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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Can anyone help me work out what happened last night with DH - TW rape

170 replies

WoIsMe · 12/12/2016 10:57

I had too much to drink last night and I'm not sure exactly what happened, I was hoping someone could give me some perspective as I'm on the verge of packing a bag for DH and telling him not to come home tonight.

We were in bed and I asked DH to put some emollient cream on my back because I have eczema there but I can't reach it easily. He couldn't find the cream so he grabbed some Nivea For Men moisturiser. I immediately asked him to stop as it has perfume in but despite my protests he put it all over my back (I was lying on my tummy and he was astride me so I couldn't move out of the way). It burned my eczema so he went to get a Lush massage bar to use instead - I assume for the cocoa butter. I was upset that he hadn't stopped when I asked him because he thought he knew what he was doing so he overruled my objection.

We started to get intimate and he kept trying to give me oral sex. I said I didn't want to but he kept pulling my legs down the bed and trying to get them apart. I said I didn't want to because it was too intimate and I didn't feel comfortable with that after he didn't listen to me about the moisturiser. It was hurting my ankles when he kept pulling my legs down so I suggested we have sex doggy style instead since that is his favourite position.

So we started doing that but he pulled my legs down again which meant that the position wasn't right and he slipped out. He spent a bit of time dry-humping me but then must have realised he had slipped out. He started trying to turn me over and pull my legs apart again even though I was saying I didn't want him to go down on me. I was really worried that he was going to force himself on me and this is the part where I get confused. I bolted to the kitchen to get a knife to defend myself with. I can't believe I was so worried about my safety that I was looking for a weapon. On the way I passed the bathroom door so I locked myself in there instead of going to the kitchen.

DH knocked on the door and was calm. He had put his pyjamas on and asked me to put my pyjamas on so we could talk about it. He said he thought I wanted to have oral sex and he didn't understand what was going on. I said I didn't want to and we both went to sleep. We have both got up and gone to work this morning with nothing more said. I have been with DH for 20 years and I don't understand why my reaction was so strong. If I said to him that I was running to the kitchen to get a knife so he couldn't rape me he would be incredibly offended.

If you've got this far then thanks for reading. I don't quite understand what happened last night or what the big picture is.

OP posts:
EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 07:01

If you do not intend to victim blame, do not use the odious and erroneous phrase "mixed messages"

TheSparrowhawk · 13/12/2016 07:10

So are you saying that the OP was assaulted because she wasn't clear enough? That she caused the assault?

pklme · 13/12/2016 07:16

Haystack
That is a hindsight thing to say, really. In the moment, we rarely fully understand the implications. We compromise, or don't react quickly enough. Then later wish we'd handled something differently. That doesn't mean we could have behaved differently, or that we were too afraid to behave differently.

I think you are victim blaming too, because you are saying if she did something different it wouldn't have happened.

ptumbi · 13/12/2016 07:28

OP - he ignored you when you asked him to stop applying cream that would not help, and may actually burn.
He ignored you when you asked him to stop with the Oral sex.
He ignored your wishes with sex
he ignored you when you said you didn't want a bath.

That is in the space of a few days.

In 20 years there must be hundreds of occasions where he has ignored your wishes.

He is a controller. You do as he wishes, even tho you don't want it.

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 08:15

That's what I'm trying to say, OP does as he wishes even though she doesn't want to. That's mixed messages,instead of an absolute clear "No, piss off. I've already told you, i do not want xyz and that's final.Suggesting doggy after he'd already assaulted her with the cream, then ignored her not wanting oral. He should have been sent to the settees from the start, that would give him a clear message alright. Then the following day "you assaulted me last night. What do you intend to do about YOUR problem".

MrsBertBibby · 13/12/2016 08:17

A sexual assault like all crimes requires intent.

That's quite amisrepresentation of the law.

Loads of crimes do not require intent (recklessness is enough for most, many are strict liability, ie state of mind is irrelevant)

Rape and sexual assault require that the touching or penetration be intentional, and accompanied by a lack of reasonable belief that the victim consented.

