mixed messages.'

BOLLOCKS.

There were no mixed messages. The OP made it very very clear she didn't want oral sex. The fact that she consented to vaginal sex does not change that. A person does not assault another person 'unintentionally' - he did not 'accidentally' try to pry her legs open while she protested.

When he tried to make you have a bath when you didn't want it - was he drink then?

Or was he drink when he made the children watch a movie they didn't want to as a "treat" ?

Sorry I mean drunk '

What sparrow hawk said.

He was sexually assaulting her by pinning her down for oral sex against her clearly expressed non consent. She got away and had a fleeting moment of considering physical self defence before actually locking herself in the bathroom away from a man who habitually ignores her wishes.

There is one criminal here, and it isn't the OP.

OP, are you sure when he turned you over that he wasn't just trying to go into you. Was his head at the level of your stomach or your face at that point?

However, the other examples eg. the bath are definitely weird. Is this recent? Has he been like this for years?

'OP, are you sure when he turned you over that he wasn't just trying to go into you. Was his head at the level of your stomach or your face at that point?'

What a moronic question.

Not to mention the application of the cream against her wishes, which was also a physical assault.

Op had an instinctive fight or flight response to being assaulted, fight transmuted to flight, and she saved herself, frankly.

Op, if you want to pack his bags, I for one would support that.

OP , I understand why you came here to ask for help but sometimes it's the worst thing you can do for yourself TBH. There are some posters who forget that this isn't a movie or game and get carried away with their advice. Some also just hate men. So please take the comments here with a pinch of salt. I'm not minimising your emotions , just saying to be weary of the posters who will be telling you how you feel or should feel.

It sounds like this is the first time something like this happened but you know your husband best. Do you think he wanted to hurt you? Can you still trust him?

Have a chat today and see how he responds - that should tell you what you need to know.

Goodluck x

Some (posters) also just hate men.

What absolute rubbish. And if you read the full thread you will see that this isn't the first time that something like this has happened. The OPs DH has a history of ignoring his family's wishes and riding roughshod over them.

I got one don't hate men, I think men are generally kind lovely and gentle, which is why I'm disturbed by a man sexually assaulting his wife. Women who think this sort of behaviour is normal are the ones who have horribly low expectations of men.

I for one

I hate men who hurt their wives and try to force their legs apart for a sexual act, yes. Why don't you hate those kinds of men, spice?

You don't have to hate men to think forcing someone's legs apart is pretty fucking grim. If you think hating men is the only reason you'd think this behaviour is unacceptable you need to take a look at yourself.

A sexual assault like all crimes requires intent. Unless we are saying a man married to a woman for 20 years suddenly decides he wants to rape her then I'm just saying there could be alternative reasons what happened, one of which is clearly that they were both drunk. Obviously I'm not condoning him physically trying to pry her legs apart when she said no, but as someone tried to suggest up thread he may not have been continuing to attempt oral sex post his doggy slippage. Some people will always deliberately misinterpret the other points of view though, and can be quick to arrive at the worst possible conclusion.

There are no "buts" to prising a woman's legs open.

Why on earth would anyone think that is ok or needs interpretation, discussion, benefit of the doubt or is in any way grey?

He intended to pry her legs apart without her consent and against her wishes. Being drunk is not an excuse for his behaviour, just as its not an excuse for stealing or hitting someone when drunk.