Thus if someone lurches into you on the tube and brushes your boobs, that isn't sexual assault as the touching was not intentional, but if some letch at a party thinks your sparkly top means your boobs are there for all comers to grope and piles in, then it is.

EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 08:48

Yy Bert.

He intentionally continued to apply cream against her wishes, he intentionally moved her legs about in bed against her wishes. There is intent here.

Haystack

You. Are. Still. Victim Blaming.

There's no "she should have"

Only "he shouldn't have"

Goddess.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 13/12/2016 08:53

Your reaction was strong because he didn't listen to you about the cream and then didn't listen to you about not wanting oral sex.

TheSparrowhawk · 13/12/2016 09:23

'That's what I'm trying to say, OP does as he wishes even though she doesn't want to. That's mixed messages,instead of an absolute clear "No, piss off. I've already told you, i do not want xyz and that's final.'

So, her saying no and telling him to stop wasn't enough?

EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 09:32

Saying no and telling him to stop is not enough but having a fleeting thought about self defence against a man who has already physically dominated her twice against her wishes is bonkers, Sparrowhawk.

Obviously.

TheSparrowhawk · 13/12/2016 09:34

Oh I see. So she has to get it exactly right, or she's the one in the wrong. The person who assaulted her is just confused of course.

ageingrunner · 13/12/2016 09:40

I think you need to leave him anyway, from what you've described, op. The added danger for yourself now is that you could lose control and do something you really regret to him. You don't want to injure/kill him and end up in prison do you? Sad

EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 09:45

Ageing

A fleeting thought about self defence that lasted a couple of steps after op's flight from the bedroom is not going to end up with her in prison

If she ever grabs a knife against a man who shows no compunction about physically hurting and dominating her, sadly I suspect she would be the one hurt by the knife.

ageingrunner · 13/12/2016 09:54

Yes you're right of course Even. It would just be shit for the op to lose her freedom over her abusive arsehole husband, when she could leave him and live the rest of her life her own way, instead of his. I don't blame her for thinking of a knife btw after this incident, especially with the long history of abuse she has suffered.

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 10:09

Even, he shouldn't have forced the cream on her and he shouldn't have ignored her wishes with sex. OP, after these acts shouldn't have then suggested doggy just to pacify the bully.

TheSparrowhawk · 13/12/2016 10:14

'OP, after these acts shouldn't have then suggested doggy just to pacify the bully'

Are you implying that they are both in some way to blame?

Lweji · 13/12/2016 10:16

OP, after these acts shouldn't have then suggested doggy just to pacify the bully.

You clearly know very little about abuse.

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 10:24

Well, what would you suggest was the best course of action following the first assault (the cream) ?

TheSparrowhawk · 13/12/2016 10:25

I would suggest the best course of action would be to do as she pleased as long as she wasn't hurting anyone. Which is exactly what she did. If it's the case that she offered sex as a way of appeasing a bully then that's absolutely awful and I would advise her to divorce asap.

ageingrunner · 13/12/2016 11:09

It's not the first assault though is it? They've been married 20 years and he has been controlling throughout.

EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 11:18

Op has stated that she was prepared to proceed with sex, but not oral sex, as she finds oral sex more intimate and wasn't comfortable with that intimacy after the cream incident.

This absolutely does not send a "mixed message" about her lack of consent to oral sex.

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 11:36

Sparrow, OP was hurting someone. She was hurting herslf, she stayed in bed with an abuser and suggested sex with him.

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 11:41

Actually Even, you are right. It's not mixed messages, it's a clear message. Force cream on me which burns and I'll stay in bed with you and have sex. You win, no mixed message there.

EvenTheWind · 13/12/2016 11:57

Excellent. You have moved from victim blaming to sexual assault apologist.

What is wrong with you, haystack, that you read about a woman physically and sexually assaulted by a man and you want to make it her fault?

haystack10 · 13/12/2016 12:05

OP, I'm very sorry that your H treated you this way. I was an abuse victim in a 16 year marriage. I finally got help, received 2 years psychotherapy which enabled me to escape that marriage. Psychotherapy taught me to avert abusive situations quickly, to not endanger myself. I've since happily remarried and had more children. I wish you security and happiness in whichever path you take.

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